We need to start lobbying for point system reform

[MallardSX2]

There are simple solutions for reducing point creep (at least in CO).

Any A list tag takes your points even if it’s a LO voucher. That one’s gonna be huge.

I couldn't agree more but it's hard to do that in Colorado when even the people on the draw process working group arnt hardly in favor of giving points up for licenses. lol

Everyone (which happens to be mostly residents) on that draw process working group are just looking out for themselves and not even trying to accomplish what the group is actually being asked to do.

But when I bring that up, I'm just a disgruntled NR. lol Whatever.

Tell me one thing they have suggested that will comply with "Their Vision". All of their meetings they had were a disorganized cluster-F waste of time.

 

[BuckeyeRifleman]

Hey OP, if this is your takeaway from this thread you need to take a long look in the mirror and at how you carry yourself. You run away when your post history is brought up, then go to the other forum and selectively share the facts to make yourself feel better.

I remember when you did that with your cow elk hunting story too.

If you think anything said in this thread has been outside of societal norms, please go outside and interact with the real world. When you post online, it is permanent. When you post dumb things, people remember.

I know exactly what this post is and what you are trying to do. I wasn’t gonna give you the satisfaction, but I’ll just leave with this.

I’ve been around the forum game for a long time. 30k posts or some sort and 20 years of playing this game various places. In that time I’ve gotten exactly one warning anywhere and I’ve never been banned.

I’ve never felt the need to comb through someone’s years old unrelated threads, some of which discuss personal matters, because I happened to disagree on an issue.

I never felt the need to search the internet to stalk someone on another forum to try and goat them into a personal attack.

In a thread discussing point creep of all things.

I know many people here don’t like some of my opinions. That’s fine, that’s their right. Somehow though plenty of people seem to find it interesting and insightful as well, at least according to my reaction score.

You are certainly correct, there are a few people who need to look in the mirror at their conduct.

 

[WTFJohn]

I know exactly what this post is and what you are trying to do. I wasn’t gonna give you the satisfaction, but I’ll just leave with this.

I’ve been around the forum game for a long time. 30k posts or some sort and 20 years of playing this game various places. In that time I’ve gotten exactly one warning anywhere and I’ve never been banned.

I’ve never felt the need to comb through someone’s years old unrelated threads, some of which discuss personal matters, because I happened to disagree on an issue.

I never felt the need to search the internet to stalk someone on another forum to try and goat them into a personal attack.

In a thread discussing point creep of all things.

I know many people here don’t like some of my opinions. That’s fine, that’s their right. Somehow though plenty of people seem to find it interesting and insightful as well, at least according to my reaction score.

You are certainly correct, there are a few people who need to look in the mirror at their conduct.

No one had to comb through your posts. It took me about 3 seconds to remember exactly who you were, I'm sure I'm not the only one. It is no one's responsibility but yours as to what gets posted under your user name. If you're not happy with things you've said here, go back and delete the thread (or learn to think through your thoughts before posting them). Or just don't post personal shit. I brought up none of that, only hunting related things on a hunting website.

Congrats on being the age of an adult, I think I was on a forum first in 2002 or so and have never been banned either. I wasn't trying to goad you into anything, nor was what I said anything different than what I would tell you in person if we ever met. You should layer your reaction score like armor to thicken up that skin.

And don't flatter yourself on the 'stalking', you use the same screen name and posted both topics to General Discussion on the respective sites, literally the same day you 'left' here.

No one is asking you to leave, that is a decision you're making yourself. If you're feeling run off because of your opinions, maybe reflect on why members here may feel this is a disingenuous conversation happening in bad faith. (Hint: it's having multi-page threads year after year where you take up opinions opposed to those you held prior)

This thread should die.

 

[FredIII]

The most common point made here is that if it was much more difficult to put in then the "guys " That really want to hunt would have a better chance of getting a tag. LOL. Muddy the water is a piss poor strategy.

If you don't like point system just buy tags from landowners or hit the raffles super hard. Crying about how much more you want a tag than so and so who doesn't do his homework is silly.
To the point made about buying preference points and not using them! Well if a guy buys a 100 years worth of points and never try's to get a tag he's in no way affecting your odds that is science my friend pure science.
Only thing I care about when buying points is that at some point I will have a chance to draw, I want as many of my tickets in as many hats as possible too my liking and its all I can afford. lol. I actually feel like my points are my property and I should be able to will them to anyone I want to in the event of my death. ( imagine the butt hurt if little Johnny got a tag with his daddy's 45 bull points).

 

[Rich M]

Points are not the problem. Too many people are the problem. It’s too easy to apply.

I’ve said this before, it’s a simple fix, front all tag and license money at the time of application and no credit cards. Just like anything else in life, you shouldn’t apply with money you don’t have. Draw odds would dramatically improve instantly.

I like this one.

Lotsa entitled whiners. I should get what i want talk. The reason we have points and point creep is cause we have more hunters than tags.

Then add all the guys applying for 3-5-7 states cause they’ll die if they cant hunt somewhere.

It is pure math. Too many folks trying to hunt too few critters.

The solution is to be patient. There is no good fix that isnt gonna screw someone over. And only folks without points are whining right now.

Fwiw, could make NR who shoots a buck/bull/whatever wait 3 yrs before applying again. Res wait a year to apply again. If you dont kill, can apply every year. Might convince some folks to stop shooting little ones.

 

[roadrunner]

Fwiw, could make NR who shoots a buck/bull/whatever wait 3 yrs before applying again. Res wait a year to apply again. If you dont kill, can apply every year. Might convince some folks to stop shooting little ones.

Better to have the waiting period regardless if whether you kill or not and completely remove those who draw from the equation for a 2,3, or 5 years.

 

[Rich M]

Better to have the waiting period regardless if whether you kill or not and completely remove those who draw from the equation for a 2,3, or 5 years.

It would be easier to track that way but might cause more folks to shoot dinks, knowing they have to sit the next couple years out.

Amazing it has come to this point.

 

[roadrunner]

It would be easier to track that way but might cause more folks to shoot dinks, knowing they have to sit the next couple years out.

Amazing it has come to this point.

The people that will take just any legal buck or bull will do that anyway if they can hunt every year. The ones only concerned with mature/trophy class will normally go home empty handed.

 

[Hnthrdr]

I like this one.

Lotsa entitled whiners. I should get what i want talk. The reason we have points and point creep is cause we have more hunters than tags.

Then add all the guys applying for 3-5-7 states cause they’ll die if they cant hunt somewhere.

It is pure math. Too many folks trying to hunt too few critters.

The solution is to be patient. There is no good fix that isnt gonna screw someone over. And only folks without points are whining right now.

Fwiw, could make NR who shoots a buck/bull/whatever wait 3 yrs before applying again. Res wait a year to apply again. If you dont kill, can apply every year. Might convince some folks to stop shooting little ones.

I could get on board with some of this but definitely not up to waiting years to hunt my home state of Co…

 

[BluMtn]

What irritates me is I live in Washington and I am at 27 years trying to get a branched antler tag for elk. The part that irritates me is I have friends that are on their 3rd or 4th tag in less than 15 years. Once you are drawn in Washington it just gets easier after every tag. I know a gentleman that just drew his fourth tag this year after drawing his third tag last year and that is in a unit that has 3 tags given out.

 

[Rich M]

The people that will take just any legal buck or bull will do that anyway if they can hunt every year. The ones only concerned with mature/trophy class will normally go home empty handed.

Right. That was why i thot that if you shoot something you wait a couple of years for your next tag. Trophy hunters can hunt every year til they shoot one. Seems like a win-win. Be more bucks running around if there were consequences to shooting stuff.

 

[roadrunner]

Right. That was why i thot that if you shoot something you wait a couple of years for your next tag. Trophy hunters can hunt every year til they shoot one. Seems like a win-win. Be more bucks running around if there were consequences to shooting stuff.

As long as good management is being done and not ego fulfillment by being selective. A mature animal isn't a P&Y or B&C animal.

I like UT's approach. Waiting period regardless of filling a tag. If someone is a halfway decent hunter, they'll fill their tag with a mature animal.

 

[CorbLand]

As long as good management is being done and not ego fulfillment by being selective. A mature animal isn't a P&Y or B&C animal.

I like UT's approach. Waiting period regardless of filling a tag. If someone is a halfway decent hunter, they'll fill their tag with a mature animal.

That’s only on limited entry and those tags are basically once in a lifetime anyways.

Anyone that thinks adding waiting periods to general season or the like will cause people to be more selective is mistaken. People wait 3-5 years here for a ALW tag and still shoot the first two point they can find.

Put tags in peoples pockets, let them hunt and shoot whatever animal they want.

 

[NRA4LIFE]

What irritates me is I live in Washington and I am at 27 years trying to get a branched antler tag for elk. The part that irritates me is I have friends that are on their 3rd or 4th tag in less than 15 years. Once you are drawn in Washington it just gets easier after every tag. I know a gentleman that just drew his fourth tag this year after drawing his third tag last year and that is in a unit that has 3 tags given out.

Same here. 20+ years in elk, deer, moose and sheep and have never drawn an antlered permit. A couple cow tags and that's it. I drew a cow moose in 2016 and filled it. 24 cow tags that year if I recall, this year 7 I think. I just brush it off now and go hunt for whatever I can. I'm getting too old to care too much. I always have my land in MO to fall back on to kill a pile of WT's.

 

[roadrunner]

That’s only on limited entry and those tags are basically once in a lifetime anyways.

Anyone that thinks adding waiting periods to general season or the like will cause people to be more selective is mistaken. People wait 3-5 years here for a ALW tag and still shoot the first two point they can find.

Put tags in peoples pockets, let them hunt and shoot whatever animal they want.

That's kind of the point to a waiting period and overhauling a point system. We're talking about "limited entry" hunts, aka, quality/high demand hunts.

A waiting period still puts tags in people's pockets, it's just not the same ones year in and year out...

 

[danhuntingmi]

Respectfully, I have to disagree with op. These facts don't agree. It's literally impossible for point collectors to cause point creep. Outside of some sort of really weird point scheme, only people actually applying to go hunting cause point creep, which are the opposite of the people discussed.

I also disagree with the solution. Apparently, if someone accidentally misses the application period they lose all their points? How is that fair? You're literally trying to play gotcha with other hunters.

The root problem is demand exceeds supply followed by some people making up reasons their demand is special and trying to get special treatment.

 

[Weldor]

It would be easier to track that way but might cause more folks to shoot dinks, knowing they have to sit the next couple years out.

Amazing it has come to this point.

Your right, seems like once they get the tag anything goes, spikes, rags, etc. I have seen it happen in a unit the past 15 or so years. It used to be managed as a trophy unit very few tags. Nice bulls came out of there. Then G&F opened it up to over a thousand tags for the money. Now guys are rifle hunting the rut and killing dinks. The bulls don't get a chance to mature like they used to. All over a $ bucks sad.

 

[CorbLand]

That's kind of the point to a waiting period and overhauling a point system. We're talking about "limited entry" hunts, aka, quality/high demand hunts.

A waiting period still puts tags in people's pockets, it's just not the same ones year in and year out...

I guess I missed where this was specific to Limited Entry type hunts. If this is specific to Limited Entry only hunts, then a waiting period is kind of pointless. Like I said, many of the LE tags in Utah are basically once in a lifetime at this point and if you are getting in at the ground floor, well thank you for the yearly donation to the continued management of wildlife in the state of Utah.

The problem is that most people here are not trying to solve the problem of people not getting tags, they are trying to solve the problem of there not being the quality of animal they want, while trying to disguise it as trying to help people get tags.

Some people get lucky and draw every year. Some dont. Sometimes life sucks but it does go on.

 

[roadrunner]

I guess I missed where this was specific to Limited Entry type hunts. If this is specific to Limited Entry only hunts, then a waiting period is kind of pointless. Like I said, many of the LE tags in Utah are basically once in a lifetime at this point and if you are getting in at the ground floor, well thank you for the yearly donation to the continued management of wildlife in the state of Utah.

The problem is that most people here are not trying to solve the problem of people not getting tags, they are trying to solve the problem of there not being the quality of animal they want, while trying to disguise it as trying to help people get tags.

Some people get lucky and draw every year. Some dont. Sometimes life sucks but it does go on.

And I suppose I missed where this was specific to UT limited entry hunts only. In states where they offer more than a couple dozen tags for hunts, it could have an impact, not much, but a little.

The intent to a point system is to "reward" those who apply the longest without drawing. Forced sit out allows people who apply the longest a similar advantage, but no guarentee. And, just because "X" amount are sitting out doesn't necessarily mean there will be a sudden influx of applicants.

As far as life sucking, yeah, pretty irritating when you see people posting they drew 5 or 6 tags for different species in the same state where you can draw more than one species...

 

[CorbLand]

And I suppose I missed where this was specific to UT limited entry hunts only. In states where they offer more than a couple dozen tags for hunts, it could have an impact, not much, but a little.

The intent to a point system is to "reward" those who apply the longest without drawing. Forced sit out allows people who apply the longest a similar advantage, but no guarentee. And, just because "X" amount are sitting out doesn't necessarily mean there will be a sudden influx of applicants.

As far as life sucking, yeah, pretty irritating when you see people posting they drew 5 or 6 tags for different species in the same state where you can draw more than one species...

I didnt say it was specific to Utah. I am using Utah as an example of the proposed solution not solving the problem like people think it will. Utah has a waiting period, guess what, people still arent drawing tags and are complaining about the same things.

Utah general season does not have a waiting period, yet people are drawing tags every 3-8 years (for ALW) and the herds are not any better. People are not any happier. Even with waiting that long, people still shoot the first deer they find.

You said that you liked the waiting period that Utah has and I am saying that the waiting period doesnt solve anything.

People dont hold out because it took them XX years to draw, they hold out because that upper quality animal exists. (Those upper quality animals generally exist in those units that take longer to draw) Make someone wait 15 years and tell them that the biggest deer in the unit is 150 and they will shoot the first decent 3-4 point that walks out. Make someone wait 5 years but tell them there is half dozen 200s and a dozen 180s. They will hold out.

If one of the most irritating things in your life is that people draw more tags than you do, can we have a phone call so we can talk about the choices you made? That sounds really nice to be honest.