We need to start lobbying for point system reform

[WRO]

I realize you are asking a loaded question. There is not a perfect solution. Just merely my opinion, but something like a 4x scope maximum and no exposed turrets or bdc reticles is where I’d start.

I know some will say nothing will stop guys from still slinging lead 800+ yards with a 4x scope but I’m of the belief that most hunters are ethical humans and would keep it reasonable.

Heck, imo even a 3x9 max would probably save some animals. It wasn’t that long ago when that’s about all we had. I know back in those days I wouldn’t even think of taking a 400+ yard shot. Now, I don’t even think twice about such a shot with the gear we have. That’s a chip shot. You can’t tell me that kind of advantage hasn’t punched more tags in recent years.

I’ll do it with a 4x scope and a reticle..

The rangefinder is the biggest single game changer in the last 2 decades in western hunting.

 

[Extrapale]

Yep, all the guys who got in the points game early and drew now realize they have to wait a long time for another crack at it. So, lobby to change the rules to get it sooner. Typical.

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk

 

[Buckshotaz]

I have an idea to fix the problem. No non-resident hunters. If you want to hunt a state, move there

 

[RyanT26]

But for the average guy that shoots a box of ammo a year that has a scope they can EASILY dial to 852 yds after accurately ranging it is....

Just because you can dial to 850 doesn’t mean you can make the shot. I can dial the 2000 yards it don’t mean shit.
You can set the pins on your bow sight out to 250 doesn’t mean you can make the shot.

 

[Rifleman86]

I have an idea to fix the problem. No non-resident hunters. If you want to hunt a state, move there

Then 20 years later you can complain about all the new hunters in your state, start a hunting podcast complaining about hunting podcasts, and shame people for their grip and grins! Brilliant…

 

[deertrout]

I wish we could solve the points issue, too. I gained an interest in western hunting at the worst possible time in history. I'm at an age where I basically will never have a chance to hunt certain bucket list places while I'm physically able to do so because I missed a bus I didn't know I should be getting on 25 years ago.

Random draws are the only way I could get a tag to some of these prestigious units while my knees still work. Getting a tag in our (Michigan's) elk draw is basically winning the lottery. I doubt I'll ever get one, but I know several people who have, so there is always a sliver of hope. It's possible. Going to a preference point system for one of our elk tags would take away that possibility. But for our bear tags, preference points make more sense.

I think we need a hybrid system. After a certain point where it takes greater than, let's say, 20 points to draw a unit, pref points go out the window and the unit becomes a random draw.

 

[MuleyFever]

Then 20 years later you can complain about all the new hunters in your state, start a hunting podcast complaining about hunting podcasts, and shame people for their grip and grins! Brilliant…

Don't forget asking non residents to help fight off the next anti hunting agenda.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

You can set the pins on your bow sight out to 250 doesn’t mean you can make the shot.

I see your point, but as a practical matter, your sight will hit your arrow before you get your pin to 250 yds. Most compound bows shooting hunting weight arrows max out around 150 yds (which is still way further than anyone should be flinging an arrow at a live animal). I assume there's a similar point with rifles where the line of departure is so steep that the barrel would physically obstruct the shooter's line of sight.

 

[MuleyFever]

I have yet to pull an antelope tag in NM. I pulled an antelope tag in UT last year because of points.

Utah has the best system for points. They just don't offer enough tags...

The system in Utah is a good compromise. Half the tags go into a random draw. My wife just drew a Henry's tag with 3 points. Three years ago I drew it with 12 points and she drew an LE elk tag with 9 points. It rewards a few top point holders with a tag and everyone else gets a chance. I honestly don't think straight random is the best option. You could literally never draw while supporting the departments budget for years. I think there should be some reward for time in the system.

 

[HingleMcCringleberry]

You could literally never draw while supporting the departments budget for years.

Put in for units with lower demand and high odds?

 

[NRA4LIFE]

Here in WA, there's no preference points, just bonus points I think you call them. I have 20+ points in all quality/OIL categories and have never drawn one. You can put in your whole life and never draw anything worth a damned.

 

[MuleyFever]

Put in for units with lower demand and high odds?

We all have our strategies.

 

[Rifleman86]

Don't forget asking non residents to help fight off the next anti hunting agenda.

Yup, oh and while you are at it donate to RMEF, TRCP, BHA, etc etc.

Oh but you think our Ponzi scheme for allocating 10% of tags that cost 4000% more should be changed? You’re not complaining about the cost part or the 10% part, just the Ponzi scheme?

You should be thankful we let you play it at all ya freeloader!

 

[roadrunner]

I get you believe that's some earth shattering revelation, however the condescending tone really isn't necessary.

Pot, meet kettle.

Good luck this season. I hope you drew some good tags.

 

[roadrunner]

Just because you can dial to 850 doesn’t mean you can make the shot. I can dial the 2000 yards it don’t mean shit.
You can set the pins on your bow sight out to 250 doesn’t mean you can make the shot.

I agree. The novice hunter trying to get into long range shooting/hunting thinks they can. Part of the problem with people that have never put in for premium tags suddenly are.

 

[MattB]

Just because you can dial to 850 doesn’t mean you can make the shot. I can dial the 2000 yards it don’t mean shit.
You can set the pins on your bow sight out to 250 doesn’t mean you can make the shot.

Thankfully you can’t actually do that.

 

[Nick87]

If you run the math on high demand units with a bonus point system, your odds of drawing can actually decrease.

Can you elaborate on this? Don't get me wrong I prefer no points. Btw you are missed on the other site.

 

[SDHNTR]

I wish we could solve the points issue, too. I gained an interest in western hunting at the worst possible time in history. I'm at an age where I basically will never have a chance to hunt certain bucket list places while I'm physically able to do so because I missed a bus I didn't know I should be getting on 25 years ago.

Random draws are the only way I could get a tag to some of these prestigious units while my knees still work. Getting a tag in our (Michigan's) elk draw is basically winning the lottery. I doubt I'll ever get one, but I know several people who have, so there is always a sliver of hope. It's possible. Going to a preference point system for one of our elk tags would take away that possibility. But for our bear tags, preference points make more sense.

I think we need a hybrid system. After a certain point where it takes greater than, let's say, 20 points to draw a unit, pref points go out the window and the unit becomes a random draw.

We have a hybrid system if you look at the west collectively! Are you taking advantage of it? We have purely random, no point states. We have bonus point states. And we have preference point states. There’s value in the combined approach. Use it to your advantage.

I’ve been at this for several decades. I have those 20+ points in multiple states. That said, some of the best and most frequent tags I’ve drawn have been in random states. Take advantage of all the various systems and you might be surprised what happens.

 

[deertrout]

We have a hybrid system if you look at the west collectively! Are you taking advantage of it? We have purely random, no point states. We have bonus point states. And we have preference point states. There’s value in the combined approach. Use it to your advantage.

I’ve been at this for several decades. I have those 20+ points in multiple states. That said, some of the best and most frequent tags I’ve drawn have been in random states. Take advantage of all the various systems and you might be surprised what happens.

I appreciate your encouragement! I fell in love with pronghorn hunting and have found a few "poor quality" units that have more than exceeded my expectations. I've been able to draw every other year no problem, which is perfect as I like to do other trips in the off years while slowly building up my points piggy bank for mule deer and elk.

I was saying maybe we need more of a hybrid system within a state for a particular species. Put the units where point creep has gotten out of control on a random, and leave the rest of the units in the normal pref point system. Use a trigger like 20 points to make the flip. I realize there would be some flaws with this, but at least it makes it possible for a guy to have a sliver of hope. I actually really like Wyoming and Utah's systems for the way they allocate a percentage to a random fir this reason, and I think they're pretty good systems overall.

 

[Archer86]

8 pages and all I can tell is there are a lot of people that don't know how to effectively apply in different states so they can hunt every year out west or everyone expects to get a oil bull or buck tag every year and if they don't the draw system sucks.

Random draw is the best option but the established point systems are not going anywhere so instead of complaining about them all the time learn to use it to your advantage and you will be much better off.