Ultralight Ultralight Rifles

[C Bow]

Cheap Farrow but pad with the bottom cut off to make it stronger and the buffer tube is also just a cheap rifle length tube I drilled 5/8 inch holes along the top and bottom Total cost around 50.00 Bucks

 

[Thegman]

I apologize if this has been answered but I couldn't find it with the search feature...

I have a nice accurate 6.5 Grendal barrel I want to keep using on a straight pull. If I
1. Use a heavier bcg (Bear Creek Arsenal side charger)
2. Remove the o ring
3. Keep it lubricated
Do you guys think it will work well enough that I don't get frustrated?

I know the 6mm ARC was a struggle but it seemed like a heavier bcg and no one ring hadn't been tried. I could turn the gas block backwards and test it but I assume the traditional in line charge handle will have less friction and work a bit better than a side charger (in other words it might not work so well once I change the barrel over).

Unfortunately, the answer is "maybe". Sounds like the best bet for a gasless AR/non-223 based cartridge is the BCA bolt rifle system. Hopefully those will eventually be available as uppers only for people that want to run those types of cartridges.

 

[The Guide]

Unfortunately, the answer is "maybe". Sounds like the best bet for a gasless AR/non-223 based cartridge is the BCA bolt rifle system. Hopefully those will eventually be available as uppers only for people that want to run those types of cartridges.

Now if they would make one for the WSSM line we would be cooking! Still bummed I was a poor when Olympia Arms was making their WSSM rifles.

Jay

 

[HighUintas]

I finally got one mostly put together with a 3x9 leupold ultralight. Need to screw down the handgaurd but that's all that's left. Going to be just a hair over 4lbs with my scythe-ti on it.
Thank you to all of you for helping to make this happen! Beat my UL kimber 22 creed by about 1lb 4oz with the same exact scope.
-13.5" LOP and 10" handgaurd

It's not pretty, but I was able to break 2lbs milling out the slot for the side charging handle on this magnesium upper.

8 inch 5.56 barrel (SBR stamp)

2.75lbs including mag, red dot, and suppressor

Good out to 200/300 yards with 77tmk (2230fps)

Those are pretty great. Were they mostly just putting parts together or did you have to do a lot of modifications?

 

[HighUintas]

I'm interested in doing one of these ULUL guns, depending on price and level of mods required. I have read this thread, but there's a dizzying amount of different info here and I know absolutely nothing about ARs. I have not a lot of money, 0 knowledge on ARs, and not enough time to start another hobby and learn the details of something new, like making my own CF parts etc. so..... Best case scenario is one of you guys decides you want to get rid of one of your finished builds and sells it to me

I really like backpacking in for my October hunt about 10miles and if I could cut 5 pounds off just my gun, that could open the door to being able to stretch that to 15+ miles since I know I could cut 5-10 lbs off my other gear.

What i would be interested in is:

- 223 or 6mm (preferably 6mm because I'll likely be moving to WY in a couple years)
- 16" to avoid SBR stamp and extra noise
- effective to 400 on elk
- use my scythe suppressor
- use my swfa UL 2.5-10 (if possible considering weight and $ goal)
- easily detachable stock
- max of 4.5 lbs all in unloaded, but lighter is better
- max of $600-800 but cheaper is better


What do you guys think?

 

[Trackselk]

@HighUintas
Thanks!
I had to cut, drill, and sand carbon fiber tube a little, and cut up an aluminum buffer tube and use some glue, but nothing major. A set screw threads right into the rear lower pin detent hole so you don't need a plate (TN arms lower).

 

[ACHILLES]

Interesting, I’ve never had issues or noticed until now.

The saftey selector was the most noticeable. Take down pins seemed to line up well. Although I was having issues with my steel bcg using that lower too. Might not be anything wrong, will have to switch trigger and go from there.

Okay I was wrong here. The take down pins don’t line up that well. And with my steel or aluminum bcg it’s binding up in the upper. I just put the aluminum lower back on and it’s working fine. I’ve put 160 rounds through the 22arc and it has been working well. I think I’m just going to end up getting the 2A armament Palouse light forged receiver set for this build instead it’s 13.1oz total for the set.

Did get my other ULUL gasser in 5.56 put together though, going to start testing it soon.
Once I add the jag 9” hand gaurd system, switch to a BCA 16” bbl cut to 12.5” Bbl, modify a aluminum 556 mag, lighten the grip I should be right at 2.63lbs for bare rifle and mag. After adding an sig Romeo 5 red dot and my tbac ultra 5 I should have a 3.56lb gas gun all up.

Right now at 3.4lbs here’s the parts I’m using
Smoke composites stock
Hogue grip
Rock river 2 stage trigger
NFA poly LPK
Random buffer and spring I had
DSA aluminum bcg
Bushmaster poly upper
TNA poly lower
Radian Raptor CH
Superlative arms adj .625 steel gas block
Bushmaster steel barrel nut at 1.0 oz
No forward assist or ej port cover
Bushmaster 16” pencil bbl at 22oz

 

[Taudisio]

I'm interested in doing one of these ULUL guns, depending on price and level of mods required. I have read this thread, but there's a dizzying amount of different info here and I know absolutely nothing about ARs. I have not a lot of money, 0 knowledge on ARs, and not enough time to start another hobby and learn the details of something new, like making my own CF parts etc. so..... Best case scenario is one of you guys decides you want to get rid of one of your finished builds and sells it to me

I really like backpacking in for my October hunt about 10miles and if I could cut 5 pounds off just my gun, that could open the door to being able to stretch that to 15+ miles since I know I could cut 5-10 lbs off my other gear.

What i would be interested in is:

- 223 or 6mm (preferably 6mm because I'll likely be moving to WY in a couple years)
- 16" to avoid SBR stamp and extra noise
- effective to 400 on elk
- use my scythe suppressor
- use my swfa UL 2.5-10 (if possible considering weight and $ goal)
- easily detachable stock
- max of 4.5 lbs all in unloaded, but lighter is better
- max of $600-800 but cheaper is better


What do you guys think?

Does your final price include the cost of the SWFA? If it does not, it’s easily doable on your own. Order the parts and a quick YouTube video to follow the lower assembly (it’s adult legos for sure). I think $800 should get you there.

 

[packgoatguy]

Those are pretty great. Were they mostly just putting parts together or did you have to do a lot of modifications?

For me, it was a bit of both. But, I'll say IMO the few parts that can be tinkered with will give ya a better end product (functionality and weight-wise) than is commercially available.

That said, this is a parts list (on a budget) that doesn't require a lot of tinkering...


$22 34/36 carbon tube for the handguard
$23 A2 buffertube
$30 farrowtech stock
$35 nfa polymer lpk
$49 Tennessee Arms CF lower
$56 bca barrel 5.56 1:7 16 inch pencil
$20 Hogue 15degree grip
$45 jag composites barrel nut
$329 solo300 upper/bcg
_______
$609 would get you under 2.5lbs easy.

 

[packgoatguy]

I'm interested in doing one of these ULUL guns, depending on price and level of mods required. I have read this thread, but there's a dizzying amount of different info here and I know absolutely nothing about ARs. I have not a lot of money, 0 knowledge on ARs, and not enough time to start another hobby and learn the details of something new, like making my own CF parts etc. so..... Best case scenario is one of you guys decides you want to get rid of one of your finished builds and sells it to me

I really like backpacking in for my October hunt about 10miles and if I could cut 5 pounds off just my gun, that could open the door to being able to stretch that to 15+ miles since I know I could cut 5-10 lbs off my other gear.

What i would be interested in is:

- 223 or 6mm (preferably 6mm because I'll likely be moving to WY in a couple years)
- 16" to avoid SBR stamp and extra noise
- effective to 400 on elk
- use my scythe suppressor
- use my swfa UL 2.5-10 (if possible considering weight and $ goal)
- easily detachable stock
- max of 4.5 lbs all in unloaded, but lighter is better
- max of $600-800 but cheaper is better


What do you guys think?

Is your swfa ultralight 2.5-10x32 the BDC model? If so, then yes that is a great option for precise holdovers out to 400/600 yards. You probably already know this... but if you use the zoom and reticle in conjunction with each other, you can sort of "dial" for fairly precise yardages. (Need a ballistic app like streylock that shows a picture of the reticle at different zooms, with the precise yardage at each tic and line on the reticle at each zoom). For example... with a 100 yard zero, 2738fps mv, at 4700ft elevation, 30 degree temp... at 10x, the 2nd full line in the reticle is for 347 yards. At 8x zoom, that same line in the reticle is for 390 yards. When I use this method, I make myself a dope chart that gives me this info out to the yardage I intend to hunt. Ends up being nearly as quick as traditional dialing with practice.

 

[packgoatguy]

I'm interested in doing one of these ULUL guns, depending on price and level of mods required. I have read this thread, but there's a dizzying amount of different info here and I know absolutely nothing about ARs. I have not a lot of money, 0 knowledge on ARs, and not enough time to start another hobby and learn the details of something new, like making my own CF parts etc. so..... Best case scenario is one of you guys decides you want to get rid of one of your finished builds and sells it to me

I really like backpacking in for my October hunt about 10miles and if I could cut 5 pounds off just my gun, that could open the door to being able to stretch that to 15+ miles since I know I could cut 5-10 lbs off my other gear.

What i would be interested in is:

- 223 or 6mm (preferably 6mm because I'll likely be moving to WY in a couple years)
- 16" to avoid SBR stamp and extra noise
- effective to 400 on elk
- use my scythe suppressor
- use my swfa UL 2.5-10 (if possible considering weight and $ goal)
- easily detachable stock
- max of 4.5 lbs all in unloaded, but lighter is better
- max of $600-800 but cheaper is better


What do you guys think?

223rem with 77tmk works well, and allows you to go with the lightest overall options in a sttaight pull AR15 build. With a 16 inch barrel, I'm getting between 2730 and 2770fps with factory stand1 77tmk. At 400 yards, that bullet still has 2035fps of retained velocity.

For 6mm in a ULUL straight pull, I think the concensus is 6x45mm or 6mmMAX. A 6ARC will need something heavier like the bear creek arsenal bolt action upper that manually rotates the bolt to break it free after firing.

Another option without a huge pricetag is a kimber hunter... if you cut a 6.5creed down to 16 inches, and modify the stock, you can get the bare rifle pretty close to 4lbs. With the swfa and dnz 1 piece rings, that's an additional 13oz, a scythe ti suppressor is 8oz, so it would end up around 5.5lbs all up, maybe a bit less if you can find a fluted bolt or have the barrel fluted. You could likewise get into a similar weight range with a howa 6arc build if I'm not mistaken.

 

[HighUintas]

Does your final price include the cost of the SWFA? If it does not, it’s easily doable on your own. Order the parts and a quick YouTube video to follow the lower assembly (it’s adult legos for sure). I think $800 should get you there.

Is your swfa ultralight 2.5-10x32 the BDC model? If so, then yes that is a great option for precise holdovers out to 400/600 yards. You probably already know this... but if you use the zoom and reticle in conjunction with each other, you can sort of "dial" for fairly precise yardages. (Need a ballistic app like streylock that shows a picture of the reticle at different zooms, with the precise yardage at each tic and line on the reticle at each zoom). For example... with a 100 yard zero, 2738fps mv, at 4700ft elevation, 30 degree temp... at 10x, the 2nd full line in the reticle is for 347 yards. At 8x zoom, that same line in the reticle is for 390 yards. When I use this method, I make myself a dope chart that gives me this info out to the yardage I intend to hunt. Ends up being nearly as quick as traditional dialing with practice.

This sounds awesome and very doable if I decide to divert some of my funds from other hunting gear to it.

I already have the swfa and scythe in hand, so the only parts that would be going towards that budget max is the gun and scope mount.

I unfortunately sold my bdc swfa and kept the duplex, since the bdc is only useful when used at a specific and repeatable magnification. I don't use the scope much passed 8x because the clarity goes down significantly.

However, I figured I'd test my duplex swfa for dialing and return to zero. If it is repeatable for dialing and returning to zero, I wouldn't mind screwing the cap off to dial for a 250+ shot.

I'm fairly handy and have plenty of tools, but no mill or lathe. So if the mods only require simple cutting, filing, drilling holes, threading, or milling with a Dremel, I can do mods for sure.

Thanks for the input. I'll check out those parts and do a little more reading

 

[HighUintas]

And yes I realized after re-reading that the only real option for getting a UL 16" barrel that would work on a straight pull would be a 223. Which is fine for the next couple years in Utah. I could always get another barrel later if something becomes available.

The shaw 223 Wylde UL barrel should work well for the factory 77tmk rounds right?

 

[KyleR1985]

This janky rifle with the 60.00 barrel shot thay group right out the gate with AAC 77tmk at 100. Average 2520fps across a box.

I loaded a lever ladder at 2.38” long, shot 26.5g with no signs of pressure at 2738fps. That same powder weight shot 2750 at 2.3”. Thinking I can push 2800fps if I can load at 2.39-2.4” - working on it with the Lower.

My filed down crappy BCA barrel extension and crappy blew/seconds BCA upper functioned flawlessly.

 

[Trackselk]

View attachment 817011View attachment 817012





This janky rifle with the 60.00 barrel shot thay group right out the gate with AAC 77tmk at 100. Average 2520fps across a box.

I loaded a lever ladder at 2.38” long, shot 26.5g with no signs of pressure at 2738fps. That same powder weight shot 2750 at 2.3”. Thinking I can push 2800fps if I can load at 2.39-2.4” - working on it with the Lower.

My filed down crappy BCA barrel extension and crappy blew/seconds BCA upper functioned flawlessly.

About 1" group? I'm switching over to try the lighter and longer-throat BCA barrel. Can't load my preferred bullet beyond 2.3 with the Shaw or green mountain FWIW

 

[bearcreekbandit]

I posted some info on the 77TMK thread about my experience on trying out the 77TMK on this black bear. There was some interest in the rifle used so I'm posting some info about the whys and hows on some of what I've put together over the last year or so.

View attachment 611751

I've been carrying lightweight bolt rifles around the mountains for a long time and have thought about how to make the lightest rifle I could, just to see what's possible, if nothing else. The lightest bolt rifle I've had was a 4# 9oz 308. That was pretty costly and there didn't seem to be a way to get much lighter without a lot of machining, cutting and $$.

The AR platform seemed like a good place to look having an already lightweight aluminum upper receiver,, lightweight relatively inexpensive barrels available and all the lightweight parts available...and the ability to easily put them together.

Anyway, here's a couple I've put together. Most are still getting modified as I figure out what works best for my purposes, or have been since the pictures were taken, but this hopefully give the basic idea.

This is the rifle in the picture above that took the black bear, in it's initial iteration I put together with what I had on hand at the time. I jokingly refer to as the Red Ryder. The bare rifle is only about 12oz heavier than a Red Ryder BB gun and feels more like you're holding a BB gun than a rifle you might use for big game. It's lighter, by about 1/2 a pound, than a 22LR Henry Survival Rifle if you've ever handled one of those.

View attachment 611752

Front to back, here's what it was and some of the tweaks since then:

Wilson Combat Ultralight 5.56 barrel (now wearing a Faxon 223 Wylde pencil barrel to see if I could get 75 ELDM to shoot well at AR OAL length - still didn't work well, but the 77 TMK does, and probably would in the Wilson as well, I just didn't have any at the time)

Guntec aluminum gas block cut down and reversed to seal the gas port (cut off too much apparently as it was leaking). Put another unmodified one on for now.

NFA 5" lightweight handguard. This is probably too short for shooting off a pack and is probably too short to carry well on a sling...but it was what I had in the parts drawer. I've since put a cut down 10" version of the same on. That will be replaced with a 10.5" Jag Composites Ultralight CF handguard. The 10.5 JC handguard is a bit lighter that that 5" aluminum handguard. I have one on my 3#10oz 5.56 gasser. They're super lightweight and work well so far.

TN Arms Carbon 15 lower. These weigh 4 oz. and have threaded brass inserts in the receiver for the buffer tube/stock and hand grip. There are lowers that are even a little lighter, but they're not reinforced as well. I did have an NFA receiver crack on the top of the buffer tower on another build so decided to go with these. So far so good.

NFA polymer LPK. These have worked fine for me so far in multiple builds..

Solo 300 bolt action upper. These use a shortend, aluminum bolt carrier and don't require any springs, buffers, etc. in the buffer tube so can use any kind of stock.

A good place to mention why I decided to build as a straight pull bolt AR rather than a gasser:
A little easier to make a lighter build.
Easier to keep track of and recover brass.
Simpler than a gasser.
Not finniky like super lightweight ARs can be. I've built an ultalight AR as I mentioned above. It's a great rifle, but I do have to be sure gas is tuned for the specific load, etc.
Nothing getting dirty from the gas system.
I've hunted with bolt rifles all my life and never felt handicapped by that in any way. For the hunting I do, if I need multiple, rapid follow up shots, I've just screwed up. And, I can run this faster than any turn bolt if that matters...which it probably doesn't.

Hogue 15° grip. These only weigh 1oz and are only about $20.

A2 buffer tube with a Farrow Tech butt that attaches in place of the A2 stock. About 5oz total. There are other stocks about the same weight, but wanted to see what could be done on the cheap.

Hopefully that sums this one up okay and some here find the idea interesting. I'll post something shorter on the next build.

I recently read your article on this build and the grizzly you got with it. Nice work and congrats!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[packgoatguy]

And yes I realized after re-reading that the only real option for getting a UL 16" barrel that would work on a straight pull would be a 223. Which is fine for the next couple years in Utah. I could always get another barrel later if something becomes available.

The shaw 223 Wylde UL barrel should work well for the factory 77tmk rounds right?

Yes, the shaw 223 wylde (portless limited run they did) works fine with the 77tmk I've put through mine.

 

[packgoatguy]

This sounds awesome and very doable if I decide to divert some of my funds from other hunting gear to it.

I already have the swfa and scythe in hand, so the only parts that would be going towards that budget max is the gun and scope mount.

I unfortunately sold my bdc swfa and kept the duplex, since the bdc is only useful when used at a specific and repeatable magnification. I don't use the scope much passed 8x because the clarity goes down significantly.

However, I figured I'd test my duplex swfa for dialing and return to zero. If it is repeatable for dialing and returning to zero, I wouldn't mind screwing the cap off to dial for a 250+ shot.

I'm fairly handy and have plenty of tools, but no mill or lathe. So if the mods only require simple cutting, filing, drilling holes, threading, or milling with a Dremel, I can do mods for sure.

Thanks for the input. I'll check out those parts and do a little more reading

I've attached my dope chart for the BDC SWFA ultralight. It looks complicated... but with some practice, it's pretty close to dialing turrets in its precision and speed. Plus it's 100% repeatable because the only "dialing" that happens on the scope is the adjustment of the zoom, so you can't have a turret slip accidentally, or forget which revolution returns to zero, etc. Just get the range to target, look at the chart and find the corresponding zoom and line on the reticle to use, adjust the zoom, then aim with the correct part of the reticle... and shoot.

As for diy projects needing a mill, I was able to use a drill press for milling out the side charger slot. I made a wooden bracket to hold the upper in place, and used clamps to hold a guide to the table of the drill press, then I could run my upper in straight lines with a side cutting bit.

The most time consuming project was the carbon tube that had to be sanded on the inside to fit over the barrel nut. And making my fitting for the carbon tube stock to line up properly in the cutoff buffertube. But neither of those needed special tools, just a grinding wheel and sand paper.

 

[Athens]

If one was completely obsessed with Uber lightweight rifles perhaps a single shot, like a blaser k95, and a custom lightweight carbon fiber stock/forend would be the ticket.

I figure it would only be about 10k to figure out a weapon in the 8-10lb range is easier to shoot accurately and not too difficult to carry.

 

[Thegman]

If one was completely obsessed with Uber lightweight rifles perhaps a single shot, like a blaser k95, and a custom lightweight carbon fiber stock/forend would be the ticket.

I figure it would only be about 10k to figure out a weapon in the 8-10lb range is easier to shoot accurately and not too difficult to carry.

You're a little late to the party, but thanks for the input anyway.