Truss issue on a new building, would like some insight.

[Tod osier]

Does this national company do a lot of work in your area? I would be tempted to casually or not so casually mention that you’re going to tell everyone you know about how they handle this.

That I'll be vocal if not happy both locally and nationally as a 2nd time owner is clear to the sales guy.

This is very early in the process. I emailed my essay on the problems just over a week ago and we met with the sales guy and a building supervisor on Thursday. They have been responsive.

I just want to be clear here, I have told them in no uncertain terms that the roof looks like crap and is unacceptable. What I have not done is to say that it absolutely has to be removed and rebuilt. I have not given them a chance to do the right thing. I have not said, fix this.

I'm walking a pretty fine line I think. I don't think I've done a good job here stating that they have agreed to fix a ridiculous ton of things, some pretty significant. They have already pulled posts/columns out of the ground that were not plumb or out of line on day 3 of the job. Now at finish they have agreed to replace nearly 25% of the wall metal due to damage and hundreds of feet of trim that looks like crap, Nearly 10% of the roof metal needs to come off because of trim issues. This was all agreed on Thursday. I have stayed strong on the fact the roof looks like crap, but didn't demand absolutely that it be fixed. Thus the reason for me asking. In just the repairs that they have agreed to, between labor and materials I bet they are getting close to equal to the amount of the final payment - that doesn't include the roof/truss issue.

 

[Tod osier]

Truss manufacturer should be able to spec a fix to plane the crown and add sister rafters or similar. Have dealt with more crappy trusses than I care to recount. Would think they would keep quality higher if they’re made in house.
Large construction companies are almost always a crapshoot on quality no matter the trade.

They are the truss manufacturer and while we didn't discuss it, I expect that they will consider all options. Given that they manufacture the trusses and they have a very specific system on how to build, just trashing the trusses and rebuilding may be the best thing for them. I have no idea.

 

[Fatcamp]

They do build their own trusses.

The building has a ton of issues, I think you missed that. We arrived on solutions for all but this one issue. Solutions for the other problems involve replacing metal for nearly one whole side of the building, several hundred feet of trims (not kidding at all). The only quality work was the concrete, which is subbed out.

Crew was young and thought more highly of themselves than they should have.

Thanks.

No, I saw where you said there were multiple issues. Thats why I wondered if they got busy and subd it out.

Sucks when things go sideways. I feel for you.

 

[Tod osier]

This is a better pic.

 

[Wrongside]

That roof frame should’ve never had metal installed. I wouldn’t accept it either.

Unfortunately the bar has been set pretty low in the construction industry & carpentry trades. Hopefully they make it right for you.

 

[woods89]

I couldn't see much in the first pic, but my goodness does it come through in the second one. I can see why you aren't happy with it.

I'm only guessing here, but I wouldn't be surprised if a web member got cut long when they put those trusses together, which put a break in the top chord. Trusses in my area are typically Southern Yellow Pine, and there can be some inconsistencies from truss to truss, but the long and the short of it is that this is a quality control problem when they built them. So I'm not telling you anything you don't know, lol.

As to the other issues, sometimes it's not completely clear, but it wouldn't surprise me if the crew is actually a sub. Maybe you have asked that question, but sometimes companies want you to believe they are using in-house help, when they actually aren't. This can lead to significant quality differences under the same corporate roof.

Best of luck. There's only one right way to fix it, which means new trusses. That's not saying you can't make another arrangement that will work fine for you, but even coming from the side of being a residential building and remodeling GC sometimes you can waste a lot of money trying to fix it halfway, and still wind up doing the big fix eventually.

 

[Wrongside]

I couldn't see much in the first pic, but my goodness does it come through in the second one. I can see why you aren't happy with it.

I'm only guessing here, but I wouldn't be surprised if a web member got cut long when they put those trusses together, which put a break in the top chord. Trusses in my area are typically Southern Yellow Pine, and there can be some inconsistencies from truss to truss, but the long and the short of it is that this is a quality control problem when they built them. So I'm not telling you anything you don't know, lol.

As to the other issues, sometimes it's not completely clear, but it wouldn't surprise me if the crew is actually a sub. Maybe you have asked that question, but sometimes companies want you to believe they are using in-house help, when they actually aren't. This can lead to significant quality differences under the same corporate roof.

Best of luck. There's only one right way to fix it, which means new trusses. That's not saying you can't make another arrangement that will work fine for you, but even coming from the side of being a residential building and remodeling GC sometimes you can waste a lot of money trying to fix it halfway, and still wind up doing the big fix eventually.

Agree on all counts.

Around here almost all of the large companies are fully sub-trade, except for their field staff. Supervisors, assistants, etc.

 

[cnelk]

Tell them they better put screws in the pan, not just the ribs.

Subpar install for sure

 

[Tod osier]

I couldn't see much in the first pic, but my goodness does it come through in the second one. I can see why you aren't happy with it.

I'm only guessing here, but I wouldn't be surprised if a web member got cut long when they put those trusses together, which put a break in the top chord. Trusses in my area are typically Southern Yellow Pine, and there can be some inconsistencies from truss to truss, but the long and the short of it is that this is a quality control problem when they built them. So I'm not telling you anything you don't know, lol.

As to the other issues, sometimes it's not completely clear, but it wouldn't surprise me if the crew is actually a sub. Maybe you have asked that question, but sometimes companies want you to believe they are using in-house help, when they actually aren't. This can lead to significant quality differences under the same corporate roof.

Best of luck. There's only one right way to fix it, which means new trusses. That's not saying you can't make another arrangement that will work fine for you, but even coming from the side of being a residential building and remodeling GC sometimes you can waste a lot of money trying to fix it halfway, and still wind up doing the big fix eventually.

I believe that it is possible that the web is long, that would do it. I was going to climb up there and see if I can see what is going on under the mending plate. All the trusses are similar to the eye. Whatever happened, they appear consistent. I've watched videos of making trusses (the extent of my knowledge of commercial trusses) and it seems like whatever jig was used was just set up wrong or like you said the web was long (the other webs should gap under the plate if that was the case). They are a very nice grade of SYP, which is a damn shame.

The crew are not subs, I know their whole story. 2 in training to be foreman of their own crew and moved out from the midwest, one was a training supervisor 20+ years with the company that became the foreman after I pitched a fit and one was a first day on the job didn't know how to use a hammer green.

Thanks for the comments, I've decided to push replacement with them. I'm drafting a letter (with pictures) now.

 

[Wrongside]

Tell them they better put screws in the pan, not just the ribs.

Subpar install for sure

View attachment 935952

IME, that fastener install varies regionally.

 

[Tod osier]

IME, that fastener install varies regionally.

Probably also has to do with the metal gauge too. My other one only has them in the ribs and it has held up to several hurricanes and tropical storms.

 

[woods89]

I believe that it is possible that the web is long, that would do it. I was going to climb up there and see if I can see what is going on under the mending plate. All the trusses are similar to the eye. Whatever happened, they appear consistent. I've watched videos of making trusses (the extent of my knowledge of commercial trusses) and it seems like whatever jig was used was just set up wrong or like you said the web was long (the other webs should gap under the plate if that was the case). They are a very nice grade of SYP, which is a damn shame.

The crew are not subs, I know their whole story. 2 in training to be foreman of their own crew and moved out from the midwest, one was a training supervisor 20+ years with the company that became the foreman after I pitched a fit and one was a first day on the job didn't know how to use a hammer green.

Thanks for the comments, I've decided to push replacement with them. I'm drafting a letter (with pictures) now.

Makes sense. I think a lot of companies are using computerized control systems to cut truss members anymore, which means that if there is a mistake it will be on all of them. It wouldn't show up on the gable trusses because they would have been designed separately. I know stuff happens, but it should have been caught at the truss factory, if not there it should have been caught by the time one or two trusses were on the wall.

The crew situation is unfortunately more the norm than the exception. The labor situation in the trades is a mess. Because of shortages in help you have people out there in responsible positions who simply aren't ready.

Sorry you had the run around, hopefully the company steps up.

 

[woods89]

Tell them they better put screws in the pan, not just the ribs.

Subpar install for sure

View attachment 935952

This is controversial, lol. The metal company we use will warranty it either way. We usually run a screw in the flat on each side of the rib on the bottom row, and in the top of the rib the rest of the way up. It looks very consistent, and nothing locks a rib against wind like a 2'' screw though the rib. I have no problem screwing in the flat if the customer prefers it, though.

Concealed fastener is the real answer, though......

 

[Tod osier]

Makes sense. I think a lot of companies are using computerized control systems to cut truss members anymore, which means that if there is a mistake it will be on all of them. It wouldn't show up on the gable trusses because they would have been designed separately. I know stuff happens, but it should have been caught at the truss factory, if not there it should have been caught by the time one or two trusses were on the wall.

The crew situation is unfortunately more the norm than the exception. The labor situation in the trades is a mess. Because of shortages in help you have people out there in responsible positions who simply aren't ready.

Sorry you had the run around, hopefully the company steps up.

Just got off the ladder to get your pics for you. All joints appear tight, no obvious gapping in the chords or webs.

I did get a couple shots to show what is going on with the top chord. You can see the change right at the big plate.


Looking at the bottom of the top chord, you can really see that it isn't straight.

 

[displacedtexan]

That is where I am other than the time to do it. Trusses are built in house, so it is on them.

I agree with you...

I generally hate trusses. I've put trusses on multi million dollar houses that are worse than your pole barn trusses...

A skilled crew should be able to make that to where you'll never see it, without modifications to the trusses.