Truss issue on a new building, would like some insight.

[Tod osier]

Where do you stand in terms of payment?

To give an idea of where we are at, the sales guy that is the point of contact and a pretty straight shooter said that only 2 out of 100 guests to our home might notice the issue (I’m the 1 out of 2 people paying for this building that will notice it every day).

In my opinion this is proof, not evidence but proof, that they're willing to act in bad faith to save a dollar.

Stop payment and offer to be taken to court before you pay if they don't make it right. I've done that and had it work in the past. I didn't enjoy it but it had to be done.

I don't know what they are willing to do in the end. They have not gotten the final payment and have a lot of work to do to get to that point given our discussions so far. The trusses are the one thing that has not been resolved, but it has been discussed.

 

[Tod osier]

That’s a pickle, and even experienced guys will have a hard time coming up with a fix that the builder won’t fight and produce a smooth roof.
Trusses cannot be modified without the truss engineer giving the ok. Pulling off trusses and having new ones made isnt a reasonable fix - nobody will do that. At best the metal roof comes off, plywood/osb is pulled, trusses are shimmed flat with 2x material and plywood/osb replaced. The national association of home builder standards are typically what builders use in court and they are definitely in the builders favor.

It started with the trusses being built wonky - as soon as the crown was discovered they should have been rejected by the carpenters. Many experienced carpenters haven’t worked with metal roofs much so it’s not surprising. As a builder I’d be furious the carpenter in charge didn’t see the crown and know enough that a metal roof couldn’t be installed on it, but most small contractors also don’t work with many metal roofs, so the owner may not have recognized it as a problem. An experienced roofer would definitely know the roof wasn’t flat before starting and most likely would have brought it up to the lead carpenter if not contractor, or if nobody was around from the contractor side, they just tried to make do with what they had to work with. Maybe it’s an inexperienced roofing lead who hadn’t run into this before. The world isn’t a perfect place.

If I was the lead I’d suggest removing the metal roof to be reused, adding tapered 2x sleepers over the existing roof to provide a flat base for a new layer of ply/osb. Most expensive option.

The contractor will probably try to get the roofer to agree to pull the metal and “shim” the surface of the ply/osb with layers of osb and perhaps thick roofing felt on their dime. The roofer will probably get pinched unless they have a good relationship with the contractor even though it wasn’t their fault. Too many soft layers of felt risk dents from walking on it.

In the end the person holding the cash has the advantage. If the contractor was paid he will blame everyone else and between the truss plant and roofer maybe the truss plant won’t charge for the wonky trusses and the roofer will make some effort to kiss his ass to try to get paid. If the contractor hasn’t been paid he’ll make more effort possibly including his carpenters. You now know why lien releases from suppliers are so important. The contractor could walk away, not pay for the trusses and they lien you.

Worst case if the contractor tells you to kick rocks, a consultation with an attorney will repeat the idea that the person holding the money has the advantage, and regardless of the wording in the contract he will be happy to start what may be a year long process with no guarantee you’ll issue will be resolved. This typically involves another contractor and list of subs giving estimates to remedy your problem, some back and forth with the contractor’s attorney and their third party contractor and roofing experts contradicting your estimates.

Squeaky wheel gets the grease, if it were me I’d stop any payments and nicely but firmly let him know it has to be done in a way that doesn’t catch your eye

I appreciate your thoughts on how to handle it some more details and a couple things to clarify, this is a company that handles the whole process. The crew is theirs, the trusses are theirs, the metal, etc... I threw a fit with the quality of the work on day 1.5 for another issue and the foreman was replaced with a training supervisor, but the original foreman stayed on the job as part of the crew. The crew (minus the training supervisor) are meatheads not capable of turning out a quality product, everyone involved knows this. You would not believe the percentage of the building that has been replaced or has been agreed to be replaced. The sales guy said he was not surprised that the crew would miss the truss issue.

These guys are not shimming anything if that makes sense given the above, they rely on the materials they get and putting them together. I could absolutely shim the roof out flat if I needed to. The sales guy and a supervisor stated that the only fix is new trusses.

I hear you on how to move forward.

 

[Tod osier]

I’d see what their cash offer is to make you settle, if it isn’t considerable I’d make them tear off and re-do.

This has not come up out loud. This is one of the things I've wondered about.

 

[Tod osier]

The trusses sitting off-center will do that and effectively "raise" the top chord on that side. A purlin placed at that point will cause the bow in the metal. The tattle-tail would be a bow in the roof on the opposite side.

The truss support chords could out of spec also causing this problem.

Likely, there isn't a structural issue. It might be able to be fixed cosmeticlly.

I don't think that is the issue. There eave and ridge look good, enough. The string on the truss indicated a crown/camber.

 

[Tod osier]

Truss systems can be engineered and built with a crown to handle load deflection. This includes snow loads etc.

Unfortunately, from my experience, this may be deemed a “cosmetic issue” only and the crown will not affect the structural engineering of the trusses.

This is the detail I'm wondering about. I'm hoping that someone with expert knowledge can talk me through truss stuff.

 

[ThunderJack49]

I don't think that is the issue. There eave and ridge look good, enough. The string on the truss indicated a crown/camber.

Your eaves can be straightened regardless of how well the trusses were layed out when they were set. The metal ridge cap can hide an off set truss as well. I'd likely think that one or two trusses were not set evenly, or your wall was not straight that they were setting the trusses on. I also wasn't there to see the string line, so you can absolutely be correct. Carpentry is a constantly humbling endeavor, in my experience.
I guess it's kind of irrelevant at this point.

My wife and I were recently up against some rather large bureaucracies and I cannot recommend using the pro version of chatgpt enough. TLDR on that is, using chatgpt we were able to do enough research on insurance laws and be articulate enough in our emails that we were able to receive a settle almost twice what their original offer was. It's 200$ a month and has saved me about 14k so far. I would highly recommend it.

 

[repins05]

But, one could argure the camber/crown in this truss vs all the others if its not unison, its a bitch to do, but can be fought.

Just because it is not in unison does not mean it is not structurally sound. The gable trusses are sitting on walls and are typically engineered differently.

Trusses are designed and engineered with allowable tolerances to meet wind and snow load requirements in the jurisdiction they are located in. Every state can have different requirements. You could consult a truss engineer to see what variances are allowed in regard to alignment between individual trusses in your area. If anything, this could give you peace of mind in regard to the structurally integrity. It obviously does not solve the cosmetic look of the roofline.

 

[TaperPin]

I appreciate your thoughts on how to handle it some more details and a couple things to clarify, this is a company that handles the whole process. The crew is theirs, the trusses are theirs, the metal, etc... I threw a fit with the quality of the work on day 1.5 for another issue and the foreman was replaced with a training supervisor, but the original foreman stayed on the job as part of the crew. The crew (minus the training supervisor) are meatheads not capable of turning out a quality product, everyone involved knows this. You would not believe the percentage of the building that has been replaced or has been agreed to be replaced. The sales guy said he was not surprised that the crew would miss the truss issue.

These guys are not shimming anything if that makes sense given the above, they rely on the materials they get and putting them together. I could absolutely shim the roof out flat if I needed to. The sales guy and a supervisor stated that the only fix is new trusses.

I hear you on how to move forward.

It’s not an uncommon situation. There is a point where knuckleheads can’t be expected to be anything other than knuckleheads and there is no good resolution.

I’m not saying his is your situation, but I’ve seen small contractors knowingly let something like these trusses slide, knowing it will cause problems. They get a full refund from the truss plant and offer the client half that as compensation. Even working on $1m houses I’ve seen his multiple times.

 

[repins05]

It is an unfortunate situation. As someone mentioned above, you could request the roofing to be removed and shims or sister rafters could be added. I would recommend consulting the truss manufacture in regard to adding sister rafters.

The problem with this approach is that you are potentially requesting the same workers to fix the work that should have been addressed prior to the sheathing being completed. Do you trust them at this point? Also taking roofing on and off, shimming, etc. can lead to additional issues including damaged panels that get put back up etc.

I would request a repair and ultimately be fighting for a credit. Assuming no structural issues, I would place concern towards the crown affecting the metal roofing installation (rather than it being a cosmetic issue). Metal roofing is not made to flex/bend. Future potential issues could include screws loosening and creating paths for moisture penetration, standing seam lifting, expansion and contraction issues, etc.

 

[Tod osier]

Just because it is not in unison does not mean it is not structurally sound. The gable trusses are sitting on walls and are typically engineered differently.

Trusses are designed and engineered with allowable tolerances to meet wind and snow load requirements in the jurisdiction they are located in. Every state can have different requirements. You could consult a truss engineer to see what variances are allowed in regard to alignment between individual trusses in your area. If anything, this could give you peace of mind in regard to the structurally integrity. It obviously does not solve the cosmetic look of the roofline.

We are in a county with no building code. The trusses are way overbuilt because the county we are in has a variety of snowfall situations and they are going with max load for the county near the mountains, but we are out in the desert and get little snow. Trusses are built to 55 pounds per square foot whereas the counties to the south and east of us with similar snowfall the code is for a 20-30# load.

 

[Tod osier]

It is an unfortunate situation. As someone mentioned above, you could request the roofing to be removed and shims or sister rafters could be added. I would recommend consulting the truss manufacture in regard to adding sister rafters.

The problem with this approach is that you are potentially requesting the same workers to fix the work that should have been addressed prior to the sheathing being completed. Do you trust them at this point? Also taking roofing on and off, shimming, etc. can lead to additional issues including damaged panels that get put back up etc.

I would request a repair and ultimately be fighting for a credit. Assuming no structural issues, I would place concern towards the crown affecting the metal roofing installation (rather than it being a cosmetic issue). Metal roofing is not made to flex/bend. Future potential issues could include screws loosening and creating paths for moisture penetration, standing seam lifting, expansion and contraction issues, etc.

For future repairs we have been guaranteed it won't be the same crew, I assume that means a better crew (I know what assuming gets you). They do not want pictures of what we have on the internet, I can sense that (what a shitty position to be in, though).

They have a system and don't shim anything, most is premade and they put it together on site, everything but cutting to length is pre made, literally. I have not heard a solution other than new trusses, but we are not that deep into the discussion. I haven't put my foot down other than to say it isn't acceptable.

 

[Blcktail56]

The builder should have seen that while straightening trusses before sheets and roof. Most likely trying to hide it from you. If the contract allows that should definitely be made right by the builder

 

[cnelk]

FYI
It’s a pole barn construction.

The roof doesn’t have sheathing on the trusses.
It has purlins. And the metal roofing is attached on top of the them

 

[grfox92]

The truss manufacturer screwed up. The contractor should have caught that mistake.

There is no way they didn't know that kink was in those trusses before they sheeted and put on that metal.

Sent from my SM-G990U using Tapatalk

 

[Fatcamp]

Spent years building roofs. I didn't do many pole barns but many apartments and massive wooden structures.

That's wrong. For what the trusses and installation cost there is no way you should accept that. They knew long before they finished the metal that the trusses were wrong. The plane of that roof looks goofy overall. Call the sales guy in the morning and tell him it needs to be fixed.

Do they build their own trusses?

Did they sub your project out or use a new crew?

Strange they did good work for you then left this for you to find.

 

[Tod osier]

The builder should have seen that while straightening trusses before sheets and roof. Most likely trying to hide it from you. If the contract allows that should definitely be made right by the builder

Agree, the metal was clearly resisting being bent into place. 100% agree.

 

[Tod osier]

Your eaves can be straightened regardless of how well the trusses were layed out when they were set. The metal ridge cap can hide an off set truss as well. I'd likely think that one or two trusses were not set evenly, or your wall was not straight that they were setting the trusses on. I also wasn't there to see the string line, so you can absolutely be correct. Carpentry is a constantly humbling endeavor, in my experience.
I guess it's kind of irrelevant at this point.

My wife and I were recently up against some rather large bureaucracies and I cannot recommend using the pro version of chatgpt enough. TLDR on that is, using chatgpt we were able to do enough research on insurance laws and be articulate enough in our emails that we were able to receive a settle almost twice what their original offer was. It's 200$ a month and has saved me about 14k so far. I would highly recommend it.

On Thursday we had the sales guy and a supervisor (foreman's boss) out. After pointing out the issue, we ran a string together to determine the issue.

Thanks for the suggestion on chatgpt pro version, would never have considered that in a million years.

 

[Tod osier]

Spent years building roofs. I didn't do many pole barns but many apartments and massive wooden structures.

That's wrong. For what the trusses and installation cost there is no way you should accept that. They knew long before they finished the metal that the trusses were wrong. The plane of that roof looks goofy overall. Call the sales guy in the morning and tell him it needs to be fixed.

Do they build their own trusses?

Did they sub your project out or use a new crew?

Strange they did good work for you then left this for you to find.

They do build their own trusses.

The building has a ton of issues, I think you missed that. We arrived on solutions for all but this one issue. Solutions for the other problems involve replacing metal for nearly one whole side of the building, several hundred feet of trims (not kidding at all). The only quality work was the concrete, which is subbed out.

Crew was young and thought more highly of themselves than they should have.

Thanks.

 

[WiscoHoundsman]

Does this national company do a lot of work in your area? I would be tempted to casually or not so casually mention that you’re going to tell everyone you know about how they handle this.

Or see if you can get someone else higher up in the company involved

 

[weaver]

Truss manufacturer should be able to spec a fix to plane the crown and add sister rafters or similar. Have dealt with more crappy trusses than I care to recount. Would think they would keep quality higher if they’re made in house.
Large construction companies are almost always a crapshoot on quality no matter the trade.