To Upgrade or not - based on Axle to Axle

[roosiebull]

Combining the two, timing your release with your aim, will create issues.

Aim, let the pin float, then execute your shot. Your pin will come back, don’t try to time it and start punching the trigger

I put my pin where I want it, and then focus on the target and not the pin, getting forceful will result in punching the trigger, and your shot will just unravel from there

A lot of people blank bale to try to fix this habit (take their sight off of the bow) and just work on your release, ideally you just don’t create that problem in the first place, and in your case, only having a couple yards to shoot, can take advantage of that, not over aiming, letting your pin float and getting your release dialed in

 

[AG8]

Thanks everyone - I know that archers are extremally passionate about our sport.
I want to give myself the best chance for success and accuracy not in the yard but in that heart pumping moment on the tundra.

I appreciate all the conversation and I will agree that I have gotten into my own head a bit about this. But I like to know that I'm setting myself up for success so I am the only factor to fail and that is why I even started considering this. Lots of good stuff out there, some cool bows and a lot of fun to be had.

I'll see if the wife can help me talk sense into myself.

@Zac HA! I already have changed my mind about arrows but I won't get into that hear and has nothing to do with Diameter. I also have decided I don't like the broadheads I've used as they are extremely hard to find after the local shop shut down and nobody else seems to have heard of them. So I'm planning on switching up quite a bit this season anyway. Might as well be the whole kit and kaboodle right?

In all seriousness I haven't been involved in the archery world much. I drew a sheep tag in 2020 and planned a massive hunt - shot some bows and went with what was recommended by the shop for everything else. I shot almost daily for 2 years straight and then due to some circumstances at home I stopped shooting regularly and had to change my target setup which limited me to 20-30 yards. I don't have any 'archery' seasons and so I wasn't as focused on it. Now I have found an opportunity for an annual archery hunt and want to start prepping for that better.
View attachment 655225

I’m curious, what were the broadheads?

 

[stanginthe11s]

it all comes down to what flavor cool aid you like. there is no such thing as a longer ATA shooting further or more accurate. A bow is nothing more than a tool, an inanimate object. the fact that some people shoot longer bows better cannot be debated but it comes from the shooter, not the bow. a longer ATA will hide imperfections better than a short bow but as sndmn said, there are many other things that need to be looked at. the most overlooked of which is the grip. grip size shape and angle will have a far greater affect over accuracy than ATA. as zac pointed out, guys who can shoot, can shoot anything with the same results. this comes from practice and the desire to understand the process. if you feel your accuracy is lacking then you can either buy a different bow or you can listen to what your bow is telling you and learn. its a relationship of sorts, your bow will talk to you and you choose to listen to it or cheat on it with another bow lol.
on the subject of practice, stop thinking of reasons not to practice. you can practice on your couch. a bag of t shirts will stop an arrow. shoot in the dark, I do it all the time. its cold? it wont be when you start shooting lol. also, stop pointing your fingers out on your bow hand.

 

[nphunter]

it all comes down to what flavor cool aid you like. there is no such thing as a longer ATA shooting further or more accurate. A bow is nothing more than a tool, an inanimate object. the fact that some people shoot longer bows better cannot be debated but it comes from the shooter, not the bow. a longer ATA will hide imperfections better than a short bow but as sndmn said, there are many other things that need to be looked at. the most overlooked of which is the grip. grip size shape and angle will have a far greater affect over accuracy than ATA. as zac pointed out, guys who can shoot, can shoot anything with the same results. this comes from practice and the desire to understand the process. if you feel your accuracy is lacking then you can either buy a different bow or you can listen to what your bow is telling you and learn. its a relationship of sorts, your bow will talk to you and you choose to listen to it or cheat on it with another bow lol.
on the subject of practice, stop thinking of reasons not to practice. you can practice on your couch. a bag of t shirts will stop an arrow. shoot in the dark, I do it all the time. its cold? it wont be when you start shooting lol. also, stop pointing your fingers out on your bow hand.

Guys who can shoot well still shoot better with a longer ATA bow period. No professional target shooter is shooting a short ATA bow and no company makes a short ATA target bow because longer bows are more consistent and forgiving platforms which means they are more accurate more often with the same person shooting them.

I can’t believe this is even being debated, any person that shoots a short bow that fits them well will shoot a long bow that fits them better. Everyone would benefit from shooting more, the guys who shoot the most out of everyone grab long forgiving bows when money is on the line.

For hunting people are compromising accuracy for short bows so they are easier to carry, easier to shoot from a blind, easier to store, lighter or whatever marketing gimmick they bought into. I have no issues hunting with short bows but long bows are more accurate, even long recurve bows are more accurate than short recurve bows.

 

[Zac]

Guys who can shoot well still shoot better with a longer ATA bow period. No professional target shooter is shooting a short ATA bow and no company makes a short ATA target bow because longer bows are more consistent and forgiving platforms which means they are more accurate more often with the same person shooting them.

I can’t believe this is even being debated, any person that shoots a short bow that fits them well will shoot a long bow that fits them better. Everyone would benefit from shooting more, the guys who shoot the most out of everyone grab long forgiving bows when money is on the line.

For hunting people are compromising accuracy for short bows so they are easier to carry, easier to shoot from a blind, easier to store, lighter or whatever marketing gimmick they bought into. I have no issues hunting with short bows but long bows are more accurate, even long recurve bows are more accurate than short recurve bows.

I don't think anyone can debate any of this. My point was that it is ridiculous to all of a sudden be discontent with a bow that you previously liked and shot well because your buddy told you that a singular specification would be better. If the OP has money burning a whole in his pocket than maybe a longer ATA would benefit him the most. However there could be many other equipment items that would prove much more beneficial. Or maybe he is outfitted properly and could simply spend the money on a hunt, or a plane ticket, or gas or whatever. You and every other trigger happy poster is missing the point. If the OP had an issue than maybe it is something I would advise him fixing with a longer ATA. Although I believe he already has a VXR, which should fit him perfectly. All anyone ever sees in these posts is just the one stupid spec. Your just as bad as his friend that pointed it out.

 

[nphunter]

I don't think anyone can debate any of this. My point was that it is ridiculous to all of a sudden be discontent with a bow that you previously liked and shot well because your buddy told you that a singular specification would be better. If the OP has money burning a whole in his pocket than maybe a longer ATA would benefit him the most. However there could be many other equipment items that would prove much more beneficial. Or maybe he is outfitted properly and could simply spend the money on a hunt, or a plane ticket, or gas or whatever. You and every other trigger happy poster is missing the point. If the OP had an issue than maybe it is something I would advise him fixing with a longer ATA. Although I believe he already has a VXR, which should fit him perfectly. All anyone ever sees in these posts is just the one stupid spec. Your just as bad as his friend that pointed it out.

I posted earlier from personal experience and lost accuracy from moving to a shorter bow. I guess I’d rather not be the guy that tells someone it’s not a bow issue it’s a shooter issue and have him be frustrated for years. I really got in my own head thinking I was just shooting worse, kind of summed it up to maybe just getting older and not as accurate as I had been in the past. I shot some longer ATA bows and my groups shrank and they easier to obtain.

I shoot a lot and have a 100 yard range at the house. I still had shot well and plenty well enough to hunt out to further than I would ever take a shot with the short bow. However I didn’t like knowing that I could outshoot my bow and that it was limiting my ability to shoot better.

I don’t feel like I’m some great archer but I defiantly noticed I shot worse over time with my shorter bow than the previous couple of bows. I also noticed my groups improved going back to a longer bow. I had been shooting the short bow for over 3 years and shooting it a lot and the longer bows were two different models I never shot before and went even set to my draw length. I decided to buy a 10+ old Strothers target bow as a backup bow and shot it so much better than my RX4 that I decided to sell the RX4 and purchase a longer ATA hunting bow for next fall.

I’m trying to offer advice on my own personal experience. I really only try to offer advice or comment on things I feel like in have some experience with. I normally only replace my bow every 5-8yrs and just decided to dump my shorter Hoyt sooner than that because of exactly what the OP was asking about. I’m very happy to be rid of the shorter bow and am confident my shooting will improve moving forward and will never own a short ATA or recommend one moving forward.

 

[Zac]

I posted earlier from personal experience and lost accuracy from moving to a shorter bow. I guess I’d rather not be the guy that tells someone it’s not a bow issue it’s a shooter issue and have him be frustrated for years. I really got in my own head thinking I was just shooting worse, kind of summed it up to maybe just getting older and not as accurate as I had been in the past. I shot some longer ATA bows and my groups shrank and they easier to obtain.

I shoot a lot and have a 100 yard range at the house. I still had shot well and plenty well enough to hunt out to further than I would ever take a shot with the short bow. However I didn’t like knowing that I could outshoot my bow and that it was limiting my ability to shoot better.

I don’t feel like I’m some great archer but I defiantly noticed I shot worse over time with my shorter bow than the previous couple of bows. I also noticed my groups improved going back to a longer bow. I had been shooting the short bow for over 3 years and shooting it a lot and the longer bows were two different models I never shot before and went even set to my draw length. I decided to buy a 10+ old Strothers target bow as a backup bow and shot it so much better than my RX4 that I decided to sell the RX4 and purchase a longer ATA hunting bow for next fall.

I’m trying to offer advice on my own personal experience. I really only try to offer advice or comment on things I feel like in have some experience with. I normally only replace my bow every 5-8yrs and just decided to dump my shorter Hoyt sooner than that because of exactly what the OP was asking about. I’m very happy to be rid of the shorter bow and am confident my shooting will improve moving forward and will never own a short ATA or recommend one moving forward.

He never had an issue! How many times do I have to say that. His issue is everyone telling him that he does have one.

 

[nphunter]

He never had an issue! How many times do I have to say that. His issue is everyone telling him that he does have one.

He is asking people’s thoughts on buying a longer ATA and said he is considering buying one because they are more forgiving.

He says he has shot some good groups and If he’s happy with his groups than there is no reason to upgrade. If he’s wondering if a longer bow would be more forgiving the answer is yes. Does he need it, I have no idea, not for me to decide. He literally ask for people thoughts and that’s what he’s getting.

My thought is he could shoot better with a longer bow new or used than he can shoot now. If he bought the longer version of the same bow he is shooting he would most likely shoot it better more often. Obviously your thought is he should keep his bow, I really don’t care one way or the other what he does. I sold my short bow and it really didn’t cost me anything to upgrade to a longer bow just some buying and selling and I’m happy I did.

Both of us are just offering our opinions only the OP can decide what’s best for him.

 

[cuttingedge]

@WCB fair point, shooting daily is the biggest difference. I need to setup a way to shoot easier when it is cold and dark. I know some guys shoot a couple shots in their garage - but my garage space is only like 20'.
Maybe it would be better than nothing. Need a good bag to stop an arrow at that distance though!

Someone might have already said it, but even shooting at only 20' will still help. Form and the release of the arrow can be worked at any distance. When I used to shoot 3d a lot, my friend would say, shoot center of center and shoot your form. Having solid, repeatable form to me matters more than bow specs.

I owned an Athens Vista 31 and 33 at the same time. Even though the 33 had a longer ATA, I just plain shot the 31 better. Should have been the opposite, but it wasn't.

Right now I own 34" and a 29.5" ATA bows. I don't know that I shoot the shorter bow better, but I enjoy shooting it more and it shoots plenty good for what I'm going to do with it. It's not an indoor spot bow, it's a hunting bow.

 

[Zac]

He is asking people’s thoughts on buying a longer ATA and said he is considering buying one because they are more forgiving.

He says he has shot some good groups and If he’s happy with his groups than there is no reason to upgrade. If he’s wondering if a longer bow would be more forgiving the answer is yes. Does he need it, I have no idea, not for me to decide. He literally ask for people thoughts and that’s what he’s getting.

My thought is he could shoot better with a longer bow new or used than he can shoot now. If he bought the longer version of the same bow he is shooting he would most likely shoot it better more often. Obviously your thought is he should keep his bow, I really don’t care one way or the other what he does. I sold my short bow and it really didn’t cost me anything to upgrade to a longer bow just some buying and selling and I’m happy I did.

Both of us are just offering our opinions only the OP can decide what’s best for him.

Everyone here needs look at the bigger picture. Everybody took the click bait and ran with it. The word forgiveness is just getting tossed everywhere. So why don’t people talk to him about forgiveness then. Brace, let off, reflex, tuning. Anyone want to mention any of those? Nope none of that here, just false promises that if he goes and spends a grand or more on something long he’ll have much better results.

 

[nphunter]

Everyone here needs look at the bigger picture. Everybody took the click bait and ran with it. The word forgiveness is just getting tossed everywhere. So why don’t people talk to him about forgiveness then. Brace, let off, reflex, tuning. Anyone want to mention any of those? Nope none of that here, just false promises that if he goes and spends a grand or more on something long he’ll have much better results.

I mentioned all those things in post #22.

“The most accurate bows have, longer ATA, larger BH and very little reflex or some deflex in the riser. Target bows aren't being sold or advertised to shoot from blinds or stands or pack around the woods they are made to be as accurate and forgiving as possible.”

Also people are talking about one specific aspect because that is what the OP asked about. He’s asking about going from a 28” bow to a 33-34” bow.

Besides longer bows typically have less reflex and longer BH, if comparing the same manufactures bows. The Mathews lift is a good example, the longer bow goes from 6 to 6.5” BH and has noticeable less reflex. The PSE Mach is another good example, compared to the Mach 31 the Mach 34 has a longer ATA, longer BH and much less reflex.

 

[stanginthe11s]

lol, look, I stated there's no debating most people shoot better with a long ATA. you cannot look at target bows and decide they're better just because they are labeled as such. you cannot look at an Olympic archer and think you can be him/her just because you use that bow. ATA is not the deciding factor of a good bow, in fact its probably the least. long ATA bows have issues also but if you don't understand them then what's the point.
NPhunter, I cannot argue that you shot better when you switched. in fact, I am not surprised in the least. what you and many fail to realize is that the bow only helped hide your imperfections. when you except that, you can move on and become better.
I can tell you that there is no difference for me no matter what bow I shoot. when we compete, we are not worried about the same things as hunting. to me, competing is easier than hunting as only my pride is on the line. the bow I choose has nothing to do with ATA, in fact, I have used my short ATA hunting bow to beat many target shooters. the difference is I have less room for error, that's it.
very few people have the time and dedication to shoot at a level where bow choice doesn't matter much. if you want to spend 1500$ and skip the lessons, go for it. if you really want to be good, use the short ATA bow and learn your imperfections. at the end of the day its not the bow, its the shooter. and what you decide is simply your choice alone.

 

[Stache Attack]

Really depends on how it fits you, you have a 28” ata with dinner plate cams and relatively stiff limbs. A 33-34” bow with smaller cams would give you a similar angle possibly. You’re looking for a string angle that naturally fits your face well. ATA and brace height isn’t as important now as it once was.

 

[InteriorAKPopsicle]

I’m curious, what were the broadheads?

OCD BloodTherapy.

 

[AG8]

OCD BloodTherapy.

Wow, those are wild! Haha, nope, I had never heard of that before either.

 

[cuttingedge]

To add, my 29.5" bow has a 7 inch brace height. This absolutely aids in its shootability. If anyone is curious, it's the new Darton Consequence. Street price is $650.

 

[InteriorAKPopsicle]

Wow, those are wild! Haha, nope, I had never heard of that before either.

yeah there was a ProShop that used to be here and they recommended them very highly.
They talked about them using them on moose and really liked them. Now they are closed down and nobody knows what they are. HAHA.