Tipping a hunting guide

[fatlander]

The thing that gets me is guides work for tips, but guided hunts cost multiple times more than drop camps run by the same outfitter. You’re not eating thousands of dollars in camp food while on a 5 day hunt. . .


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[kiddogy]

The thing that gets me is guides work for tips, but guided hunts cost multiple times more than drop camps run by the same outfitter. You’re not eating thousands of dollars in camp food while on a 5 day hunt. . .


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no but you are gaining access to hunting wisdom. if it's not needed go DIY.
personally ,I would rather eat tag soup , then have to be led like a child to the killing feild.

I've nothing in particular against those who need guides . its just not for me . if I can't do it for myself ,it ain't worth doing.


I does make me chuckle though when one spends 20 grand to hunt private land and they basically do nothing but pull the trigger ,then brag about what a great hunter they are. I'VE more respect for a 7 year old who kills their first doe with daddies help.

 

[fatlander]

no but you are gaining access to hunting wisdom.

You already paid for the guide then.



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[GotDraw?]

Noone, it's just the number of posts you read about guides 'losing money' while they guide and how tipping is a reflection on the client (mentioned above). The whole tipping mentality is ridiculous...........I paid the outfitter for a hunting trip or fishing trip, they should pay their employees..............

@bozeman

Wow

While I agree with you in principle that guides (and especially restaurants) should "pay" their employees well, the stark reality that "the whole tipping mentality" that you protest and that you and I both have to deal is how the system presently works. Period.

If the system was changed so Outfitters and restaurants had to pay their staff well, then Outfitters and restaurants would all raise their rates by at least 10-25% to cover paying guides/waitstaff, and covering the cost of unemployment tax, social security, other benefits, etc...

If Outfitters and restaurants raised prices that much, then I'd venture a heavy bet that you and everyone else who protests tipping by not doing so or low balling and cheap skating would howl and scream in protest about the tremendous increase in guided hunt prices and restaurant food.

"Protesting" the present tipping system by giving the guide who worked his ass off for you a cheap shot below the below belt and short changing him after he worked his ass off for you for days is simply putting a knife in the back of the one person who generally tries the hardest for you and by far has the least power. The guide is the one person who probably most needs the money. That kind of attitude smells an awful lot like the attitude of someone who is generally cheap and has simply created self-serving arguments to "justify" low balling or cheap skating.

If you think most guides or outfitters are overpaid, I suggest you live in an outfitter's trailer and work his hours. I suggest you play packer and come home to your wife when it's time pay the rent with the low-ball or zero tip that some client self justified.

I will tell you that my brother and I tipped our packer this year a solid 20+% (even though our hunt was unsuccessful) because he had a great attitude, he worked his ass off, and that tip was going to make his week w/o heavily impacting my lifestyle for that month. AND- I was happy to give it him so he could have a big smile on his face when he went home to his wife.

My straightforward guess is that most folks simply don't factor the over/under range of a tip into the price of their hunt until the time is upon them, then they shit their pants and get tight-fisted when they realize that they should tip their guide at least 10% of the hunt if the guide worked hard. Here's how I look at it-- A skilled waiter at a fine restaurant can easily sell $1000 a night in food/wine- and will generally expect 15-20% in tips for working in an air conditioned space, bringing you some food, opening some wine... all while while not getting rained on and going home to sleep in a warm bed for 8 hours. So, if you bought $5,000 worth of food at a restaurant, told the waiter you expected him to get cold, get wet, sleep little, get exhausted, not bathe, work 15+ hours a days and then when that large bill came? Well... you paid him back with a handshake, a smile and a zero or cheap skate tip?! There are probably a lot of Italian restaurants where you'd come out to flat tires

Wow.

JL

 

[MattB]

This debate reminds me of the folks who complained when recent presidents were elected who won the electoral majority but lost the popular vote. Sour grapes over the system being based on the widely understood rules and not the rules they think should be in place.

 

[colonel00]

My thoughts, I don't tip the owner if he/she is the guide as they are already making the money. If it's an employee, my expectation is to tip when they go above and beyond and/or provide good service, much like a server at a restaurant. Any lacky can bring you food or take you into the field but they need to "earn" the tip. At the same time, I'm happy to say that I've always been happy to provide a tip for guides (only fishing trips, never had a guide for hunting) based on their efforts, not the results.

To me, the issue is the "entitlement" of a tip regardless of effort output. I'm sorry if the employer isn't paying the guide enough with the expectation that the guide will make tips. The tip should be earned, not expected.

Totally unrelated but I always used to bet pissed when I'd go to Sonic and somehow you were expected to tip the person that walked 20 feet to bring you your food. They didn't take the order or provide any other service other than the service that was required based on how the business was setup. It's not my fault that there is no drive through or counter that I can order from. Therefore, it's not my obligation to supplement the income of the employee because the business/owner doesn't properly compensate them.

And don't get me started on Valet folks that want a tip for parking your car when you don't have a choice to park elsewhere or other people who seem to be put in a situation where they "work" for tips.

I have spent most of my adult life in the moving industry. The guys that come in and move your house or office or whatever. Those guys aren't paid "enough" either for the work they do but they don't expect a tip. However, when people ask me about tipping, I first suggest buying them drinks (cold water, Gatorade, etc.) and lunch and then if they exceed their expectations, tip them cash as you see fit. Maybe $20-50 or whatever.

My point is the employee has accepted the deal to work for a wage. If they want a tip, they have to earn the extra money. It shouldn't be expected. If their wage expectation is based on getting a 10% tip on every hunt then roll that into the cost and the outfitter should just pay them accordingly.

Remember, a tip is also known as a gratuity (gratitude) and not an expectantory, intitledtory, iwantatory, ideserveatory, etc.

 

[GotDraw?]

@colonel00
Gotta say that I generally agree w/you RE tipping/entitlement. Especially with this growing standard of counter clerks at many stores expecting a tip for handing you a bag of cookies or scooping some ice cream. That one really chafes me.

The real issue with hunting guides is lack of transparency. Outfitters don't tell clients how much they do or don't pay their guides. This leaves clients in the awkward position of having to guess, and in order to give the guide the benefit of the doubt, clients are stuck assuming that guides make virtually nothing. Thus, the tip is effectively presumed to be most if not all of the guide's compensation for many full days of work. I don't tip the outfitter, but I take very good care of guides/packers. I would rather err on the side of caution and give guides/packers the benefit of the doubt. I have not had a lazy one, ever.

JL

My thoughts, I don't tip the owner if he/she is the guide as they are already making the money. If it's an employee, my expectation is to tip when they go above and beyond and/or provide good service, much like a server at a restaurant. Any lacky can bring you food or take you into the field but they need to "earn" the tip. At the same time, I'm happy to say that I've always been happy to provide a tip for guides (only fishing trips, never had a guide for hunting) based on their efforts, not the results.

To me, the issue is the "entitlement" of a tip regardless of effort output. I'm sorry if the employer isn't paying the guide enough with the expectation that the guide will make tips. The tip should be earned, not expected.

Totally unrelated but I always used to bet pissed when I'd go to Sonic and somehow you were expected to tip the person that walked 20 feet to bring you your food. They didn't take the order or provide any other service other than the service that was required based on how the business was setup. It's not my fault that there is no drive through or counter that I can order from. Therefore, it's not my obligation to supplement the income of the employee because the business/owner doesn't properly compensate them.

And don't get me started on Valet folks that want a tip for parking your car when you don't have a choice to park elsewhere or other people who seem to be put in a situation where they "work" for tips.

I have spent my adult live in the moving industry. The guys that come in and move your house or office or whatever. Those guys aren't paid "enough" either for the work they do but they don't expect a tip. However, when people ask me about tipping, I first suggest buying them drinks (cold water, Gatorade, etc.) and then if they exceed their expectations, tip them cash as you see fit. Maybe $20-50 or whatever.

My point is the employee has accepted the deal to work for a wage. If they want a tip, they have to earn the extra money. It shouldn't be expected. If their wage expectation is based on getting a 10% tip on every hunt then roll that into the cost and the outfitter should just pay them accordingly.

Remember, a tip is also known as a gratuity (gratitude) and not an expectantory, intitledtory, iwantatory, ideserveatory, etc.

 

[colonel00]

@colonel00
Gotta say that I generally agree w/you RE tipping/entitlement. Especially with this growing standard of counter clerks at many stores expecting a tip for handing you a bag of cookies or scooping some ice cream. That one really chafes me.

The real issue with hunting guides is lack of transparency. Outfitters don't tell clients how much they do or don't pay their guides. This leaves clients in the awkward position of having to guess, and in order to give the guide the benefit of the doubt, clients are stuck assuming that guides make virtually nothing. Thus, the tip is effectively presumed to be most if not all of the guide's compensation for many full days of work. I don't tip the outfitter, but I take very good care of guides/packers. I would rather err on the side of caution and give guides/packers the benefit of the doubt. I have not had a lazy one, ever.

JL

Well said.

And don't get me started on all of those payment machines like you mention where it guilts you into giving a tip for counter service.

 

[Buckshot85]

Like it or not, here’s my take on tipping the owner who’s guiding you.
I can understand the point about why tip the owner who’s guiding you, you all ready paid him for the hunt. True.
But, while he is guiding you he is not running the business...shuffling clients in and out, keeping the camp logistics in order, following up on any guide/client issues, etc.....
I see the cost of the hunt including far more than just pure profit for the owner.
I have a couple hunts coming up the next two falls. One being guided by the owner. A back country horse pack in elk hunt. I will tip the owner. It’s up to him if he accepts it.
I’ve been on hunts where the owner/guide would not accept the tip. I was told to take care of the staff.
I’ve guided black bear hunts for an outfitter in Canada. I was able to see what goes on behind the scenes and what it takes to run the camp.
If you tip and who you tip is a personal thing.
Some of the blanket statements in this thread are ignorant. Again, just my opinion.
For the record, I’m a blue collar factory stiff. 52 yo and trying check off bucket list items before it’s too late. I choose guided hunts because vacation is hard to come by and don’t have time to scout for critters in unknown lands. It surely isn’t because I have disposable income. To the contrary. And, it’s hardly being led to a cornered animal and just pulling the trigger. I only hunt fair chase and have come without punching a tag.

 

[bozeman]

Ha- love the ‘being cheap’ comments. Really cracks me up..........it’s evident, many have no clue.

 

[High Voltage]

I must confess I too am tip illiterate. I didn’t realize that one should tip alot of jobs. Like the cement truck driver, gravel truck driver, and so on. I just built a house last year, and never gave it a thought that alot of people tip these guys. Should I have tipped the general contractor? I grew up on a farm, and if I didn’t do a good job that’s when you could say I got a TIP.

 

[Michael54]

I must confess I too am tip illiterate. I didn’t realize that one should tip alot of jobs. Like the cement truck driver, gravel truck driver, and so on. I just built a house last year, and never gave it a thought that alot of people tip these guys. Should I have tipped the general contractor? I grew up on a farm, and if I didn’t do a good job that’s when you could say I got a TIP.

You don't tip the cement truck driver or the gravel truck driver or the general contactor. The 20% markup on materials that they give you is more than enough. If my company ever found that out the drivers would probably be disciplined for accepting it.

 

[Michael54]

Ive only ever went on two guided hunts. One was a bear hunt with hounds in maine where the guys dogs got on a fox or a coyote and ran in a straight line out of range of his tracking collars and we spent the rest of the day and the next day looking for his hounds. Outfitter reimbursed us half of our hunt price and gave us a hunt the next year at a discounted rate. I still tipped the guide, it was minimal but he still got one. Second one was a trip in wyoming with family that had never been out west. We all tagged out in the first half of the first day the guide immediately offered to take us fishing and gave us several locations that we might want to see before we headed home and we tipped generously. Stiffing a guide regardless of the way the hunt went or the outcome is just wrong. Especially if its your lack of personal preparation that made the hunt go sour.

 

[High Voltage]

You don't tip the cement truck driver or the gravel truck driver or the general contactor. The 20% markup on materials that they give you is more than enough. If my company ever found that out the drivers would probably be disciplined for accepting it.

Ok thx. Like I said I’m ignorant to who all gets tipped, because I never worked at a job that received them I guess.
When I poured a couple small entry pads to my shop, and garage I had my neighbor help. The cement truck driver was helpful on some advice, and helped a little moving some mud. When he left my neighbor asked if I had tipped him, and I said it never occurred to me I was supposed to. Well he did, so I rein burst him. Then I had some crushed rock delivered, and they driver came out of the truck and started up with some small talk that seemed a bit forced. After he left it dawned on me that maybe he was waiting for me to tip him to.

 

[Michael54]

Ok thx. Like I said I’m ignorant to who all gets tipped, because I never worked at a job that received them I guess.
When I poured a couple small entry pads to my shop, and garage I had my neighbor help. The cement truck driver was helpful on some advice, and helped a little moving some mud. When he left my neighbor asked if I had tipped him, and I said it never occurred to me I was supposed to. Well he did, so I rein burst him. Then I had some crushed rock delivered, and they driver came out of the truck and started up with some small talk that seemed a bit forced. After he left it dawned on me that maybe he was waiting for me to tip him to.

We pay our cement truck drivers on 8 hr minimums so the faster the job finishes the more per hour they make. Our stone truck drivers get paid by the ton but we do add in extra fees that transfer to the driver like if you wanted it tailgated down your driveway or dumped in a very hard to get to location. Our rule of thumb for stone is if its going to take the driver longer than 10 minutes to offload and leave we upcharge the delivery and pass it on to the driver.

 

[MtnOyster]

I'm just curious, how many on this thread gross a $1000 a day income?

 

[Buckshot85]

Sure as hell not me.

 

[PA Hunter]

I always tip the guide, the wrangler, the camp cook ect. I don’t tip based on success but rather how hard my guide worked for me. A previous camp cook was so thankful for our decent tips he told us of hunters giving him twenty bucks and how pissed off that made him and he felt degraded. I felt bad for the guy he worked his tail off cooking great meals in the middle of nowhere. I know the guides don’t make that much so I try to be generous as I do appreciate what they do.

 

[PA Hunter]

Being a former guide myself...Tip what you feel is right. However If you don't tip I wouldn't plan on coming back for a 2nd hunt. I made $500 a week as base pay. This was 1 month of horse pack in elk hunting and 1.5 months of private land guiding deer, elk, antelope. work was typically 15-20hrs a day. I got tipped anywhere from $100 up to over $1500 for a standard 5 or 7 day hunt per hunter. I know for a fact most of my tips were well over 10% but I would like to think that was due to the job I did. Most hunts were 2 on 1 and I would say most guys tipped me separately and mostly equally. I only expected to make $500 a week and tips were up to my clients and I was treated well by my clients...I understood that going in, same as a restaurant server.

Most of the time talking tips with clients is a no no, but I had some pretty honest conversations with clients on their first hunt that didn't know the "rules" , for lack of a better term. I would tell them basic line of thinking is 10% of the hunt. But told them to tip based on their experience and how well you think I , the guide, worked for them to make the trip what they expected it to be. I would also remind them to make sure they take care of the camp cook or camp jack again based on quality of service. I took care of the client from the time they arrived to the time they left, often taking them sight seeing or fishing, borrowing them gear if needed.

The largest tip I received, the hunter filled his deer tag first morning and antelope tag the second morning,hunting a total of maybe 4 hrs. Both were really nice animals that I had scouted and patterned when both my prior clients also filled out and left early due to me also pre-scouting. Another client had a limited draw tag for Antelope, and the only tag any of our clients had for that unit. Due to my work of scouting before he arrived we killed the biggest buck I found in a week of dedicated scouting first light first morning of his hunt...My point of these two situations is to show that sometimes the work is done before clients arrive and so if you are basing your tips off duration of hunt for the sake of duration you may not be seeing the forest through the trees. I mean if a client wanted to I guess I could have took them on a scenic tour to the same destination but most of my clients were blue collar guys that saved for years for the hunt.

I have now gone on a 3 outfitted big game hunts as a client. Two of them I did not shoot an animal and tipped over 10% because of the work the guides put in and the fact that on one hunt we saw plenty of decent animals just not one I wanted.

I completely agree with you.

 

[bozeman]

I always tip the guide, the wrangler, the camp cook ect. I don’t tip based on success but rather how hard my guide worked for me. A previous camp cook was so thankful for our decent tips he told us of hunters giving him twenty bucks and how pissed off that made him and he felt degraded. I felt bad for the guy he worked his tail off cooking great meals in the middle of nowhere. I know the guides don’t make that much so I try to be generous as I do appreciate what they do.

A $20 tip and he felt 'degraded'? Ungrateful much? Money is money no matter how little or how much...…...this further proves my point. Sounds the like the $15/hour minimum wage group...….I choose to flip burgers so I deserve $15/hour...…….if someone doesn't like the pay, find another job.