Thought I had settled on a good "first rifle + glass" combo, less sure now

[BAC]

A fair bit of research into a good all-purpose, mild mannered hunting rifle for both me and the kids to learn on landed me on a Savage 110 Lightweight Storm in 7mm-08, with a Leupold Mark 3HD 4-12x40 firedot and some lightweight rings from Talley or something. Eventual replacement of stock with Mesa Precision Altitude and threading muzzle for Thunder Beast Ultra 5. The plan sounded great until I'm starting to read here that maybe we shouldn't be starting our small kids on a 7mm-08. I might be taking for granted the substantial mass difference between myself and the rest of the family and what would be mild in recoil for me would still be pretty bruising for them.

So now I'm reconsidering the whole plan... again.

I'm reading up on this Rokslide Special and I'm not quite sure what it means. Generally it seems to be a Tikka gun in a lighter caliber? Possibly with a fixed power scope?

For discussion's sake: I had thought to make this a one-gun-buy to hunt deer and hog locally (FL) to learn on and get experience with before going out west and north for bigger game. It seemed like 7mm-08 was a great round for that but, like I said, maybe I'm overestimating what a small child would enjoy shooting. Whatever I pick I want to be fairly lightweight because I'm going to be backpacking or hiking in and out since that's part of the draw to the whole experience for me. Leupold offers a pretty substantial discount for me and seemed like the best lighter-weight solution for optics; whatever I get for glass, I'm very much drawn toward illuminated reticles due to some vision limitations.

Is the original plan still worth pursuing, or would I be better served by focusing my efforts first on a smaller caliber, milder recoiling rifle that can effectively hunt Southern game and be more suitable for kids and then later get a bigger thing to hunt bigger things with?

 

[Antares]

Tikka T3x Stainless Lite in .223 Rem (1:8 twist)
SWFA fixed 6x or 3-9x
Sportmatch or UM rings
Vertical grip
Chop barrel and thread for suppressor if you can swing it

Everyone in your family will enjoy shooting that gun. Hornady Frontier 68 and 75 BTHP are cheap as heck and shoot pretty good in mine.

 

[Hnthrdr]

Or if you want a “more versatile” rifle as a lot of western states do not allow for .223 to take some or any big game. .243, 6.5 CM, up to a .308 same thing, chop and thread, suppress Rokslide specials typically have Swfa, but I’d argue you can put any scope from the more reliable manufacturers and be fairly confident it will hold zero. iE trijicon, NF, Swfa

 

[hereinaz]

For learning, .223 with a suppressor will make an amazing experience.

Check out the .223 77 gr Sierra TMK thread and you’ll see you can hunt bear, elk, and moose.

On the Rokslide Special, get the scope you want, but check out reviews. The SWFA are known to be bombproof and budget friendly if you can find them.

 

[Marbles]

I would vote for a 223 Tikka and add a 7-08 Tikka in a year or two. Get the T3x lite and not the fluted superlite if you might want to cut the barrel at some point.

If on a budget,
-Blued is cheaper thn stainless.
-Sportsmatch rings are pretty cheap and quality.
-Trijicon is probably your best bet for a scope with an illuminated reticle, or Night Force SHV

Forget about scopes under 18 ounces.

 

[The Guide]

A fair bit of research into a good all-purpose, mild mannered hunting rifle for both me and the kids to learn on landed me on a Savage 110 Lightweight Storm in 7mm-08, with a Leupold Mark 3HD 4-12x40 firedot and some lightweight rings from Talley or something. Eventual replacement of stock with Mesa Precision Altitude and threading muzzle for Thunder Beast Ultra 5. The plan sounded great until I'm starting to read here that maybe we shouldn't be starting our small kids on a 7mm-08. I might be taking for granted the substantial mass difference between myself and the rest of the family and what would be mild in recoil for me would still be pretty bruising for them.

So now I'm reconsidering the whole plan... again.

I'm reading up on this Rokslide Special and I'm not quite sure what it means. Generally it seems to be a Tikka gun in a lighter caliber? Possibly with a fixed power scope?

For discussion's sake: I had thought to make this a one-gun-buy to hunt deer and hog locally (FL) to learn on and get experience with before going out west and north for bigger game. It seemed like 7mm-08 was a great round for that but, like I said, maybe I'm overestimating what a small child would enjoy shooting. Whatever I pick I want to be fairly lightweight because I'm going to be backpacking or hiking in and out since that's part of the draw to the whole experience for me. Leupold offers a pretty substantial discount for me and seemed like the best lighter-weight solution for optics; whatever I get for glass, I'm very much drawn toward illuminated reticles due to some vision limitations.

Is the original plan still worth pursuing, or would I be better served by focusing my efforts first on a smaller caliber, milder recoiling rifle that can effectively hunt Southern game and be more suitable for kids and then later get a bigger thing to hunt bigger things with?

My daughter and son both started hunting (@10 year old) with Howa Mini Action 6.5 Grendel rifles. They can be gotten for around $550 with a scope and a threaded barrel. That round is adequate for deer and hog and short range (under 300 yards) elk. It isn't the perfect solution for everyone but you could get a scoped Howa Mini Action in 223 and one in 6.5 Grendel for the price of 1 Tikka when you add rings, a scope, and threading for brake/can and have a very light recoiling rifle for practice and kids yet still have a rifle for hunting that can cleanly take larger game in areas that restrict 22 caliber and 243 caliber cartridges from hunting big game.

My daughter shot her Grendel for 2 season and then we switched her to a 243. She hated the recoil impulse of the 243 even with light for caliber bullets so back to the Grendel she went. She now @ 15 year old shoots a Tikka in 6.5CM and does great with it but when she wants to have fun or needs a conference boost she shoots a box of ammo through the Grendel.

5 shots at 100 yards through her Howa Mini Action in 6.5 Grendel when she was 11. She was mad because she though she was missing the target.


This is the buck she shot that fall. One shot through the lungs with a 120 grain NBT.


Good luck with what ever you decide to purchase and take your kids out as much as possible.

Jay

 

[BAC]

You know, I had resigned myself to a rifle now and another later, but I completely forgot about the 6.5 Grendel. Checking my notes that's only a hair "harder" recoiling than 5.56 and is on paper less than 7.62x39. I think that might be the ticket. Good call Guide, that looks like a great choice for a rifle that can hunt coast to coast and still be very pleasant to shoot.

Right now I'm seeing a Trijicon 3-9 Credo for $521 shipped... that looks worth pulling the trigger on? At least I'll have the scope squared away. Then shop for one of these auction Howa Mini Actions on Gunbroker and hope it stays sub- to low-$400s. Sure would be nice getting the whole package for a grand.

 

[The Guide]

You know, I had resigned myself to a rifle now and another later, but I completely forgot about the 6.5 Grendel. Checking my notes that's only a hair "harder" recoiling than 5.56 and is on paper less than 7.62x39. I think that might be the ticket. Good call Guide, that looks like a great choice for a rifle that can hunt coast to coast and still be very pleasant to shoot.

Right now I'm seeing a Trijicon 3-9 Credo for $521 shipped... that looks worth pulling the trigger on? At least I'll have the scope squared away. Then shop for one of these auction Howa Mini Actions on Gunbroker and hope it stays sub- to low-$400s. Sure would be nice getting the whole package for a grand.

With the Grendel having ammo available for it at as little as $0.90 a round for bulk target stuff or $1.25 each for hunting rounds, you can get a lot of shooting in without even reloading. Many cartridges are 2x that much for loaded ammo. Take a look at ammoseek.com to verify prices. If I were you, I'd buy the Mini Action with the scope combo and spend $500 on ammo. The Niko Sterling scopes aren't that bad and once you have some trigger time on the rifle you will know where you feel the weaknesses are on the system and be able to upgrade your platform with confidence that you know what you want to upgrade and why.

Jay

 

[BAC]

Best I'm seeing the rifle+glass combo you mentioned is $611. That sound about right?

 

[The Guide]

Best I'm seeing the rifle+glass combo you mentioned is $611. That sound about right?

I've seen it as low as $530. I live in Montana so I don't pay sales tax. If you are seeing $611 with tax, that is pretty close.

Jay

 

[Macintosh]

Right now I'm seeing a Trijicon 3-9 Credo for $521 shipped... that looks worth pulling the trigger on? At least I'll have the scope squared away.

Yes, I now have 2, they have been low drama compared to other similar scopes Ive owned. I have no extensive history as both mine are new, but others have reported better durability and reliability than other 1” tube scopes. The only thing to check is the throw lever gets in the way of a 90-degree bolt throw—I had to take a hacksaw to the scope so it would work on my wifes kimber in order to clear the bolt knob without bleeding knuckles.

 

[menhaden_man]

With the Grendel having ammo available for it at as little as $0.90 a round for bulk target stuff or $1.25 each for hunting rounds, you can get a lot of shooting in without even reloading. Many cartridges are 2x that much for loaded ammo. Take a look at ammoseek.com to verify prices. If I were you, I'd buy the Mini Action with the scope combo and spend $500 on ammo. The Niko Sterling scopes aren't that bad and once you have some trigger time on the rifle you will know where you feel the weaknesses are on the system and be able to upgrade your platform with confidence that you know what you want to upgrade and why.

Jay

I’ve got this same set up but moved the niko scope to a pellet rifle and put a SWFA ultralight on there.

All three of my children have been shooting the 6.5 G Howa since about 7 years old. It’s dropped a couple animals with no problem. Fun gun to shoot suppressed.

Good luck.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

My oldest is 75#, when he shoots the 223 suppressed the recoil visibly shakes his body. He won't step up to the 6.5 creed for a long time, and even then only if the state regs require it.

 

[Turkeytider]

A fair bit of research into a good all-purpose, mild mannered hunting rifle for both me and the kids to learn on landed me on a Savage 110 Lightweight Storm in 7mm-08, with a Leupold Mark 3HD 4-12x40 firedot and some lightweight rings from Talley or something. Eventual replacement of stock with Mesa Precision Altitude and threading muzzle for Thunder Beast Ultra 5. The plan sounded great until I'm starting to read here that maybe we shouldn't be starting our small kids on a 7mm-08. I might be taking for granted the substantial mass difference between myself and the rest of the family and what would be mild in recoil for me would still be pretty bruising for them.

So now I'm reconsidering the whole plan... again.

I'm reading up on this Rokslide Special and I'm not quite sure what it means. Generally it seems to be a Tikka gun in a lighter caliber? Possibly with a fixed power scope?

For discussion's sake: I had thought to make this a one-gun-buy to hunt deer and hog locally (FL) to learn on and get experience with before going out west and north for bigger game. It seemed like 7mm-08 was a great round for that but, like I said, maybe I'm overestimating what a small child would enjoy shooting. Whatever I pick I want to be fairly lightweight because I'm going to be backpacking or hiking in and out since that's part of the draw to the whole experience for me. Leupold offers a pretty substantial discount for me and seemed like the best lighter-weight solution for optics; whatever I get for glass, I'm very much drawn toward illuminated reticles due to some vision limitations.

Is the original plan still worth pursuing, or would I be better served by focusing my efforts first on a smaller caliber, milder recoiling rifle that can effectively hunt Southern game and be more suitable for kids and then later get a bigger thing to hunt bigger things with?

Why not the Lightweight Storm in .223? Have you looked into a simple re-barrel of the gun you have? I have a 110 Storm ( not the Lightweight model ) in .223 and it`s been great.

 

[PNWGATOR]

Tikka T3x Stainless Lite in .223 Rem (1:8 twist)
SWFA fixed 6x or 3-9x
Sportmatch or UM rings
Vertical grip
Chop barrel and thread for suppressor if you can swing it

Everyone in your family will enjoy shooting that gun. Hornady Frontier 68 and 75 BTHP are cheap as heck and shoot pretty good in

I’d recommend this entire package except in Tikks’s compact model.

There are a lot of choices and combinations for cartridges, rifles and scopes.

The combination mentioned above, paired with 77TMKs, is a combination I would use to hunt anything in North America Period.

Lots of great information on the forum regarding bullets, hit rates, what’s important in scopes and how to assemble a delivery system that is as reliable as possible and how to purposely practice.

 

[Pickettpuncher]

There’s not much difference in your 7-08, and the 308, 243, or 6.5 cm mentioned above as far as recoil goes. Unless going to a 223, I’d keep what rifle you have. But would reevaluate the scope choice. I highly prefer a 3-9 over the fixed powers mentioned above, but I probably wouldn’t buy a leupold. The swfa gets great reviews, and trijicons can be bought for what you paid for the leupold.

If you reload, you can tame that 7-08 quite a bit. But if you don’t, that’s another rabbit to chase for another day.

 

[fwafwow]

Tikka T3x Stainless Lite in .223 Rem (1:8 twist)
SWFA fixed 6x or 3-9x
Sportmatch or UM rings
Vertical grip
Chop barrel and thread for suppressor if you can swing it

I’m “running” a version of this right now.

 

[Pickettpuncher]

You know, I had resigned myself to a rifle now and another later, but I completely forgot about the 6.5 Grendel. Checking my notes that's only a hair "harder" recoiling than 5.56 and is on paper less than 7.62x39. I think that might be the ticket. Good call Guide, that looks like a great choice for a rifle that can hunt coast to coast and still be very pleasant to shoot.

Right now I'm seeing a Trijicon 3-9 Credo for $521 shipped... that looks worth pulling the trigger on? At least I'll have the scope squared away. Then shop for one of these auction Howa Mini Actions on Gunbroker and hope it stays sub- to low-$400s. Sure would be nice getting the whole package for a grand.

One thing about the credo, the crosshairs are fine. Illumination helps that issue. But with kids it’s something else to mess with. I have 3 credos, 2 or the 2.5-15 and one 3-9. I like each of them, but the thin crosshairs in low light are hard to see. You might look at the Huron. It has a bit thicker reticle but isn’t illuminated. They’re starting at $300 on eurooptic, and they had a 10% off coupon floating around that I missed last week. Might even work on the credo, I’m not sure.

 

[jimh406]

Your original plan still make some sense. Depending on the size of the kid, maybe you want a shorter stock unless the Storm is the Accustock adjustable version. If it isn't go with a compact stock version.

A suppressor will drastically reduce the recoil, and you also could use a 120 gr load in the 7mm-08 to reduce it even more. You can also change the recoil pad to a Limbsaver which will also reduce felt recoil.

If they won't be carrying the gun, then consider going with a normal instead of lightweight gun and go with traditional steel base and rings and step up to the 5HD or similar weight scope that is quite a bit heavier. Or, go with a chassis type precision rifle that has more easy adjustments. https://gundigest.com/article/6-precision-rifles-bolt-action

Weight and stock fit are two of the biggest factors in felt recoil.

 

[Macintosh]

Beat me to it, but to echo the above post^^

Re:recoil. The problem with guns for kids is that they are light, and recoil more as a result. A 7-08 with factory 140 gr loads out of a 7.5lb rifle is 16ft lb of recoil, 16ft lb being something of a threshold above which it can be demonstrably quantified that grown men shoot worse compared to a lower-recoiling rifle. I think its clearly too much recoil for a kid. Not that it cant be done, its just clearly worse than a lower-recoiling round, with roughly zero advantage. 120gr barnes ttsx ammo at 3000fps is actually less recoil (14.5ftlb) and kills plenty well for any adult out to 400 yards where it runs out of velocity to expand at my typical elevation. The hornady reduced recoil 7-08 uses a 120gr sst at about 2700fps and generates something like 12ftlb of recoil, and also kills deer sized critters **quite** well. Just to manage recoil for a kid my suggestion would be to utilize a lower-recoiling loading if you stick with 7-08. A suppressor on any gun would also make a huge difference, as I think half the issue for a lot of kids is the muzzle blast and concussion, rather than just the recoil.