Thought I had settled on a good "first rifle + glass" combo, less sure now

[ResearchinStuff]

Matching 22 and 223 is the way to go. I messed that one up, need to get a hold of a t1x 22 soon.

 

[jimh406]

Of course, all of the game departments that require greater than .24 caliber for big game could be wrong.

In spite of people killing all kinds of animals with a .223 and even target bullets, they aren't made for big game. Sure, you can kill big game with any caliber and even a .22 LR or knife if you get close enough.

But, do you really want your child to start out hunting with the smallest possible weapon that requires the closest possible range and best possible shot? I think that's an unnecessary handicap even if some people here think it's "cool" and "trendy".

Obvious to some of.us and apparently not to others, looking for an optimum caliber instead of the minimum possible will probably yield better results. YMMV.

 

[Marbles]

Of course, all of the game departments that require greater than .24 caliber for big game could be wrong.

In spite of people killing all kinds of animals with a .223 and even target bullets, they aren't made for big game. Sure, you can kill big game with any caliber and even a .22 LR or knife if you get close enough.

But, do you really want your child to start out hunting with the smallest possible weapon that requires the closest possible range and best possible shot? I think that's an unnecessary handicap even if some people here think it's "cool" and "trendy".

Obvious to some of.us and apparently not to others, looking for an optimum caliber instead of the minimum possible will probably yield better results. YMMV.

Not one of those game departments can present anything other than opinion to support that. No evidence, no research.

You must believe suppressors are dangerous and magazines that hold 10ish rounds are too. Of course the fed and states could be wrong.

 

[Jayman_77]

A fair bit of research into a good all-purpose, mild mannered hunting rifle for both me and the kids to learn on landed me on a Savage 110 Lightweight Storm in 7mm-08, with a Leupold Mark 3HD 4-12x40 firedot and some lightweight rings from Talley or something. Eventual replacement of stock with Mesa Precision Altitude and threading muzzle for Thunder Beast Ultra 5. The plan sounded great until I'm starting to read here that maybe we shouldn't be starting our small kids on a 7mm-08. I might be taking for granted the substantial mass difference between myself and the rest of the family and what would be mild in recoil for me would still be pretty bruising for them.

So now I'm reconsidering the whole plan... again.

I'm reading up on this Rokslide Special and I'm not quite sure what it means. Generally it seems to be a Tikka gun in a lighter caliber? Possibly with a fixed power scope?

For discussion's sake: I had thought to make this a one-gun-buy to hunt deer and hog locally (FL) to learn on and get experience with before going out west and north for bigger game. It seemed like 7mm-08 was a great round for that but, like I said, maybe I'm overestimating what a small child would enjoy shooting. Whatever I pick I want to be fairly lightweight because I'm going to be backpacking or hiking in and out since that's part of the draw to the whole experience for me. Leupold offers a pretty substantial discount for me and seemed like the best lighter-weight solution for optics; whatever I get for glass, I'm very much drawn toward illuminated reticles due to some vision limitations.

Is the original plan still worth pursuing, or would I be better served by focusing my efforts first on a smaller caliber, milder recoiling rifle that can effectively hunt Southern game and be more suitable for kids and then later get a bigger thing to hunt bigger things with?

You’re on the right track. Being you plan to go suppressed recoil should be very reasonable. That cartridge is almost perfect for being versatile from most of not all North America big game.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[The Guide]

But, do you really want your child to start out hunting with the smallest possible weapon that requires the closest possible range and best possible shot? I think that's an unnecessary handicap even if some people here think it's "cool" and "trendy".

But, do you really want your child to start out hunting with the largest possible weapon that requires the furthest possible range and makes them so scared that they make the worst shot ever cause they are scared of the recoil? I think that's an unnecessary handicap even if you think it is appropriate.

I was started out with a 243 and shot it well. Killed an antelope with it when I was 12. My dad then moved me up into a 270 that same season because it "was a real man's rifle". Well, that Winchester M70 XTR Featherweight beat the tar out of me. It was too much recoil for me at that age and gave me some poor shooting habits that took me years to work out of myself. A child's first hunting experience should be relaxed, short range, and with a rifle that won't hurt them. Start them small and work up as they grow in experience and in stature. There are excellent factory offering in 223/6 ARC/6.5 Grendel that will be both soft on the shoulder and easy on the wallet allowing people to shoot volumes to build the basic fundamental skills needed to be a proficient and effective marksman in the field and at the range.

Jay

 

[Boltgun]

Correct sir. I see a few brands that offer some pretty compelling discounts, but with Trijicon their MSRP is so much higher than street price at Optics Planet or similar that I kind of doubt the discount would amount to less than what other vendors sell their scopes at. Maybe I'm wrong? They use ExpertVoice for verification so it doesn't seem to automatically display the discount like Leupold does.

Also, super disappointing to hear how many here say to pass on Leupold. I'd always held them in higher regard but I've also never humped one through the woods. Different uses, different outcomes.

Just ordered a credo HX 2.5-15 on expert voice actually. The price there was cheaper than anything else, although not by a huge margin.

 

[atmat]

If I had it to do over, I would have a matching 22lr and 223 for them to practice with.

My younger daughter that is shooting now is small and about 70lbs. Some days she can shoot 30 plus round of 50grn 223, shooting in different positions, and shooting better than most adults, but the recoil does eventually wear her out. Had her shoot some of my 77tmk loads kneeling off pack and offhand. That amount of recoil looked to be a bit much for her.

Had her shoot my heavy..ish 6.5 creed with a very soft load, and she didn't want to shoot it again. It is really easy to be too much recoil for them.

I’ve got matching 16” Tikka 233 and 22LR for that reason. Once Stocky’s releases their new T1x stock, they’ll be the exact same builds.

Of course, compacts will go on both as soon as my girls get just a bit older.

 

[Jayman_77]

Size them up to 460 Weatherby, #2 barrel contour

 

[Antares]

Of course, all of the game departments that require greater than .24 caliber for big game could be wrong.

In spite of people killing all kinds of animals with a .223 and even target bullets, they aren't made for big game. Sure, you can kill big game with any caliber and even a .22 LR or knife if you get close enough.

But, do you really want your child to start out hunting with the smallest possible weapon that requires the closest possible range and best possible shot? I think that's an unnecessary handicap even if some people here think it's "cool" and "trendy".

Obvious to some of.us and apparently not to others, looking for an optimum caliber instead of the minimum possible will probably yield better results. YMMV.

We got a live one, boys!

 

[ScreamingPotato]

Also, super disappointing to hear how many here say to pass on Leupold. I'd always held them in higher regard but I've also never humped one through the woods. Different uses, different outcomes.

It's very trendy on this forum to dog on Leupold. I'm not saying they're right or wrong but I've not seen the trend anywhere else. I will say after my 3/4 ton rocking up the mountain two weeks ago my (unloaded) rifle skipped over my backpack in the backseat and when I opened the door fell out knocking the door jam and landing directly on the scope on the rocks on the ground. That's a VX-5HD. I shot a test round, reticle didn't move at all. These guys do get to me and made me really nervous, but I've owned a lot of Leupolds over the years and never experienced any issues that they'd lead you to believe are so common.

 

[fwafwow]

It's very trendy on this forum to dog on Leupold. I'm not saying they're right or wrong but I've not seen the trend anywhere else. I will say after my 3/4 ton rocking up the mountain two weeks ago my (unloaded) rifle skipped over my backpack in the backseat and when I opened the door fell out knocking the door jam and landing directly on the scope on the rocks on the ground. That's a VX-5HD. I shot a test round, reticle didn't move at all. These guys do get to me and made me really nervous, but I've owned a lot of Leupolds over the years and never experienced any issues that they'd lead you to believe are so common.

Sounds like you have one that could be a good test subject!

 

[ScreamingPotato]

Sounds like you have one that could be a good test subject!

I'd rather not ever test it again lol. I did just purchase two Trijicon scopes, changing out the wife's Vortex and the other's going on my 6.8 SPC. I'm not brand loyal really, but I can honestly say I've had a dozen Leupold, mostly low end, and never a single time experienced the issues I'm supposed to. Every time I read the negative posts here I always wonder if there was some salty botched sponsorship deal here or something in the past that I'm not aware of.

 

[Hnthrdr]

It's very trendy on this forum to dog on Leupold. I'm not saying they're right or wrong but I've not seen the trend anywhere else. I will say after my 3/4 ton rocking up the mountain two weeks ago my (unloaded) rifle skipped over my backpack in the backseat and when I opened the door fell out knocking the door jam and landing directly on the scope on the rocks on the ground. That's a VX-5HD. I shot a test round, reticle didn't move at all. These guys do get to me and made me really nervous, but I've owned a lot of Leupolds over the years and never experienced any issues that they'd lead you to believe are so common.

If it makes you feel any better I didn’t have any personal problems with my VX5s. I have one on my hunting rifle this year, it will get swapped out after the hunt since I don’t have time to swap now, had problems with a couple vx-3’s.

 

[jimh406]

But, do you really want your child to start out hunting with the largest possible weapon that requires the furthest possible range and makes them so scared that they make the worst shot ever cause they are scared of the recoil?

Well, no. That's why I said optimum. There is no point in anyone trying to shoot more gun than they can shoot accurately no matter if they are a giant or child.

 

[4090Sharps]

Look at the 6mm ARC over the Grendel if you really think you want a caliber you can travel to other states with.

There will be a noticeable difference in recoil between a .223 and 6.5 Grendel to a recoil-sensitive kid. Both have limited recoil, but the Grendel will still be almost 2x the 223. 6mm ARC will split that difference.

 

[BAC]

6.5 Grendel is twice the recoil impulse as .223? I thought it was like a 1.5lb more, sitting right between .223 and 7.62x39.

 

[atmat]

Of course, all of the game departments that require greater than .24 caliber for big game could be wrong.

For elk in the CONUS, the majority of states require either .223 or .243. Some require 6.5, though, and still others .270.

So which game departments are wrong and on what basis of evidence?

 

[The Guide]

6.5 Grendel is twice the recoil impulse as .223? I thought it was like a 1.5lb more, sitting right between .223 and 7.62x39.

In an 8# rifle, a 223 is 3 to 6 ft/lb recoil energy depending upon load and bullet weight. In the same 8# rifle a 6.5 Grendel will have 7 to 9 ft/lbs recoil energy. To me, the recoil impulse is different between the two with the Grendel being a little longer and wider than the 223.

Jay

 

[4090Sharps]

In an 8# rifle, a 223 is 3 to 6 ft/lb recoil energy depending upon load and bullet weight. In the same 8# rifle a 6.5 Grendel will have 7 to 9 ft/lbs recoil energy. To me, the recoil impulse is different between the two with the Grendel being a little longer and wider than the 223.

Jay

That’s roughly what I came up with and have experienced in shooting the two. A 77gr 223 in a rifle weighing the same as a 6.5 Grendel shooting a 120 gr bullet will have twice the recoil. Roughly 4 ft/lb vs 8 ft/lb.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Just make it easy on yourself…

Tikka in .223, 6.5 CM, or .260
SWFA Fixed 6 or 3-9
Unknown Munitions Rings
Upgrade the stock or get a vertical grip until the Tikka Rock Stock is available.
Buy ammo and shoot it

Done.