The Shoot2hunt Podcast

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

Caylen and JVB both bashing the testing within days of each other is interesting. Wonder what inspired them to speak out at roughly the same time.

The "One Ring" gathering all its minions to organize an attack on common sense, evidence-based shooting.

 

[fwafwow]

A couple of ideas.

1. We pass the hat (again) to fund a pot of money that goes to the "challenger" if they are right and "we" are wrong
2. We find someone - maybe Garand Thumb - to watch or replicate the drop test. I don't watch all of his videos, but I've seen some, and he recently did a drop test on some pistols and it appeared that he was not pulling any punches as to manufacturers.

 

[Schmo]

We pass the hat (again) to fund a pot of money that goes to the "challenger" if they are right and "we" are wrong

I’m for it!

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

Caylen and JVB both bashing the testing within days of each other is interesting. Wonder what inspired them to speak out at roughly the same time.

WELL... since this is the shoot 2 hunt podcast thread. Remember how they talked about the human centipede? I'll let you decide if they are 2nd or 3rd in line respectively.

 

[Dave_S]

I'm about half an hour into to JVB and while I'm not sure how much more I'll listen to, I have to say, the disdain in his voice when he refers to @Formidilosus as "the guest" makes me laugh just as hard as the above mentioned fudd math.

 

[Lawnboi]

Caylen and JVB both bashing the testing within days of each other is interesting. Wonder what inspired them to speak out at roughly the same time.

The need to stay relevant.

 

[littlebigtine]

I honestly dont see how Form is any more “right” tham JVB or Caylen. When you boil these arguments down they are all soft science at best. First hand experiences. Form at least explains the boundaries of his testing and acknowledges the vast amount of variables involved but he also comes off a bit too sure of what somebody else should do imo. That being said I really dont care to argue with someone about what they should shoot with. If they ask me I will give them my opinion but ill try to layer that with as many declarations about my own bias as possible.
I think that Caylen and JVB are naive to discredit the momentum behind the smaller caliber movement but I also see how certain shot presentation would prefer more mustard. That is all to say that we are on the same team. Remember that. They are for hunting not peta. Lets support eachother and support open conversations(even if they dont).

 

[Dave_S]

I honestly dont see how Form is any more “right” tham JVB or Caylen. When you boil these arguments down they are all soft science at best. First hand experiences. Form at least explains the boundaries of his testing and acknowledges the vast amount of variables involved but he also comes off a bit too sure of what somebody else should do imo. That being said I really dont care to argue with someone about what they should shoot with. If they ask me I will give them my opinion but ill try to layer that with as many declarations about my own bias as possible.
I think that Caylen and JVB are naive to discredit the momentum behind the smaller caliber movement but I also see how certain shot presentation would prefer more mustard. That is all to say that we are on the same team. Remember that. They are for hunting not peta. Lets support eachother and support open conversations(even if they dont).

I think where some of those folks fall apart (whether regarding scope testing or smaller caliber useage) is they tend to contradict themselves and resort to arguments based on emotion rather than data.
As far as shot presentation: after a partial listen of the most recent JVB, he made that case. But nobody is out there forcing people to pull the trigger. I'm not accusing you of making this argument, but it does seem to creep up, and I just think it feels disingenuous. If you don't have a good shot, don't take it.

 

[Dobermann]

Yes, I agree with you.

For all we know, Caylen might be out in the woods by himself dropping his rifle on the ground, pulling his hair out, and having an existential crisis because his sponsor's scope won't hold zero and he doesn't know what to do with the info he's just gained. So he's decided to lie to keep his sponsorship.

But there are those that have some integrity and would change their public tune if they found out differently.

Let's not forget the podcast with Aron a few years back where some top comp shooters acknolwedged problems with big-name scopes that sponsor top shooters ... some people know there are issues, but still take the free gear, money, dinners, etc ...

 

[Dobermann]

Well that covers 79 % of it

Glad to be of service.

Someone else can cover the remaining 21% (less Form's contribution about rose-colored glasses) ...

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

I think where some of those folks fall apart (whether regarding scope testing or smaller caliber useage) is they tend to contradict themselves and resort to arguments based on emotion rather than data.
As far as shot presentation: after a partial listen of the most recent JVB, he made that case. But nobody is out there forcing people to pull the trigger. I'm not accusing you of making this argument, but it does seem to creep up, and I just think it feels disingenuous. If you don't have a good shot, don't take it.

^^^This right here, 100%. You have a choice to take a low percentage shot or not. Guys talk about hard quartering shots like they're mandatory, or something that hunters should always be looking to compensate for. Here's an idea, either wait or shift your position to get a higher percentage shot. "Somtimes there isn't time for that..." Well that's up to the trigger puller, but I would hope we're all considering the consequences of a high vs. low probability shot instead of a potentially losing a "trophy". I understand that animals can take a step or this and that, but the impact of this is compounded when you start with a low probability shot.

A week ago we literally had to wait 5 minutes in a snow storm laying prone for my daughter to get a slightly quartering away shot on a cow. First there was calf covering the vitals that had to clear. Then she started feeding straight away. Fortunately a mule deer came bounding into the scene and got the cow's attention, encouraging her to turn and open up the vitals. This was my daughter's first elk, and while we were all falling apart with adrenaline, we owe to these animals to make the right decision.

 

[wind gypsy]

But there are those that have some integrity and would change their public tune if they found out differently.

I would bet theres a number of sponsored Leupold shooters who do very well and are aware they aren't the most reliable options out there but yet they aren't tossing shade at Ryan/Form.

I dont think their integrity is lacking for endorsing a brand even if it's clearly not the "best" product available.

 

[huntnful]

I would bet theres a number of sponsored Leupold shooters who do very well and are aware they aren't the most reliable options out there but yet they aren't tossing shade at Ryan/Form.

I dont think their integrity is lacking for endorsing a brand even if it's clearly not the "best" product available.

I have a well off “influencer” buddy that’s a killing MF and is sponsored by vortex. I just straight up asked him “why do you use that shit if you don’t need the money?”

He was honest. He said he just liked the people that worked there and they treat him like a friend. And once you’re seasoned enough at hunting, it’s not that hard to kill animals. He’s never said they were the best. But good enough to kill animals.

Most all of these “influencer” killers would stack up animals with a ******* slingshot if need be lol. Killing an animal really is not difficult at all at a certain point. The difficulty only comes from being selective.

They look like legends to most people on social media because they stack up mediocre animals on every hunt and people think it’s because of their equipment. They’re just seasoned hunters and killing average animals is easy at that point.

 

[HighUintas]

Let's not forget the podcast with Aron a few years back where some top comp shooters acknolwedged problems with big-name scopes that sponsor top shooters ... some people know there are issues, but still take the free gear, money, dinners, etc ...

What podcast? I'd like to give that a listen. Haven't heard of this one.

 

[nksmfamjp]

Wallop x Oomph = Authority

That’s fuckin amazing. How do I apply that to 6UM or 6.5 Creedmoor?

 

[The Guide]

That’s fuckin amazing. How do I apply that to 6UM or 6.5 Creedmoor?

You can't. The Diameter Instituted Cartridge Killing factor isn't large enough. If the D.I.C.K. factor isn't large enough, when you multiply the wallop by the oomph you get negative authority. Therefore those cartridges have no authority on game animals. You really need a big D.I.C.K. factor like that found in .308 and .338 calibers to provide ample wallop and oomph to get the property authority for hunting fuddlore game animals.

Jay

 

[id_jon]

A couple of ideas.

1. We pass the hat (again) to fund a pot of money that goes to the "challenger" if they are right and "we" are wrong
2. We find someone - maybe Garand Thumb - to watch or replicate the drop test. I don't watch all of his videos, but I've seen some, and he recently did a drop test on some pistols and it appeared that he was not pulling any punches as to manufacturers.

Well we certainly don't have to worry about GT being loyal to anyone, so he has a shot of being unbiased at least

 

[Gorp2007]

Well we certainly don't have to worry about GT being loyal to anyone, so he has a shot of being unbiased at least

Between the drop tests, mud tests, and ice tests he’s done with pistols and rifles he’s certainly willing to make manufacturers upset. Plus I’m pretty sure he’s already in ID, so he’s practically local.

Just need Form to agree to use AAC ammo.

 

[Brontosaurus]

I like GT. Scope dropping with them as a third party would be awesome. Not to mention the amount of hilarious content that would come from Ryan and him being in the same room.

 

[Chris_in_Idaho]

Did we do this one? Jim misses BOAL because his Leupold lost zero.