The 'New' generation and the 'Web o Net'

[Nick Muche]

Either you got it or you don't...

 

[Desk Jockey]

I was just talking to my buddy today and its becoming really apparent that the new generation of hunters are trying to 're-invent' the sport.
Just because they hear or read about something on the Web o Net, it must be new...

...Everything from gear, and tactics to knowledge of the animals?

I am going to take a different line on this one fellas. I am in my early 40s. I grew up fishing a bit and hunted rabbits and birds here and there but never deer or anything bigger. About 3 years ago I got interested in deer hunting and started reading, watching and internetting to try to figure it out. About 2 years ago to the day, I bought a bow and have two seasons, 5 whitetail, two squirrels and, as of this weekend, a groundhog under my belt.

I am learning fast and planning for trips out west to take it to the next level.

Although I have talked to everyone under the sun, I am mostly self taught over the past few years. 6 hunting magazine subscriptions, dozen of books, 2-3 dvds, hunting shows, a shit ton of you tube videos and a mega shit ton of internetting.

I can honestly say, I wouldn't be as far along as I am if it weren't for the internet in particular, and even more particularly sites like these. I am not sure how much new information the internet is pumping out or even how much of it is really worthwhile, but it creates an access point for knuckleheads like me who are trying to figure it out.

 

[Nick Muche]

Good work Desk Jockey!!! Congrats on your success and hopefully there is much more ahead for you!

 

[cnelk]

Brad, instead of coming off like your bitching and moaning, why not step up to the plate and pass alone some of those skills, knowledge and improve so new-generation (which there are less and less of) abilities in the areas that actually count.

I didnt mean to sound like bitching and moaning, but man its heartbreaking to see all the money spent on stuff that are in hopes to get the inside track.

Elkyinzer said time and disposable income arent as abundant as they once were.
Im not so sure about that reading posts on some forums
But hey, if someone has the time and money, knock yourself out
My point is it just isnt needed to be successful - helpful maybe, but not needed - and the stuff certainly isnt new
Its been hashed and hashed

As far as stepping up to the plate and passing along some knowledge, each year I invite a 'newbie' to join my elk camp.
This year there will be 3 guys joining me that I have never met.
Im sure we will have a grand time chasing elk

I believe I have assisted 15 people take their first elk, so I guess I cant accused of not passing along my knowledge

Dotman mentioned a forum I started a few years ago and asked about the difference
It was founded on some friends helping friends, mostly posting some pics and hunting stories.
Just a small community that has linked up some great friends..

The biggest difference was [unlike most forums] there was no monetary gain for anyone involved
When you add $$$ to the equation, that is a BIG difference

BTW
I have never listened to a podcast in its entirety.
Tried one once, got bored

 

[WV Mountaineer]

I am not as old as Brad but, I've been around hunting and doing it for 35 years. Times are different.



I never hunted Colorado before 2006. But, I have hunted here and else where long before that. The older Ive gotten, the less time and money I have had to do the things I love. So, I am glad there is an excess of aides to help now.



However, I think Brad is referring to something different. Look at the classifieds here. Daily, someone is selling he latest and greatest tech clothes. The ones that make you hunt harder and stay longer. Look in the clothing section. Guys talk about dropping $2000 on an outfit to see if they like it. After saying they dropped $2000 last year on an outfit. It cracks me up. I read a thread the other day where a guy was asking which sitka jacket he needed for his back packing trip. He said he had used a different one last year but, wanted to know if this one was better. What he named he had bought but, was unsatisfied with cost $1400. He was fixing on dropping another $500 on what some else was telling him was a better fit for his situation. That blows my mind. I can get on Ebay and order a polyester spandex baselayer shirt for $8 TMD. Cold gear substitute compression shirt for $11 TMD. In other words, i have the same stuff the brand chasers have, except I bought it all for what they paid for a light jacket and ants set. To only sell because they were unsatisfied. It blows my mind.




I guess I too wonder about what it is like to spend $3000 a year on hunting clothes, to buy a $3000 spotter, to have a $400 tripod, $2500 bino's $1500 of bow and accessory's. $800 pack. $450 boots. $800 sleeping bag. etc.. I have made a lot of money at certain times in my life but, I could never afford to do that on top of hunt costs. I just wander how other people can and, how they justify it with their spouses and kids. I understand some of us has acquired nice stuff over time. But, that doesn't fit everyone or even most that seem to post here. This is happening everyday. Heck, I was reading a bike thread a wee ago and guys were talking about buying a $2500 bike like it was a flashlight. Blows my mind and makes me realize I must have really missed the boat. God Bless

 

[Bar]

That is sad. I still use a Woolrich wool jacket I bought in the early 60's. Still works ok for me. No fancy camo. Just plain old red and black plaid.

 

[Titan_Bow]

I am not as old as Brad but, I've been around hunting and doing it for 35 years. Times are different.



I never hunted Colorado before 2006. But, I have hunted here and else where long before that. The older Ive gotten, the less time and money I have had to do the things I love. So, I am glad there is an excess of aides to help now.



However, I think Brad is referring to something different. Look at the classifieds here. Daily, someone is selling he latest and greatest tech clothes. The ones that make you hunt harder and stay longer. Look in the clothing section. Guys talk about dropping $2000 on an outfit to see if they like it. After saying they dropped $2000 last year on an outfit. It cracks me up. I read a thread the other day where a guy was asking which sitka jacket he needed for his back packing trip. He said he had used a different one last year but, wanted to know if this one was better. What he named he had bought but, was unsatisfied with cost $1400. He was fixing on dropping another $500 on what some else was telling him was a better fit for his situation. That blows my mind. I can get on Ebay and order a polyester spandex baselayer shirt for $8 TMD. Cold gear substitute compression shirt for $11 TMD. In other words, i have the same stuff the brand chasers have, except I bought it all for what they paid for a light jacket and ants set. To only sell because they were unsatisfied. It blows my mind.




I guess I too wonder about what it is like to spend $3000 a year on hunting clothes, to buy a $3000 spotter, to have a $400 tripod, $2500 bino's $1500 of bow and accessory's. $800 pack. $450 boots. $800 sleeping bag. etc.. I have made a lot of money at certain times in my life but, I could never afford to do that on top of hunt costs. I just wander how other people can and, how they justify it with their spouses and kids. I understand some of us has acquired nice stuff over time. But, that doesn't fit everyone or even most that seem to post here. This is happening everyday. Heck, I was reading a bike thread a wee ago and guys were talking about buying a $2500 bike like it was a flashlight. Blows my mind and makes me realize I must have really missed the boat. God Bless

It's all about perspective and context I guess... While I understand what you are saying, I do spend quite a bit on quality gear. An EXO, Kifaru, or Stone Glacier pack for example, will pay for itself after a few successful hunts. I do tend to shop as wisely as I can, purusing sales, classifieds, camofire, etc. But I do have some quality gear.
What gets me, are the people that are complaining about how much a guy spent on his clothes, but they'll hunker down in their $50,000 fifth wheel, that they drug to the trailhead behind their $70,000 pickup truck, and then rode the FS rodes on their $10,000 ATV. But they wore an old school plaid wool shirt so they complain about the guy decked out in Kuiu.....
Its all about perspective I guess. I have buddies that drop a ton of money on golf.. To me, I just cannot fathom spending time and money to chase around a little white ball! I am sure they say the same of me and my hobbies

 

[Rob T]

Grumbling about younger generations is as old as time itself.

 

[theleo91386]

It aint new.
How the hell you think some of us old guys killed 100s of animals while most here were still trying to hit Cheerios in the toilet

I've always figured most stories from you old timers are the result of early onset dementia.

 

[DougP]

Grumbling about younger generations is as old as time itself.

Very true. And since the Middle Ages, every generation has out innovated and out produced the generation before. I’m not talking hunting here, just talking basic science and productivity of society.

I’m not old yet, mid thirties, but I’ve always promised myself I wouldn’t judge the next generations based on my biases because that always pissed me off when it was directed at me. That said, if the current college age candy asses would just stop getting their feelings hurt all the time...

Doug

 

[Bar]

Very true. And since the Middle Ages, every generation has out innovated and out produced the generation before. I’m not talking hunting here, just talking basic science and productivity of society.

I’m not old yet, mid thirties, but I’ve always promised myself I wouldn’t judge the next generations based on my biases because that always pissed me off when it was directed at me. That said, if the current college age candy asses would just stop getting their feelings hurt all the time...

Doug

Yeah, you will. Wait 40 years and see how you feel.

 

[WV Mountaineer]

It's all about perspective and context I guess... While I understand what you are saying, I do spend quite a bit on quality gear. An EXO, Kifaru, or Stone Glacier pack for example, will pay for itself after a few successful hunts. I do tend to shop as wisely as I can, purusing sales, classifieds, camofire, etc. But I do have some quality gear.
What gets me, are the people that are complaining about how much a guy spent on his clothes, but they'll hunker down in their $50,000 fifth wheel, that they drug to the trailhead behind their $70,000 pickup truck, and then rode the FS rodes on their $10,000 ATV. But they wore an old school plaid wool shirt so they complain about the guy decked out in Kuiu.....
Its all about perspective I guess. I have buddies that drop a ton of money on golf.. To me, I just cannot fathom spending time and money to chase around a little white ball! I am sure they say the same of me and my hobbies

I don't want anyone to misunderstand me or my thoughts concerning this. I too have spent a lot of money on things for hunting and fishing. I've spent almost $800 since May on a Kifaru frame and two pack bags. I intend to spend $1000 in the next month improving a scope on a gun and, getting a used spotter. Just waiting on the cash out from an IRA to arrive in order to do so. So, I'm not immune and I'm not judging anyone or, their choices. I just realized that my choices for employment were lacking.



It appears to e you understand my thoughts. But, let me use the following example of what I can't comprehend, for those that might not have understood my post. I don't want to get hosed for being an old sour puss. Nick Munche, who posted in this thread, is from what I can tell, one of the deadliest hunters on the face of the earth. He lives in a place that offers him lots of opportunity. And, he capitalizes on it. I'm sure he is like everyone in that he has to live within his budget. But, I've seen were he has hunted in -40 weather and hunted rams in nice weather. I'm sure his gear list is long and expensive due to his exploits. But, there are guys here that do one 10 day backpack hunt that out spend him with no where near the results. I don't now what Nick uses. I don't know his financial status. What I do know is if you give him a rock as his weapon and, a bed sheet for his clothes, he's likely going to kill something. It isn't the gear that makes him that way. It's his drive and built in instincts that does.

In closing, I'm saying all the best gear in the world won't make you a good hunter, a successful hunter, or a better hunter. And, that 2 pounds you saved by spending $4000 won't kill that elk quicker, deadlier, or better. It won't account for an extra trip on the pack out. Or, save your body to hunt extra days. God Bless men

 

[HuntHarder]

I get your point, but I also can not stand the guys that have to preach about how you do not need all the new advancements. It is their/ my money and if I want to buy a new piece of equipment, why would that bother you? Do I think buying a new bow every year is not needed? Yes, but if that is what a guy likes to do, let him do it. Lots of hunters have only hunting as a "vice". They do not waste their money on cigs and beer, so why not treat yourself to a new piece of equipment when the opportunity presents itself.

Just think about the advancements you use, where do you draw the line? No rangefinder, wooden arrows, stick bow, open sights on a lever action 30-30? Point being that everyone's line is drawn at a different point in the sand on what they need/want to go hunting or fishing.

 

[Btaylor]

Just ragging on you. I am one of the few young ones on this paleolithic version of social media, so I have to be a little insulted and stick up for my generation.

Here's how I see it: I don't think tech has changed me as a whitetail hunter, even though I am younger, because I've been in the woods just tagging along since 4 years old and my dad and grandpap taught me everything I know. Grew up immersed in it. I just know how to hunt and read the woods. It's instinctual to put it simply.

On the flip side, and this is a positive thing for the sport by the way, tech can really shorten the learning curve. I am sorry to say this, the curmudgeons don't like to hear this, but it is true....if a guy is studious and lives with some early mistakes, using the internet as a resource and modern gear he or she can become a stone cold killer in no time. Sorry those guys are now running around your elk grounds.

However, I am not sure that I would have elk hunted in your state either, without the internet as a resource, at least not without an outfitter a time or two. Just the resource that it provides is incredibly powerful. Maps, videos, articles, message boards, I spend hours and hours researching elk hunting. And again, sorry this is crowding your hunting grounds, but it's just a fact that has to be accepted. Our ancestors wiped out elk from most of our region, so as long as we can't fully repopulate the East, there is going to be high demand for elk hunts.

Finally, I think, no I know, the success rate statistics you cite are flawed. First, no one trusts the states' data collecting as valid. Crap in, crap out...junk data makes junk stats. Second, you would really need to look at more detailed data analysis than just a broad success rate to really see that I think hunting has become easier in some ways.

I can agree with most of your post but one thing has not changed since I started deer hunting 41 years ago this season and that is to be good at killing stuff requires killing stuff. Any jack leg can gear up and go to the woods and if they use the resources available, they may have plenty of opportunities but killing is a skill only learned by and only perfected by killing. The interweb will never be responsible for the guy who is a stone cold killer, he first has it and second developed it by killing. Some guys have it and some don't. That is why the stats are the way they are and will be until they let folks hunt with drones. Hope I am dead and gone before that ever happens.

 

[Where's Bruce?]

Some "finer things" are actually necessary. My Kifaru packs cost some serious coin, as does my GPS and Onyx maps but these days hunting right along borders of private/public land demand you know exactly where you are. So spending money to better your odds and make your treks more comfortable is actually kinda normal. Do you absolutely NEED $400 boots and $1K camos? No...but if affording it isn't a concern then who cares. You'll look stylish in your pics. LOL

It really doesn't matter if you spend your money on property leases, landowner tags, outfitters, gear, or anything else. It is no different than the guy who takes time off work to hunt and spend more time afield than most...that's costing him too. If you're not working you're not making money. Nothing is free. I don't think the "new generation" of hunters is trying to change anything...things are still the same. There will always be a low, middle and high end to every product category...that's capitalism for ya. The chase remains the same...don't get busted by the eyes, ears or nose of your quarry. If you do, it doesn't matter what gear you bought.

 

[KurtR]

I learned real quick sitting in a ditch for 12 hours at negative temps to shoot a goose good clothes make life alot better. When I upgraded from walls bibs to game hide coat and bibs which were wind and water proof made my life alot better. I suffered enough as a kid and have worked so I don't have to feel frost bite again.

 

[dotman]

I am not as old as Brad but, I've been around hunting and doing it for 35 years. Times are different.



I never hunted Colorado before 2006. But, I have hunted here and else where long before that. The older Ive gotten, the less time and money I have had to do the things I love. So, I am glad there is an excess of aides to help now.



However, I think Brad is referring to something different. Look at the classifieds here. Daily, someone is selling he latest and greatest tech clothes. The ones that make you hunt harder and stay longer. Look in the clothing section. Guys talk about dropping $2000 on an outfit to see if they like it. After saying they dropped $2000 last year on an outfit. It cracks me up. I read a thread the other day where a guy was asking which sitka jacket he needed for his back packing trip. He said he had used a different one last year but, wanted to know if this one was better. What he named he had bought but, was unsatisfied with cost $1400. He was fixing on dropping another $500 on what some else was telling him was a better fit for his situation. That blows my mind. I can get on Ebay and order a polyester spandex baselayer shirt for $8 TMD. Cold gear substitute compression shirt for $11 TMD. In other words, i have the same stuff the brand chasers have, except I bought it all for what they paid for a light jacket and ants set. To only sell because they were unsatisfied. It blows my mind.




I guess I too wonder about what it is like to spend $3000 a year on hunting clothes, to buy a $3000 spotter, to have a $400 tripod, $2500 bino's $1500 of bow and accessory's. $800 pack. $450 boots. $800 sleeping bag. etc.. I have made a lot of money at certain times in my life but, I could never afford to do that on top of hunt costs. I just wander how other people can and, how they justify it with their spouses and kids. I understand some of us has acquired nice stuff over time. But, that doesn't fit everyone or even most that seem to post here. This is happening everyday. Heck, I was reading a bike thread a wee ago and guys were talking about buying a $2500 bike like it was a flashlight. Blows my mind and makes me realize I must have really missed the boat. God Bless

How can anyone judge what people's financial situations are on a forum?

 

[jack88]

You want to find a group of people to string up in the hunting community?

People who shoot an animal and then have to take pictures with a sponsored product in front of the animal, which to me makes it look like the animal has to take a back seat to the "miracle product."

 

[Bubblehide]

I didnt mean to sound like bitching and moaning, but man its heartbreaking to see all the money spent on stuff that are in hopes to get the inside track.

Elkyinzer said time and disposable income arent as abundant as they once were.
Im not so sure about that reading posts on some forums
But hey, if someone has the time and money, knock yourself out
My point is it just isnt needed to be successful - helpful maybe, but not needed - and the stuff certainly isnt new
Its been hashed and hashed

As far as stepping up to the plate and passing along some knowledge, each year I invite a 'newbie' to join my elk camp.
This year there will be 3 guys joining me that I have never met.
Im sure we will have a grand time chasing elk

I believe I have assisted 15 people take their first elk, so I guess I cant accused of not passing along my knowledge

Dotman mentioned a forum I started a few years ago and asked about the difference
It was founded on some friends helping friends, mostly posting some pics and hunting stories.
Just a small community that has linked up some great friends..

The biggest difference was [unlike most forums] there was no monetary gain for anyone involved
When you add $$$ to the equation, that is a BIG difference

BTW
I have never listened to a podcast in its entirety.
Tried one once, got bored

Fair enough.

Considering your response along with a few others, I now get where your coming from.

As hunters, like most things we take on, I think we go through a progression. I started fairly young, had a few friends I'd hunt with, but mostly hunted by my self. I did not have any family that hunted. I was never encouraged by my family, but then I wasn't discouraged either. By the way, I'm now 55. Simply put, hunting was just in my blood. I loved and continue to do so, different aspects of hunting. The challenge, the adventure of going places I haven't been, even if it's just over the next hill, which soon grew into the next and next and next... My list could go on and on. In short, I started reading everything I could get my hands on, hunting related. And you bet, I got sucked in, and bought what was new gear at the time. Hell I'm still upgrading, I'm just a whole lot wiser about it now. What I eventually learned from all the reading I did was that the vast majority of what was available at the time was nothing but entertainment, and little to no value otherwise. I eventually turned to reading research, which at first was difficult due to the fry nature of it.

But somewhere during all this time, I've evolved as a hunter. I went from me having to kill an animal no mater what it physically took, to being more selective about the animals I harvested. This likely happened because I became, well, proficient, as a hunter. Over the years I've continued to learn, put pieces together... I've also taken a few guys under my wing so to speak. I guess as I've aged, and those hunting has declined, while the population grows (at least here in Ca), passing on what skills, knowledge, and ability has grown in importance, to me. I've also grown to value helping a newby get his first animal, second... before filling my own tag. Don't get me wrong, I still enjoy filling the freezer. But I've also evolved to meat hunts, and hunts specifically for mature animals, with a tendency for the latter at the expense of possibly not filling a tag.

In short, I think those that are in the gear buying mode, are also in that stage of grasping at anything and everything that might give them that edge. Kinda like I was with reading everything I could get my hands on. I think some of us have in some ways gotten tot he point that, not only do we know what it takes, what will help us and what won't, but we've gone through the evolution as hunters, and pretty much been there done that, or pretty much seen it all, so to speak. In short, some you old curmudgeons (am I in that group, lol) just don't need much more than a rifle, food and a loin cloth to get the job done.

I know I simply can not go as far as I could when I was younger, but I also do need to, in the areas I normally hunt. I have simply learned to know where the animals will generally be, given the ecosystem conditions, weather conditions... I no longer hunt as hard, I simply hunt much much smarter. In the end, this younger being spoken of, is looking for any advantage they can muster, until they gain those skills, knowledge, and abilities to be proficient or better. Like me when I was young, hunting is in their blood, it's a part of them, and success is sweet, sweet enough to open their pocket books. But like many here, some realize they might be better off taking some unpaid time off to get more field time under their belts, rather than opening up their pocket books.

 

[Bubblehide]

Some "finer things" are actually necessary. ...

Yep, and I learned a little about those "finer things" and how beneficial some can be from this used to be newby. And to think, you thought you were the only guy learning from our relationship as huntin buddies.