The morality of poaching

[Wvroach]

The biases run deep

I know my bias and view point. I lived that life and I know the decision my family made, and I sleep fine at night. This entire thread has turned into bickering about something that no one here is trying to support.

Horn hunting and going around with BillyBob and BoRay shooting 30 deer in a month for the hell of it was never at the heart of what I was trying to get people to consider. I don't support that neither does anyone else and I'd say prosecute them to the fullest.

If we are all going to agree to follow the "law" to the tee everytime what do you do when that same law puts a chokehold on your way to eat or live? Moral law and Government legislation are separate from one another. I think the blanket statement and assumption and tarnishing of someones reputation over "poaching" may be undue when some of those people are doing what they have been doing generationally to survive.

It is easy for folks to sit up on their pedestal and look down on those and throw out the, just move, they shouldn't be there to begin with comments etc... The blood ties in these mountains run deep, you're asking people to leave homes that were built 5+ generations ago a decision like that doesn't come easy. It is the same argument as the Inuit people or other nomadic cultures are they just all supposed to move? Who is taking them in? What jobs do you have lined up for all these folks? Where is the food truck coming from 50 miles back in the sticks to every nook in the mountain where a homestead is to feed them?

Most of these folks don't have any money and a lot of the ones that have a few dollars have it from skills that are not necessarily able to be used in other areas.

We can agree or disagree it doesn't matter but sometimes we need to take a step back and consider the entire situation.

This is certainly more of a cultural/regional thing as this conversation has shown, and that is great I'm glad that folks don't have to make this decision for themselves and I pray they never have to.

 

[CoStick]

I know my bias and view point. I lived that life and I know the decision my family made, and I sleep fine at night. This entire thread has turned into bickering about something that no one here is trying to support.

Horn hunting and going around with BillyBob and BoRay shooting 30 deer in a month for the hell of it was never at the heart of what I was trying to get people to consider. I don't support that neither does anyone else and I'd say prosecute them to the fullest.

If we are all going to agree to follow the "law" to the tee everytime what do you do when that same law puts a chokehold on your way to eat or live? Moral law and Government legislation are separate from one another. I think the blanket statement and assumption and tarnishing of someones reputation over "poaching" may be undue when some of those people are doing what they have been doing generationally to survive.

It is easy for folks to sit up on their pedestal and look down on those and throw out the, just move, they shouldn't be there to begin with comments etc... The blood ties in these mountains run deep, you're asking people to leave homes that were built 5+ generations ago a decision like that doesn't come easy. It is the same argument as the Inuit people or other nomadic cultures are they just all supposed to move? Who is taking them in? What jobs do you have lined up for all these folks? Where is the food truck coming from 50 miles back in the sticks to every nook in the mountain where a homestead is to feed them?

Most of these folks don't have any money and a lot of the ones that have a few dollars have it from skills that are not necessarily able to be used in other areas.

We can agree or disagree it doesn't matter but sometimes we need to take a step back and consider the entire situation.

This is certainly more of a cultural/regional thing as this conversation has shown, and that is great I'm glad that folks don't have to make this decision for themselves and I pray they never have to.

Same rational for looting.

 

[wyosteve]

The slope becomes very slippery when one individual can decide their personal circumstances justify disregarding a law!

 

[Wvroach]

Same rational for looting.

Not even remotely similar.

 

[wildwilderness]

Alaska has solved the issue with very liberal subsistence laws for harvesting game for those who qualify, and has even provided an emergency clause in the regulations for anyone to kill to eat in an “emergency”

 

[Lvthntitall]

Do you think a person that is honestly poaching to feed his family cares if his name is on a list.
Poaching of any kind is illegal and comes with consequences. People have to decide if the risk is worth the reward.

 

[Pacific_Fork]

So what if those same humans, that you say have a right to eat, start shooting a bunch of mature bucks? Or they start decimating the doe population, leaving only bucks left? How do we decide who’s too hungry and who’s not hungry enough?

Ain’t no poor starving people living on the AZ strip talking 240” mule deer to feed themselves, so stop with the hypothetical BS and stick to topic. We are talking about very rare instances in this country.

 

[orionsbrother]

Victor Hugo wrote something a while back that addresses this. If you’re Jean Valjean, I think you have some leeway.

The people that I’ve encountered who find themselves in extremely dire circumstances have, almost all, made a long series of repeated poor choices that have had negative results though.

I follow the game laws. Even the Byzantine ones that I believe are nonsensical. I’ve walked back to my buddy’s place when offered a ride because it would’ve been illegal to place my uncased bow in the pick up.

But... if I made some stupid decisions out in Montana, broke an ankle because of some stupid choice I made, had no cell phone because I broke it, had no PLB or Inreach and no one knew where I was because I didn’t share that with anyone, whatever hypothetical self created disaster scenario you want to create... if I’m starving... I’m going to be a hypocrite and eat that bull trout.

 

[CoStick]

Not even remotely similar.

What is the difference? No deer in the city so they go after different bounty.

 

[Wvroach]

What is the difference? No deer in the city so they go after different bounty.

I have explained previously, let those who have ears to hear, hear. No point wasting more time on something I previously explained.

 

[CoStick]

I have explained previously, let those who have ears to hear, hear. No point wasting more time on something I previously explained.

Well if you didn’t feel it was wrong you would have never had to ask….

 

[KoolBreeze]

Couple threads on poaching currently on here. While I'm against it 9.5 times out of 10 I have to ask do you all ever feel as though it is appropriate?

My personal opinion and I am sure it is skewed. I was in a position at one point in time where my family didn't have the money to eat if it wasn't for taking a few deer for sustenance and catching food from the river we wouldn't have eaten for those weeks.

I grew up in rural Appalachia in the poorest state in the US. My dad always worked until he ended up incarcerated for defending his family which he was eventually acquitted of, around 50k later in legal fees and job loss that left my family dead broke at the time. We lived with no running water or electricity In a 1 room cabin for a few years until they had saved enough money to move south and buy another home. Not a sob story doing quite well now and I'm 100% positive this experience changed my outlook of finances and life in general.

I feel like certain times it may be appropriate. I am not talking about the guys traveling out of state or going for trophy animals. The folks close to home tight up though I don't see a problem with taking what you need from the land to survive and provide for your family.

I have to wonder in the blanket list of names posted of violators if any of those folks were in a similar situation as we were and maybe we shouldn't automatically assume they were just out to get a set of antlers to throw on the wall.

I can only speak for myself as a landowner but if someone in the position such as you describe came to me and asked for permission to hunt on my land, they would have it without question. In fact, I'd help them fill their freezer if they'd accept it. That said, I would expect them to ask first.

 

[Wvroach]

Well if you didn’t feel it was wrong you would have never had to ask….

As stated previously, this isn't about my story, I'm not hard up, not a poacher and very financially secure and fiscally responsible. No sob story here nor am I seeking any personal accolades.

Something about those in glass houses not throwing stones. Automatically judging people who end up on a poaching list and painting them all with the same brush doesn't set right with my mentality I reckon. I've lived that life, been there done that as the adage goes. We can all have our opinions, you know where I stand and I know where you stand. No issues, no point in bickering about it on either side. If it was a sincere question that would be different.

 

[Billy Goat]

Thinking about this today. I met a boy who was 18 or 19 years old, lived on the edge of a pretty wealthy county in VA and went to public school. Two weeks prior was the first time he had been on an interstate, only lived 11 miles by road to an entrance ramp. Didn't have running water in his home.


This was 6 years ago. No idea what he is doing now, I met him on a job. He had just graduated high school a month or so prior and was working for an excavating company now.


But of course now homesteading is becoming popular, maybe this will be more frequent.

 

[fmyth]

I have a friend that lives in a very poor remote area of WV. He tells me his yearly hunting and fishing license is $19 and antlerless deer tags are $10 each. Last year he was eligible for a total of 11 deer tags. WV resident landowners can take the same number of deer without purchasing a license/tag. I don't think I could eat 11 deer a year even if the tags were free.

 

[sneaky]

Let the power grid go down for a couple of weeks and then see what people will be willing to do to survive. Be a lot of glass houses getting cracked.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[mtwarden]

Can't speak to other states, but in Montana the folks pinched for feeding their family is almost nil. This is based on twenty four years of enforcing wildlife laws.

For one, if an individual or family is down on their luck, there are a myriad of programs (both private and public) to help folks out. Two, you can do pretty well on putting meat in the freezer legally with a little work (lots of extra doe tags, extended seasons, etc).

I did have one rather memorable case of an individual that actually was tipping over deer to feed his family. I told him I'd make him a deal, he'd quit poaching and I would give him game that we would confiscate throughout the season (all of our confiscated game meat was donated with a receipt to the individual receiving it). I lived up to my end of the bargain and I never had a problem with gentleman again (he did eventually moved out of state).

 

[Crowmangler]

That’s the problem with theory: People who are to poor to feed their family, should be able to shoot wildlife as they chose, to get by. How are game and fish offices supposed to regulate that? And where do we make the cut off for the too “poor”? Or the family that “needs“ help? Or the ones that shoot just “enough” to get by? Or the ones that are only taking the “over abundant” ?

THIS..... We all probably know people who are "poor" because of making numerous "poor" decisions. Such as spending yourself into oblivion (too much house, boat, lotto tix, alcohol, cigarettes, drugs, etc.) and then saying "I don't have any money for groceries so it's OK for me to poach"... yeah uhm ...NO

 

[long hunter]

That’s the problem with theory: People who are to poor to feed their family, should be able to shoot wildlife as they chose, to get by. How are game and fish offices supposed to regulate that? And where do we make the cut off for the too “poor”? Or the family that “needs“ help? Or the ones that shoot just “enough” to get by? Or the ones that are only taking the “over abundant” ?

I would bet most game wardens are pretty in touch with the folks who live in their work area and know who is scratching to put food on their table. I am a hunter of deer have given away more deer than most hunters have killed and do it legally. I am not a game warden, but I know who appreciates it and makes a difference in whether their kids have a decent meal.

 

[long hunter]

Same rational for looting.

Looting is for personal gain, most likely the looted goods are sold on e-bay, shooting a deer out of hunger is a totally different ball game, I don't see much deer meat being sold on e-bay.