Lawnboi
WKR
It’s also easily forgotten that there is a lot more to hunting than big bucks.
The future of NR hunting in Wyoming
- Thread starter Hunt the Top
- Start date
You can do better than this.
If it is a 1 and done hunt to check the mule deer box, get it done early and then do some trout fishing while you explore the area and look for petroglyphs and arrow heads. Fun stuff.
Sit down and really think WHY you want to go and what you hope to accomplish. Then go do it. Leave the $ part out of it for now. That’s just a litmus test regarding how bad you want to go.
Meat hunting is likewise not why you are going, so dont get trapped by that either. You can likely buy a 1/2 or whole beef cow for the same amount or less than your trip. Its cheaper and gives lots more meat. If that was your goal, youd buy the cow to spend your money the most effective way. So, That’s not why you are going.
Im not poking fun, just trying to help you. I been thru all these mental exercises. We do buy beef cows and i shoot one deer a year most years because of that. Going guided for antelope 2023 if all pans out - 90/10 freaked me out and im getting out.
Totally agree.
Some contrary points:
folks dont get excited over 2x2 bucks. They dont watch you tube videos hunting 2x2s nor will they spend thousands on gear planning to shoot dinks. They dont collect preference points, travel across the country and do once in a lifetime hunts for small 2x2 bucks.
F&G doesnt publicize the arrests of poachers who shoot dinks. Just the guys w multiple big bucks and $X0,000 fines.
Might sound like im against it but im not. If a 100# 2x2 mule deer floats your boat, shoot him. Be happy and appreciate the opportunity. You did it!
I didnt see anything else so i shot it doesnt sound very appreciative. Shooting a dink on day 6 of 9 leaves 3 days where things could have been diff and dreams realized if the hunter had pushed thru.
I think you nailed some solid points. I think you have to take into account the different phases of hunters.
Was there a time that you wanted to shoot the first legal animal? I bet there was, I know there was for me.
Honestly I’m much more for shooting a younger bull elk for meat, than a younger mule deer now, but it took me some time to get to the point where all I want to do is hunt mature bucks and I’m okay with eating a tag.
You want to look at who made shooting little bucks famous…. Look no further than old Steven R.
I completely agree with what you said, I made a post after this one that better fleshed out what I meant as the comment you responded to was more out of annoyance with the comment implying that anyone who shoots small buck is just looking for an ego boost. And as Hnthrdr pointed out, I don't have a ton of season's under my belt, but I do agree with what you're saying. I'm not planning on going out west to shoot a spike or a 2x2, if I am going out there with just the plan to get meat, I'm probably gonna get an anterless tag and save some money on it. My point was more saying it's one thing to sit here and say you wouldn't shoot a small buck, it's a whole other to get your first shooting opportunity on a 2x2 the last day of your hunt. Even if you know you should pass on it, it takes a lot of discipline not to pull that trigger.
dieselchessy
WKR
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- Apr 21, 2015
- Messages
- 985
Why should you pass on a 2x2?
I’ll admit I don’t get the trophy hunter gig, and I pretty well completely wrote off the other poster when he said he was going on a guided antelope hunt. To me when you go guided your no longer a hunter, just a shooter.
Yes, most hunters would shoot a big one if presented the opportunity, but being willing to “eat the tag” if not presented a “trophy animal” seems contrary to my hunting values. It’s turning hunting into a game, like those fowl hunters who shoot for collars and bands.
I’m more in line with DIY hunters who want to fill a tag with the best legal critter they think they can harvest. If that’s a 2x2, then good on them.
Well that’s a good question, you pass since you want to see a better age class/bigger (body size& antler size) animals on the landscape. I think you get to a point where you want to look for a specific age range (antlers can sometimes help you determine this) , and you don’t feel the need to kill something for the hunt to be successful. One of my favorite hunts I chased a the same buck for 3 days, saw him 4 times, never got a shot, sat for hours trying to get him in -5 degree weather. Passed on many young bucks. To think that hunting isn’t partly a game is naive, it is a game, it is a passion, it is a hobby, it is a way of life all rolled into one, which makes it so amazing. I don’t think chasing mature bucks and having a standard or goal is trophy hunting I would think Robby denning and most staff, would fall into your definition of “trophy hunter” then
I’m a die hard DIY guy myself, I waterfowl hunt too, and I try to only shoot drakes, mostly since I want to see more ducks on the landscape. Hunting is one of those things that hunters who self regulate can help make places better outside of fish and game and biologists. I for one would never complain about seeing more animals/ more mature animals on the landscape. A unit I am very familiar with the mule deer have been suffering from predation and other factors, I will be very selective on what I shoot and will never take a doe in that unit, I would rather see more mule deer there. If more people had that mindset we might see more animals around
Long winded but hopefully it made a little bit of sense, can be a hard thing to grasp ya know
Typical guy gets an idea (book, buddy, you tube video, etc.) and runs with it - big muley! 180-inch or nothing. He gets his preference points over the years, buys all kinds of stuff, gets in shape and goes. Gets there and it is culture shock - the mountains are huge and you can see for miles with your naked eye, critters everywhere, it is awesome.
Then after 3-4-5 days of seeing other hunters and not finding the buck, he starts to question himself, ultimately talks himself out of it. Now, all he wants to do is just go home - if you quit and show up early with nothing, wife is gonna question you. So you shoot a little one. That way you can leave early, save face, and go home a success instead of feeling like a failure cause you aimed too high. Then you talk about how there are too many hunters and no big bucks left so you shot this one to provide for the family. How many times does this play out? - I've read more than one story like this so far this year.
You can shoot a 2x2 if you have to. Just don't expect there to be as many bigger ones around that you fantasized about. They need to be 4-5 years old before the antlers start to get big and if they die at 18 months, they'll never satisfy the guy who wants to shoot a bigger buck. It's not as much shooting the buck, it is why they shot the buck - consolation prize for today, yet they just took the grand prize out of the woods for their next hunt in 2-3 years. It's baffling, but folks do it.
For me it's a 30+ hr drive and about $3,500 to do a DIY. Done 2 DIY hunts and happy w results, 2 antelope does (no buck tag) and a 160-inch 4x4 muley - not bad for a deaf guy. Looking forward to the guided antelope hunt tho, should be pretty relaxing compared to my first (combat) antelope hunt and a nice way to say good-bye to western hunting.
The NR changes that are ultimately coming will alter the landscape in ways we don't yet know. I do wish the best to folks who are staying in the western game.
Then after 3-4-5 days of seeing other hunters and not finding the buck, he starts to question himself, ultimately talks himself out of it. Now, all he wants to do is just go home - if you quit and show up early with nothing, wife is gonna question you. So you shoot a little one. That way you can leave early, save face, and go home a success instead of feeling like a failure cause you aimed too high. Then you talk about how there are too many hunters and no big bucks left so you shot this one to provide for the family. How many times does this play out? - I've read more than one story like this so far this year.
You can shoot a 2x2 if you have to. Just don't expect there to be as many bigger ones around that you fantasized about. They need to be 4-5 years old before the antlers start to get big and if they die at 18 months, they'll never satisfy the guy who wants to shoot a bigger buck. It's not as much shooting the buck, it is why they shot the buck - consolation prize for today, yet they just took the grand prize out of the woods for their next hunt in 2-3 years. It's baffling, but folks do it.
For me it's a 30+ hr drive and about $3,500 to do a DIY. Done 2 DIY hunts and happy w results, 2 antelope does (no buck tag) and a 160-inch 4x4 muley - not bad for a deaf guy. Looking forward to the guided antelope hunt tho, should be pretty relaxing compared to my first (combat) antelope hunt and a nice way to say good-bye to western hunting.
The NR changes that are ultimately coming will alter the landscape in ways we don't yet know. I do wish the best to folks who are staying in the western game.
dieselchessy
WKR
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- 985
I don’t fault a guy for wanting to chase horns, until that guy starts chastising others for “shooting dinks”.
I just don’t identify with them folks. Hunting isn’t a game, hobby, or sport to me. It’s what and who I am.
But I digress, back to the doom and gloom of price increases and the reduction of allocations.
I just don’t identify with them folks. Hunting isn’t a game, hobby, or sport to me. It’s what and who I am.
But I digress, back to the doom and gloom of price increases and the reduction of allocations.
They only way to stop this is residents push for a 4 point rule for nr hunters. Similiar to Alaska moose make a exception for nr youth.
william schmaltz
WKR
Not agreeing or disagreeing, but on AK forums they complain and argue that this is the reason there are no big moose. Just can't get a win.......
edit: and most of those units also have the same size restriction on residents.
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Shoot man, what % of total kills are coming from NRs? Wouldn't you want to restrict Res if you wanted more bucks to live longer?
Actually plenty of residents shoot young bucks for the meat, we do have folks that hunt for the meat not the antlers or horns.
I've run into great locals taking young busks due to short seasons and only seeing a young buck. They need and want meat but can only shoot what they see.
I don't like short seasons that only encompass one weekend, leads to young bucks getting taken imo.
SuperDUECE22
WKR
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- Aug 20, 2019
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- 1,101
I have eaten plenty of tags over the years because i didn't find a mature animal and i have no desire to shoot a young adolescent buck just to fill the tag. Does that make me a trophy hunter? I don't think so but others will disagree. As long as its legal i don't care what other people do with their tags but i am in the camp that a notched tag does not mean it's a successful hunt. I think a successful hunt is one filled with good times with family & friends and spending time in the outdoors.
Just like you are saying that going guided isn't actually hunting and more like shooting the same exact thing can be said for shooting a 2x2. HUNTING a mature animal is a hell of alot harder than SHOOTING a young dumb 2x2.
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Lawnboi
WKR
Hunting is about making meat first, the rest is secondary.
Not saying I don’t agree with some of the logic or that I don’t enjoy shooting a nice buck, but people forget what I typed above.
That’s most of the reason we are in the mess we are now.
Not saying I don’t agree with some of the logic or that I don’t enjoy shooting a nice buck, but people forget what I typed above.
That’s most of the reason we are in the mess we are now.
If that is true then guys should hunt their home state period. Elk antlers, vs muley, antlers vs prongs vs white tail antlers shouldn’t matter
It is about the excitement, the adventure, the adrenaline, the thrill, the challenge, ect… yes you get high quality wild meat, but it goes way beyond the meat, which is why hunting the west is dang popular, which brings us to western states having to restrict access to NR it is a finite resource.
That's the main thing i'm looking forward to this coming October - couple buddies around a campfire with a glass of expensive bourbon and a clear night to see the stars while we rehash those ragged and worn old stories while laughing til our sides hurt. It's a guided antelope hunt on private - not thinking it will be tough to shoot anything. Be nice to do it like on the movies tho - no other orange/hunters in sight. Probably be whatever we choose kind of hunting - sit on a hay bale, crawl across the prairie, shoot longer range, whatever we want is probably what will happen. Gimme a hay bale.
I want to check the bucket list for a buck antelope but am looking forward to seeing those gray-headed guys more. At my age, folks are starting to drop dead a bit more regularly than they used to at younger ages. We lost 3 in 2022 - two were fishing partners. The circle keeps getting smaller.
I pushed a couple of your buttons. Gonna try an olive branch.
Been hunting deer, etc. for the last 45 seasons - only 2 states/years out west but 8 diff eastern states for whitetails. Birds and small game for about 48 seasons - started a hunter's rights/access type duck hunting organization in 1999 that's still active, volunteer at a wildlife refuge to ensure hunters get access and a say in the rules & regulations, and also designed several duck hunting boats - helped folks build em for 8 or so years til those rotomolded SOT kayaks became popular and just seemed better. I still get emails wanting the boat plans... But overall just a guy a lifelong hunter can't identify with cause he says that folks travel across the country to shoot big bucks, not dinks.
My main comment is that folks shouldn't bitch that there are no big ones when/if they shoot and promote shooting the little ones. I also said that folks don't travel across the country to shoot little deer and provide some mental concepts as to why they do shoot em so they can go home early. Read the hunt tales and see how many guys do this.
I wanted to shoot a 4x4 muley buck in 1978. Read a book. Went in 2019, 41 years later.
People don't travel across the country to hunt "to make meat". Cheaper to hunt locally to fill the freezer.
The mess comes from a litany of stuff:
-less hunting access everywhere
-less hunting opportunity
-hunters are everywhere on public land
-costs as much to go out west as it does to join or purchase a lease
-ease of travel these days
-folks introducing new hunters to hunting out west - Newberg used to do traveling shows to promote western hunting, still might i dunno - don't follow him
-every guy who goes out goes back with 3 or 4 other new guys
-everyone who spends money and time feels the need to bring home a dead animal or at least meat
-the F&G agencies don't manage the game, they manage hunters and politics (example is that there should be no antelope doe harvest in many areas of WY but there are)
I do feel for the resident hunters - they never asked for this but they sure are getting it. That's why things will change and the NR is gonna get phased out to an extent. the point system is the sticky part - lotsa folks with lotsa points who will go bonkers if they get into the weird statistical drawings where every year everyone has the same chance, theoretically. How soon? How bad? We'll find out in the not too distant future.
Yay!
Lawnboi
WKR
@Hnthrdr and @Rich M
Totally agree with your points as well and it is all another reason that I enjoy hunting, wherever it may be. But all said and done I enjoy the quality meat that comes with it, and part of the spiritual feeling I get hunting comes from it not being a sport but a past time of the human race. Obviously we have made it into much more. Just the way I see it.
Fwiw Iv traveled a long ways for a doe…. I get a lot of what’s mentioned above on a doe hunt as well.
As always there will be plenty of quality hunting for years to come for those who have the cash for it. Already is that way. Sad that people like myself pay the price for that but I have fun shooting coyotes and prairie dogs on years I don’t get a tag.
Totally agree with your points as well and it is all another reason that I enjoy hunting, wherever it may be. But all said and done I enjoy the quality meat that comes with it, and part of the spiritual feeling I get hunting comes from it not being a sport but a past time of the human race. Obviously we have made it into much more. Just the way I see it.
Fwiw Iv traveled a long ways for a doe…. I get a lot of what’s mentioned above on a doe hunt as well.
As always there will be plenty of quality hunting for years to come for those who have the cash for it. Already is that way. Sad that people like myself pay the price for that but I have fun shooting coyotes and prairie dogs on years I don’t get a tag.
For sure man, I think that’s what attracts so many people. People now days live in such a sanitized version of life that when they plug themselves into the food chain they feel alive for once and there are few places I feel more at peace or alive than the Rocky Mountains that I was lucky enough to be born in
dieselchessy
WKR
- Joined
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- 985
We probably have more in common than not. I built a wood duck boat called a Pintail from plans in an old magazine I don’t recall at this moment. Passed it down to my son. We most often use the plastic boats though.
We just have different opinions on hunting and maybe the cause of the decline in our game herds.
It would be boring to have discussions with only folks with whom we agreed on everything.
No olive branch needed and no need to lay out your hunting history to support your opinion.
I can respect a persons opinion even though I don’t share it.
Very nice boat - I think I have a copy of that magazine article you mention. - let me know if you want an electronic copy.
Merry Christmas to you!
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