“The 22 Creedmoor Project”

[Harvey_NW]

Multiple record holding BR shooters say there’s a charge node that induces less vertical dispersion. I believe them, but I can’t reliably prove it with my systems.

Pretty much every time I see them say that with their posted results, I run the numbers and average all the groups and then apply the statistical variability based on sample size, and all of the group sizes fall within the expected variability. It cracks me up.

 

[BBob]

Multiple record holding BR shooters say there’s a charge node that induces less vertical dispersion. I believe them, but I can’t reliably prove it with my systems.

Might the difference be the cartridges they have tested and chosen (which is what you allude to)? I suspect so. The BR, BRA, and the WSM cartridges specifically. Very few cartridges seem make the grade at 1K. It seems a little bit more open at 600.

 

[huntnful]

Pretty much every time I see them say that with their posted results, I run the numbers and average all the groups and then apply the statistical variability based on sample size, and all of the group sizes fall within the expected variability. It cracks me up.

Yeah they could be all in their own head for sure. But I’m nowhere near that level of precision to tell them they’re ****** up lol.

But yes, I see a lot of the dispersion testing I only done 1 time. I’d love to see the charge ladder repeated several times where it was completely obvious that there was a node with less vertical dispersion. And the same charges held horizontal lines and the same charges jumped up out of that line repeatedly.

 

[huntnful]

Might the difference be the cartridges they have tested and chosen (which is what you allude to)? I suspect so. The BR, BRA, and the WSM cartridges specifically. Very few cartridges seem make the grade at 1K. It seems a little bit more open at 600.

Could definitely be the case. I just follow them and try to apply some things they do that make sense for me and what I want to/can achieve out of my rifles.

 

[BBob]

and all of the group sizes fall within the expected variability. It cracks me up.

Have you run your analysis on several of the guys that seem to at times defy that? Greg Kulzer and some of his season winning aggs? The guy has shot incredibly well and consistently small at times. He’s not been the only one to pull off some incredible aggs over time.

 

[HuntHarder]

Yeah they could be all in their own head for sure. But I’m nowhere near that level of precision to tell them they’re ****** up lol.

But yes, I see a lot of the dispersion testing I only done 1 time. I’d love to see the charge ladder repeated several times where it was completely obvious that there was a node with less vertical dispersion. And the same charges held horizontal lines and the same charges jumped up out of that line repeatedly.

I did identical ladder tests @ 400 on 2 seperate guns and could not make out any real consistent charge weight. As previously mentioned tho, I chalked it up more to my shooting ability vs. Actual nodes.

 

[Harvey_NW]

Have you run your analysis on several of the guys that seem to at times defy that? Greg Kulzer and some of his season winning aggs? The guy has shot incredibly well and consistently small at times. He’s not been the only one to pull off some incredible aggs over time.

I'm not saying they're not amazing shooters, I'm just saying in most cases they don't defy the statistics that ballisticians have provided with millions of live fire rounds. Agg scores mean the rifle shot groups smaller and bigger than the aggregate. Exactly like the statistics of small sample size say they will.

 

[chamois]

I don’t know anything about reloading, but why do you think there’s a larger increase in velocity from 43gr to 44gr than the rest of the increments?


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I don't know with how many shots were the different velocities determined, in other words, how consistent or realistic they could be, but that lack of regularity in the velocity increase per grain that you mention could well be within the statistical variability of each load.
By the way, this is a very enjoyable thread, Huntful, thank you and all those that contribute to it.