The 1 Thing You Learned- Suppressors

[HandgunHTR]

If I had an oil filter company I'd have already done that! It's just the up-front cost of a factory that's stopping me!

Someone out there has the tooling already in place to sell these for "dirt"... so there IS some reason (barrier to entry) why they haven't................. yet.

There is a hell of a lot of difference between an oil filter and a suppressor. Your comparison is a strawman.

Another item you are forgetting is that CNC machining equipment and precision welding equipment is expensive. As is the research and design. Most suppressor manufacturers are not making thousands of these per year either. They are making hundreds. Therefore, they have to charge more to cover their costs.

If they ever become deregulated and they can churn out thousands of these as they will sell readily, prices will drop quite a bit. Until then, they will continue to be in the $600-1000 range.

Finally, I will say this. It is always easy to figure out the folks who have never shot suppressed. Once you do, it is really hard to go back.

 

[Zappaman]

There is a hell of a lot of difference between an oil filter and a suppressor. Your comparison is a strawman.

Another item you are forgetting is that CNC machining equipment and precision welding equipment is expensive. As is the research and design. Most suppressor manufacturers are not making thousands of these per year either. They are making hundreds. Therefore, they have to charge more to cover their costs.

If they ever become deregulated and they can churn out thousands of these as they will sell readily, prices will drop quite a bit. Until then, they will continue to be in the $600-1000 range.

Uh… I didn’t “forget” what a factory and machines cost, and I know (and explained) WHY the cost is high… while I also made the MAIN point you agreed to above, “…prices WILL drop quite a bit” if someone decided to “churn out thousands”. This WAS the point I was making- we agree.

I’ve shot a few, it was fun. I’ve also once drove a Ferrari… that was also fun.

It’s certainly your money to spend as it’s worth it to you. It’s not to me at the price today. Glad you like yours… my buddy loves his too.

 

[justin davis]

One thing I learned is don’t go thru SilencerShop. It’s been nothing but a headache for me. Been waiting to certify for 2 months and there is an issue. But SilencerShop doesn’t see an issue and the dealer doesn’t seem to care to help me. So I’m just sitting there in limbo for the past 2 months.

 

[Sccritterkiller]

Put your can on a scale as soon as you get out of the box or after a good cleaning..write that number down...when it gets a couple ounces heavier you will know its time to clean it.

 

[PRC_GUY]

One thing hate and learn from Suppressor is it is painful to wait for 10 months for the application, it is sucks .

 

[Sccritterkiller]

The lightest suppressor you can makes a lot of sense. I wonder if that would change your point of impact less as well?

I found the biggest POI shift is on my free floated rifles. The longer the barrel, if it's free floated, the bigger the shift. My FC is 18" with the barrel bedded the entire length of the foreend...very little POI shift at 100yds, maybe 1/4". AR with the thin 16" free floating barrel close 6" of POI shift at 100yds...I have a Rugged Radiant it's 12oz so I can't get that much lighter can.

 

[Brandon.miller.4]

I second what many others have said. In hunting scenario I too value length and weight over noise reduction. Started with a 7, now waiting on a 5 inch for my 300wsm.

 

[HuntInWild88]

I'm an old miser... So let me piss off a few here with my diatribe... and this is based on the COST of stuff Vs. the "market" for "STUFF"... so please understand- I KNOW what metal cost (and what oil filters cost to make).

First let me say I appreciate a GOOD knife and a GOOD one (made in bulk) cost what is costs- not a lot. I can get an excellent knife for $40 today-- not custom. A CUSTOM knife ALSO costs what is costs... I get craftsmanship. I adore my custom knives and other items HAND made by an artist (and I've paid for several).

Maybe I just don't understand the "intricacies" involved in the making of a silencer... I admit it! To me it's a piece of metal machined to do what it does. BUT TO THIS DAY... I cannot understand WHY these things cost what they do!

No need to explain it to me guys... you're just not going to be able to convince me. I'm sure there are MANY reasons to justify the cost. But in my mind, it's NOT something that should cost more than about $100 based on other manufactured items of similar construction.

If China could export these, I KNOW they would cost next to nothing. Look at the amazing LED lights they sell for $30. Machined to perfection (from aluminum, not steel) with excellent electronics, polished aluminum reflectors, and milled from single stock. Maybe steel work cost more... but (again) in my mind- not more than 3 times as much.

Like everything else in our world today... reloading prices are THREE times what they were a few years ago- but I KNOW the COST to make them aren't up 300%. Yes, materials have gone up SOME as has labor... BUT not 300%.

Silencers just cost WAY more than I'll ever spend for what they are. When the market adjusts to what I feel it should be... I'll go buy 5 of them. But until then... they make no financial sense to me for what they give me.

My "two cents"... (and that explains my reasoning here to a tee).

1 foot of 1.5" titanium $340. 1 foot of 1.5" 7075 aluminum $50.
This is why 22lr suppressors are a fraction of the cost of center fire suppressors. This is also why you can "solvent trap" kits off of wish for 22lr for $10. Tooling is expensive. Machining aluminum doesn't wear tooling. Machining titanium and heat treated steels wears tooling fast!
I agree pricing seems high. Even doing a the form 1 route it still cost me about $600 to build mine. That doesn't include my time. Obviously companies can't sell them at cost either

 

[chutinlead]

Now I wish I hadn't got the barrels so long on my by 6.5 Creedmoor and 300 Win Mag

It's real easy to make them shorter lol.

 

[HuntInWild88]

This should be marked NSFW. That thing is sexy.

Barrel cut to 20" and a 7.5" reflexes 3" other mock up.
Not sure if I'm going to use the brake end cap or not.

 

[Zappaman]

1 foot of 1.5" titanium $340. 1 foot of 1.5" 7075 aluminum $50.
This is why 22lr suppressors are a fraction of the cost of center fire suppressors. This is also why you can "solvent trap" kits off of wish for 22lr for $10. Tooling is expensive. Machining aluminum doesn't wear tooling. Machining titanium and heat treated steels wears tooling fast!
I agree pricing seems high. Even doing a the form 1 route it still cost me about $600 to build mine. That doesn't include my time. Obviously companies can't sell them at cost either

I do not disagree with you (or anyone here) at all on the CURRENT cost of making ONE (in your case), or a few (in the case of shops making them today). And I've said I won't spend it myself AT this cost (price) today. I am WELL aware or the cost here guys (and had a good chat with a machinist who offered to make me one a few years back whiole he was making one for a good buddy).

I am ALSO saying they can be made cheaper if they were made in bulk by someone already in the "biz" of manufacturing similar "commodity" priced products (oil filter example). For a 22lr, I'd predict a "throw away" can to come along before too long (like the "solvent trap" adapters you mention- I've seen 9mm use those in vids back 10 years ago... ugly, but works (kinda)).

I feel there is a restriction (or two) keeping cheaper versions from coming out... or maybe just the "risk" factor (insurance cost) of an "over-the-counter" product (such as I am suggesting) that keeps larger makers from entering this market.

I'm NOT against them, I just don't need one myself for the price (and PITA stamp) today. Until that day where pricing (may) come down by "scaling production" (what I am talking about here), if you got a shop and orders... sell em' boys!

 

[HandgunHTR]

One thing I learned is don’t go thru SilencerShop. It’s been nothing but a headache for me. Been waiting to certify for 2 months and there is an issue. But SilencerShop doesn’t see an issue and the dealer doesn’t seem to care to help me. So I’m just sitting there in limbo for the past 2 months.

That is a dealer issue, not a SilencerShop issue. The biggest problem is that if too many people are logged onto the sharing portal (which was a SS developed platform, BTW) it locks up.
From what I have seen most dealers are trying to do it first thing in the morning or during and right after lunch. Unfortunately, that is when everyone else is trying to do it too.
My dealer and I tried for 20 minutes the first time around. Then she said, hey, let me call you back around 6pm, if that is ok with you. I said sure and I was certified and in the system by 6:10.
You need to tell your dealer to stop being lazy and get it done.
Either that or just go there and do it in person so you don’t have to screenshare.

 

[hflier]

No quick detach. I moved to direct thread after I thought it was properly attached and I found it 50 yards down range lol. Luckily only minor damage.

 

[Flatgo]

I'm an old miser... So let me piss off a few here with my diatribe... and this is based on the COST of stuff Vs. the "market" for "STUFF"... so please understand- I KNOW what metal cost (and what oil filters cost to make).

First let me say I appreciate a GOOD knife and a GOOD one (made in bulk) cost what is costs- not a lot. I can get an excellent knife for $40 today-- not custom. A CUSTOM knife ALSO costs what is costs... I get craftsmanship. I adore my custom knives and other items HAND made by an artist (and I've paid for several).

Maybe I just don't understand the "intricacies" involved in the making of a silencer... I admit it! To me it's a piece of metal machined to do what it does. BUT TO THIS DAY... I cannot understand WHY these things cost what they do!

No need to explain it to me guys... you're just not going to be able to convince me. I'm sure there are MANY reasons to justify the cost. But in my mind, it's NOT something that should cost more than about $100 based on other manufactured items of similar construction.

If China could export these, I KNOW they would cost next to nothing. Look at the amazing LED lights they sell for $30. Machined to perfection (from aluminum, not steel) with excellent electronics, polished aluminum reflectors, and milled from single stock. Maybe steel work cost more... but (again) in my mind- not more than 3 times as much.

Like everything else in our world today... reloading prices are THREE times what they were a few years ago- but I KNOW the COST to make them aren't up 300%. Yes, materials have gone up SOME as has labor... BUT not 300%.

Silencers just cost WAY more than I'll ever spend for what they are. When the market adjusts to what I feel it should be... I'll go buy 5 of them. But until then... they make no financial sense to me for what they give me.

My "two cents"... (and that explains my reasoning here to a tee).

i think it is simply the amount suppressor companies are producing. the suppressor market, while growing is not that large. if it was easier to by a suppressor, i am sure these companies would sell 50 times the amount they are today. it is a lot of investment to tool up to build suppressors for a small return on the number they are selling. the economy of scale is just not there for suppressors. i bet if they became legal in a week the price would drop by half, and in a year they would drop by half again.

 

[HuntInWild88]

I do not disagree with you (or anyone here) at all on the CURRENT cost of making ONE (in your case), or a few (in the case of shops making them today). And I've said I won't spend it myself AT this cost (price) today. I am WELL aware or the cost here guys (and had a good chat with a machinist who offered to make me one a few years back whiole he was making one for a good buddy).

I am ALSO saying they can be made cheaper if they were made in bulk by someone already in the "biz" of manufacturing similar "commodity" priced products (oil filter example). For a 22lr, I'd predict a "throw away" can to come along before too long (like the "solvent trap" adapters you mention- I've seen 9mm use those in vids back 10 years ago... ugly, but works (kinda)).

I feel there is a restriction (or two) keeping cheaper versions from coming out... or maybe just the "risk" factor (insurance cost) of an "over-the-counter" product (such as I am suggesting) that keeps larger makers from entering this market.

I'm NOT against them, I just don't need one myself for the price (and PITA stamp) today. Until that day where pricing (may) come down by "scaling production" (what I am talking about here), if you got a shop and orders... sell em' boys!

Completely agree. The stamp process is a PITA for a form 4 suppressor. If you could by the material in mass bulk then obviously prices would be cut exponentially.
Suppressors cost much less in Europe than they do here and the process is much easier to obtain them there too.
I don't see the prices being cut in half though. For a quality suppressor I can see them being in the $500ish range. If they dropped restrictions and it was a free for all.

 

[Oregon Hunter]

I'm an old miser... So let me piss off a few here with my diatribe... and this is based on the COST of stuff Vs. the "market" for "STUFF"... so please understand- I KNOW what metal cost (and what oil filters cost to make).

First let me say I appreciate a GOOD knife and a GOOD one (made in bulk) cost what is costs- not a lot. I can get an excellent knife for $40 today-- not custom. A CUSTOM knife ALSO costs what is costs... I get craftsmanship. I adore my custom knives and other items HAND made by an artist (and I've paid for several).

Maybe I just don't understand the "intricacies" involved in the making of a silencer... I admit it! To me it's a piece of metal machined to do what it does. BUT TO THIS DAY... I cannot understand WHY these things cost what they do!

No need to explain it to me guys... you're just not going to be able to convince me. I'm sure there are MANY reasons to justify the cost. But in my mind, it's NOT something that should cost more than about $100 based on other manufactured items of similar construction.

If China could export these, I KNOW they would cost next to nothing. Look at the amazing LED lights they sell for $30. Machined to perfection (from aluminum, not steel) with excellent electronics, polished aluminum reflectors, and milled from single stock. Maybe steel work cost more... but (again) in my mind- not more than 3 times as much.

Like everything else in our world today... reloading prices are THREE times what they were a few years ago- but I KNOW the COST to make them aren't up 300%. Yes, materials have gone up SOME as has labor... BUT not 300%.

Silencers just cost WAY more than I'll ever spend for what they are. When the market adjusts to what I feel it should be... I'll go buy 5 of them. But until then... they make no financial sense to me for what they give me.

My "two cents"... (and that explains my reasoning here to a tee).

You've got a point, they are crazy expensive. If I had to guess i would say that materials like titanium and inconel are costly, and tougher to work with? When you think about it, a suppressor has about as much metal as an aftermarket action (which is made of cheaper metal), and those easily go for over $800

 

[Oregon Hunter]

Yes, I have. I've followed the loudspeaker design forums (as a designer) for years. There are now sets of DSP hearing aids that cost less that $100- more usable than a lot of the "traditional" stuff docs sell us. Even Bose is getting into this space. WHY... because they just don't cost that much to make! Over-priced markets are "broke" by innovators... kinda' my point.

I sincerely hope this happens with suppressors

 

[Oregon Hunter]

The wait time and $200 of the paperwork makes people look at silencers as a "last a lifetime" purchase.
For a muzzle device to withstand a lifetime of the gas blasting that they get, exotic and hard materials are needed.
The materials themselves are expensive and machining them is really expensive.
There is some marketing to it, convincing customers that a blast baffle with visible erosion is the end of the world and you can't just use freeze plugs.

But if it wasn't for the paperwork, everybody would buy $30 cans made of pot metal, blast them for a year and chuck em for a new one.

I didn't even think about the extreme pressure they have to withstand for a lifetime

 

[Oregon Hunter]

i think it is simply the amount suppressor companies are producing. the suppressor market, while growing is not that large. if it was easier to by a suppressor, i am sure these companies would sell 50 times the amount they are today. it is a lot of investment to tool up to build suppressors for a small return on the number they are selling. the economy of scale is just not there for suppressors. i bet if they became legal in a week the price would drop by half, and in a year they would drop by half again.

I hope one day we follow the lead the rest of the world has set to look at suppressors as more of a muffler than some James Bond killing device

 

[VinoVino]

I found the biggest POI shift is on my free floated rifles. The longer the barrel, if it's free floated, the bigger the shift. My FC is 18" with the barrel bedded the entire length of the foreend...very little POI shift at 100yds, maybe 1/4". AR with the thin 16" free floating barrel close 6" of POI shift at 100yds...I have a Rugged Radiant it's 12oz so I can't get that much lighter can.

Yeah, its attaching a mass to a cantilevered beam, essentially. Heavier mass, more deflection.