Texas school shooting

[Newtosavage]

Wow !!!!
How is it the tool and not the person
Blame the person and let the law sit squarely on the perp but dont blame me
Taking away my rights because of the actions of others is never the answer but it is a deceptive way to stay in power and usurp your ideas over others
Why is there even an argument about this when all the info about the shooter hasnt come out yet but then it likely never will

Nobody said it was the tool and not the person. This debate is about the person's access to the tool and which tool a person should be allowed to use.

There is a debate about this because someone who should not have had access to the weapons they purchased DID have access because some people insist it's a "right" for an 18 year old to buy semi-auto weapons with high capacity magazines that were specifically designed for killing humans, and then it's their "right" to own and use that weapon without supervision.

Why not 17? Why not 14?

Why shouldn't 12 year olds be allowed to drive on the highway? I know plenty of 12 year olds that can drive better than most people I know.

 

[Wrench]

My oldest daughter literally knocked a kid out in 4th grade once. Never got in trouble and was a straight A student her whole life, but one day in the gym a boy was bullying her friend and she took care of things right in front of the whole class.

Nobody ever said a kid shouldn't defend themselves.

In the situation I described, everyone here would take the stick out of the kid's hands.

Absolutely true....Because the kid already had been told not to hit people with sticks and had been told to stop, but he didn't so a force response was necessary.

You gonna take a stick against a nut in plates with a rifle?

I choose rifle.

 

[Newtosavage]

Absolutely true....Because the kid already had been told not to hit people with sticks and had been told to stop, but he didn't so a force response was necessary.

You gonna take a stick against a nut in plates with a rifle?

I choose rifle.

You can choose rifle but you won't be there the next time this happens, so...

 

[Wrench]

.....and that's why the constitution allows me to protect myself. I'll do my best and not live in fear.

 

[Yarak]

Nobody said it was the tool and not the person.

There is a debate about this because someone who should not have had access to the weapons they purchased did have access because people insist it's a "right" for an 18 year old to buy semi-auto weapons with high capacity magazines that were specifically designed for killing humans, and then it's their "right" to own and use that weapon without supervision.

Why not 17? Why not 14?

Why shouldn't 12 year olds be allowed to drive on the highway? I know plenty of 12 year olds that can drive better than most people I know.

Funny you should mention these things because I was driving at age 12 and had a semiauto rifle in the truck with me
Even drove to school with a semiauto rifle in my truck and it was hanging in the rear window rack for the world to see
Not once did I ever think of using it for anything other than hunting or just shooting just because I could
Who will determine who will not get a firearm is a slippery slope that leads to no one having a firearm
Most states have on their books a law that says something to the effect of " a person that will do harm to themselves or others"
The last thing we need is another gun law

 

[4rcgoat]

It's time to level the playing field......

 

[Newtosavage]

.....and that's why the constitution allows me to protect myself. I'll do my best and not live in fear.

I think the idea here is how to protect innocent victims like school children.

 

[Newtosavage]

Funny you should mention these things because I was driving at age 12 and had a semiauto rifle in the truck with me
Even drove to school with a semiauto rifle in my truck and it was hanging in the rear window rack for the world to see
Not once did I ever think of using it for anything other than hunting or just shooting just because I could
Who will determine who will not get a firearm is a slippery slope that leads to no one having a firearm
Most states have on their books a law that says something to the effect of " a person that will do harm to themselves or others"
The last thing we need is another gun law

Yea, same.

And we already determine who can get a firearm.

 

[Texasbuckeye]

In the oldest daughter situation, you don't advocate lopping off her fist so she isn't a threat did you?

The 2A was set up as a personal right to self defense, that self defense being against enemies both foreign and domestic. Yes, I stole that from the military officer oath of office, but the statement stands and hold water under the SCOTUS rulings, that our personal defense is important and upheld by 2A.

SO, why should we ruin someone's ability to defend themself by limiting the ability to get a gun when there is no reason not to? We all agree those who lie on the form 4473 are breaking the law, and those situations need to be ignored in this mental exercise. But lets remember a lot of people move out of their parents house around 18yo, not as many as before but that seems to the time we deem a lot of kids adults, they graduate HS and can vote, so they are adults for legal purposes.

Lets say your daughter moves into an apartment by herself and can not legally get a gun for self defense (due to the new laws that will be put in place due to this shooting) and she is violated by some perp....whats more important, the right to self defense or the fractionally decreased chance that a kid hellbent on killing might have to wait a little longer to work out their plan than they thought? Don't forget, most of these killers have been planning these scenarios for months if not years, so what another couple years and maybe that would further their plan and give them more ideas for worse things such as bombs or explosive filled vehicles or whatever...these are sick people and trying to think rationally about them is futile.

Consequently, no more laws are going to prevent these situations. That is a lose lose situation. The only way to prevent these situations is to find these perps before they hit, or stop them in their tracks (somehow) after they start.

Trying to stop them before they start is a tricky thing, and usually looking in hindsight there are lots of warnings but seeing these in forward speed they don't usually raise to the level of credible threat.

So how do we stop them in the act? Not incredibly difficult but it will be expensive. I have suggested two easy fixes that would be able to be implemented but the cost will turn any lawmaker away...ballistic glass and ballistic closets. There can be many more options, but those two would stop most of the mayhem in these situations. Not all. There is No fool proof method to remove all threat of crazy people in the US.

 

[Newtosavage]

In the oldest daughter situation, you don't advocate lopping off her fist so she isn't a threat did you?

The 2A was set up as a personal right to self defense, that self defense being against enemies both foreign and domestic. Yes, I stole that from the military officer oath of office, but the statement stands and hold water under the SCOTUS rulings, that our personal defense is important and upheld by 2A.

SO, why should we ruin someone's ability to defend themself by limiting the ability to get a gun when there is no reason not to? We all agree those who lie on the form 4473 are breaking the law, and those situations need to be ignored in this mental exercise. But lets remember a lot of people move out of their parents house around 18yo, not as many as before but that seems to the time we deem a lot of kids adults, they graduate HS and can vote, so they are adults for legal purposes.

Lets say your daughter moves into an apartment by herself and can not legally get a gun for self defense (due to the new laws that will be put in place due to this shooting) and she is violated by some perp....whats more important, the right to self defense or the fractionally decreased chance that a kid hellbent on killing might have to wait a little longer to work out their plan than they thought? Don't forget, most of these killers have been planning these scenarios for months if not years, so what another couple years and maybe that would further their plan and give them more ideas for worse things such as bombs or explosive filled vehicles or whatever...these are sick people and trying to think rationally about them is futile.

Consequently, no more laws are going to prevent these situations. That is a lose lose situation. The only way to prevent these situations is to find these perps before they hit, or stop them in their tracks (somehow) after they start.

Trying to stop them before they start is a tricky thing, and usually looking in hindsight there are lots of warnings but seeing these in forward speed they don't usually raise to the level of credible threat.

So how do we stop them in the act? Not incredibly difficult but it will be expensive. I have suggested two easy fixes that would be able to be implemented but the cost will turn any lawmaker away...ballistic glass and ballistic closets. There can be many more options, but those two would stop most of the mayhem in these situations. Not all. There is No fool proof method to remove all threat of crazy people in the US.

And this right here is why this has and will continue to happen on our watch.

 

[Texasbuckeye]

I am missing your point? It has continued on our watch so how does my suggestion make it still continue?

 

[BuzzH]

913 posts to come to the conclusion that nothing is going to be done about this whole issue.

Carry on with pretending anything will change.

 

[Newtosavage]

913 posts to come to the conclusion that nothing is going to be done about this whole issue.

Carry on with pretending anything will change.

Precisely.

We'll revisit this in a few months or a year when the next slaughter of our school children occurs and likely come to the same conclusion. "nothing can be done... the morals are gone... don't change a thing..." smh

 

[Newtosavage]

I am missing your point? It has continued on our watch so how does my suggestion make it still continue?

"The 2A was set up as a personal right to self defense"

When does that right begin? At birth?

 

[JJJ]

Precisely.

We'll revisit this in a few months or a year when the next slaughter of our school children occurs and likely come to the same conclusion. "nothing can be done... the morals are gone... don't change a thing..." smh

Sorry your lefty solutions aren’t popular. You and a few others on here get butthurt because the rest of us don’t see the world your way.
No sane person wants kids to get killed. Hint - it’s a big reason people don’t want to see full term abortions backed by law.

More laws doesn’t equate to solutions. The root problem has been partially identified. That takes a long time to fix.
More laws is a bandaid solution that historically do not do a thing to help the problem. Taking away rights is not on the table ..another hint - we go by the constitution. Live somewhere else if you disagree.
In the meantime, more trained people with guns will stop the bad guys. Cops are a second line of defense, always. The first line is the shepherd of the flock. Always will be.

 

[Texasbuckeye]

"The 2A was set up as a personal right to self defense"

When does that right begin? At birth?

You didnt answer my question…

How did my post say nothing would or could change?

I gave 2 very specific changes that could be made that do not take away anyones constitutional rights yet could make a hige impact on the ability of students to survive.

All i see you doing is chicken little…put your ideas out there and lets see how rhey stand to public opinion.

Yes my ideas cost money, but they can be implemented locally and would require zero federal law or budget to do. If enough people really “wanted to do
Something” there is a thing called the school board….demand safety measures instead of football stadiums

 

[browning2480]

 

[BuzzH]

You didnt answer my question…

How did my post say nothing would or could change?

I gave 2 very specific changes that could be made that do not take away anyones constitutional rights yet could make a hige impact on the ability of students to survive.

All i see you doing is chicken little…put your ideas out there and lets see how rhey stand to public opinion.

Yes my ideas cost money, but they can be implemented locally and would require zero federal law or budget to do. If enough people really “wanted to do
Something” there is a thing called the school board….demand safety measures instead of football stadiums

You have to be kidding...what public school runs without federal money? The ones in fantasyland?

Teachers are buying school supplies for kids, and your ideas are going to be funded how? Bake sales?

"Through the U.S. Department of Education, the federal government provides nearly $79 billion a year on primary and secondary education programs. The two biggest programs are No Child Left Behind Title I Grants to local school districts ($14.4 billion in fiscal year 2014) and IDEA Special Education State Grants ($11.5 billion in fiscal year 2014).

Other federal agencies that administer funding for primary and secondary education include the Department of Agriculture ($20.8 in fiscal year 2014), which coordinates the funding for the child nutrition programs, the Department of Health and Human Services ($9.3 million in fiscal year 2014), which supports the Head Start program, and the Department of Labor ($5.7 billion in fiscal year 2014), which supports Youth Employment and Training Activities and Youthbuild."

Oh, yeah and don't forget the Feds gave states sections 6 and 36 in every township across large swaths of the US to fund education.

 

[Texasbuckeye]

BuzzH, where did i say no federal budget goes to schools?

What I said was my ideas can be done without REQUIRING any new federal law or budget, big difference.

The things i suggested (which is what people on here have asked “what can be done to help protect the kids”)can he done locally with local money. Yep, will require money. But my suggestions do not infringe on anyones rights, and work to protect kids.


So please, read before you write, and lets work through some Ideas that do not take away law abiding citizen rights.

 

[Flyjunky]

How many billions do we send/give/waste every year? You’re telling me we can’t find the money, it costs too much?

Once again, how much money have we sent to Ukraine? Or, what if Biden sends an invoice to Afghanistan for all the equipment he left over there? We could put that money to use also. Or, we could ask all those people who took money fraudulently from ppp to give it back. Or what about using the leftover Covid money the schools have? I believe it’s reported they have Billions unspent.