Texas school shooting

[skywalkr]

Ummm...NO!

School funding are local, county and state responsibilities. They can raise the funds how they best see fit. One size does not fit all...

Because if there's one thing we do really well in this country it's funding schools appropriately...

 

[Xerute]

So, it sounds like most folks here agree we have a morals problem in this country and that a lot of people just don't value life the way they should.

Meanwhile, we also insist it should be easy for anyone who can legally buy a firearm designed specifically to kill lots of people quickly, (even knowing we have a morals problem in this country and a lot of people who can legally buy firearms, don't value life the way they should).

"First, already laws about murder and going into a gun free zone with a gun. Second, a semi-automatic AR15 and/or pistol is in no way a weapon of war."

So long as we're being this intellectually dishonest, nothing will change.

Please tell me how an AR15 is a weapon of war since I am being intellectually dishonest. In 2022 you don't take an AR15 overseas and that is just a fact.
Seems like a bunch of people want to infringe on others rights (which is used to protect from foreign and domestic threats) and haven't learned that every tyrant in the world has reached for guns first because an unarmed population is easy to control and an armed one is not. All while turning a blind eye to other things that cause far more deaths each year in the United States, so please don't try to take the moral high ground in this argument.

 

[Yoder]

Yes, repeating arms were in general, designed to kill more quickly. But we're educated intelligent animals and we can decide HOW quickly.

Here's a revolver, is this too quickly?

 

[Doc Holliday]

This is not a gun problem it's a people, parent, community, respect, and responsibility problem. The US has allowed lawlessness, disrespect for authority and country, and a complete lack of personal responsibility be the norm.

 

[CoStick]

There are mass shootings in major cities damn near every day... it is where the majority of mass shootings take place. They are also the places with the most strict gun control laws.

Of course you know that, but facts don't matter to guys like you.

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I thought we were talking about school shootings and protection of kids while in school. I have no issues with facts. Has there been mass school shootings in Chicago? I am not sure, but I don’t recall anything like Sandy hook or TX for example. We certainly have them here in Colorado as well.

 

[HairyScandinavian]

I thought we were talking about school shootings and protection of kids while in school. I have no issues with facts. Has there been mass school shootings in Chicago? I am not sure, but I don’t recall anything like Sandy hook or TX for example. We certainly have them here in Colorado as well.

No, half the school kids in Chicago are armed so the shooters stay away.

 

[displacedtexan]

I'm raising the B.S. flag here ^^^^

First of all, the Uvalde shooter didn't have body armor. He was wearing a "tactical" vest without body armor.

Secondly, yes, armed teachers would be effective. Even if a perp was wearing armor, shots outside of the armor can be very effective.

Thirdly, in a confined space (classroom), a pistol can be very effective in engaging a threat.

The trained LEO didn't stop him... But sure, an already underpaid teacher with a pistol in the desk definitely would have.

 

[Dcrafton]

Therein lies the problem. The 18 year old kid wasn't a criminal, yet. He was a law-abiding citizen.

Let me say that again - A LAW ABIDING CITIZEN went into a store and legally bought a weapon specifically designed to kill a lot of human beings quickly, and THEN proceeded to commit a criminal act.

The fact that a store legally handed over a weapon designed specifically for killing a lot of human beings quickly to an 18 year old kid with no knowledge of that kid or his experience with firearms or for that matter, with other people, is a problem. It has been demonstrated over and over again to be a problem. The fact that some people choose to ignore the problem does not mean it's no longer a problem or that it's a problem that cannot be solved.

I’m sorry, law abiding citizens don’t murder people. That is one of the worst crimes. If he was a law abiding citizen he would not commit crimes.


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[CoStick]

No, half the school kids in Chicago are armed so the shooters stay away.

I see, interesting enough, the south has the most school shooting by far, followed by the west.

 

[BjornF16]

Because if there's one thing we do really well in this country it's funding schools appropriately...

We abandoned public schools in the 90s when my oldest was in 2nd grade…

Why? Because public schools abandoned us (at least in the sense of performing core education).

My kids are better for it (and they are all more conservative libertarian than my wife and I).

When I ask my (now adult) kids what is wrong with their peers, they say it is my generation’s fault (I.e. the generation that coddled their kids instead of disciplining them…can’t say they are wrong)

 

[BjornF16]

The trained LEO didn't stop him... But sure, an already underpaid teacher with a pistol in the desk definitely would have.

Give me the details of the engagement of said “trained LEO” that didn’t stop him…

(In case you missed it, I already addressed this…)

 

[displacedtexan]

You did mention body armor in a thread about the Uvalde shooting...

I completely disagree with your conclusion.

I guess teachers could continue to wait around for an armed professional to show up...we see how well that works. IMO, better to give teachers a chance. I know it's not for every teacher...maybe even a very small minority...but it beats the status quo.

The armed professional was shot before he got to the teachers.

 

[hunt1up]

Yes guns aren’t the only problem here. It’s multifaceted. It’s mental health, it’s family life, it’s social media, it’s the glorification of violence through movies and games, you name it.

As for the gun aspect, which IS a contributing factor, where should the line be drawn in what should be owned by civilians and what shouldn’t? Honest question. Some will say no holds barred and I expect that response. Gitcha a bazooka if you can afford it! But let’s get practical. ARs, for example, have only been around since what, the 1960s? Where do we draw the line?

Honest question:

Should this particular 18 year old have been allowed to purchase the guns he did with the ease he did?

I’m not looking for an argument. I’m sincerely asking, even though I think I can predict the array of replies.

 

[displacedtexan]

Well, I just know getting shot at will flat rattle most folks.

Disagree all you want, but wasn't the security guard, a well trained professional of 25+ years, the first to die in the Buffalo shooting?

I'm sure a teacher with minimal training and .380 would suffer the same fate.

We may disagree on some stuff, but your first sentence... 100%

I've never been shot at, but I've stared down the barrel of a gun. And as someone who is usually calm and rational (and very comfortable with guns), it's very unnerving.

 

[skywalkr]

We abandoned public schools in the 90s when my oldest was in 2nd grade…

Why? Because public schools abandoned us (at least in the sense of performing core education).

My kids are better for it (and they are all more conservative libertarian than my wife and I).

When I ask my (now adult) kids what is wrong with their peers, they say it is my generation’s fault (I.e. the generation that coddled their kids instead of disciplining them…can’t say they are wrong)

Not sure what any of that has to do with the fact that our public school system is drastically underfunded. But no, let's leave it up to the local municipalities to raise funds for highly trained, armed security that could actually have stopped something like this. If teachers have to take money out of their own pockets to buy kids school supplies I hope we aren't depending on these RSO's to be able to afford their own ammo to do their jobs.

 

[skywalkr]

Yes guns aren’t the only problem here. It’s multifaceted. It’s mental health, it’s family life, it’s social media, it’s the glorification of violence through movies and games, you name it.

As for the gun aspect, which IS a contributing factor, where should the line be drawn in what should be owned by civilians and what shouldn’t? Honest question. Some will say no holds barred and I expect that response. Gitcha a bazooka if you can afford it! But let’s get practical. ARs, for example, have only been around since what, the 1960s? Where do we draw the line?

Honest question:

Should this particular 18 year old have been allowed to purchase the guns he did with the ease he did?

I’m not looking for an argument. I’m sincerely asking, even though I think I can predict the array of replies.

It is an incredibly complex issue and I guarantee the founding fathers were not contemplating people using firearms to go on mass school shootings on a regular basis when they were writing the constitution. I would hope our highly esteemed founding fathers would have had some better ideas other than throwing their hands up and saying, what can we do?

 

[diamond10x]

When I ask my (now adult) kids what is wrong with their peers, they say it is my generation’s fault (I.e. the generation that coddled their kids instead of disciplining them…can’t say they are wrong)

Such as I’ve stated twice in this thread. I’ve had the same conversation with my parents and had the same answer for them. Not knocking them or you, just that as an average for the generation, they parented terribly.

This tragedy has absolutely nothing to do with guns, and everything to do with crappy “parents” and evil people who never learned respect or morals from discipline.

 

[BjornF16]

The armed professional was shot before he got to the teachers.

No details…

I asked for details…you know…FACTS.

For instance, the armed professional tried to engage the perp from 200 yards with a pistol.

Don’t argue like a liberal…

 

[Red Letters]

whats the saying, there are well over 300 million guns in the US, if we had a gun problem you would know it

 

[BjornF16]

It is an incredibly complex issue and I guarantee the founding fathers were not contemplating people using firearms to go on mass school shootings on a regular basis when they were writing the constitution. I would hope our highly esteemed founding fathers would have had some better ideas other than throwing their hands up and saying, what can we do?

Ja, they did. They locked up mental defectives.