Texas school shooting

[displacedtexan]

This is a genuine question I don't have an answer to, but I like asking hard questions.

Are Americans spoiled, in this instance with their safety and expectations of safety? (i.e. "first world problems")

I ask because nearly all countries lose lives on this scale due to violent acts on a much more regular basis. In the Abbey Gate bombing, 13 US Soldiers perished, but there was also a forgotten 170+ deaths of Afghans. On the daily recently, reports of dozens of Ukrainians die from attacks.

Follow up question: Does the success previous generations of Americans had in providing safety and essentially eliminating peril make Americans less safe in practice?

Wow, we're as safe as a war zone! Awesome!

 

[Farmingdale's Finest]

You think it was only dem's that were against heavy metal music and violent movies?

Please show me any study that definitively connects music and movies with violence. I can almost see video games having a connection especially VR because most people will expect the same reaction after pulling a trigger but be shocked by the carnage after actually pulling a trigger.

 

[rodney482]

Who wants to live in that type of community?

Me

 

[rodney482]

This whole things sucks, but criminals don’t care about laws. If they can’t buy the firearm legally they will buy it elsewhere.
These laws will just cost the law abiding citizens more.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Or mix up fertilizer and Diesel fuel and kill 100’s at a time

 

[rodney482]

Yes guns aren’t the only problem here. It’s multifaceted. It’s mental health, it’s family life, it’s social media, it’s the glorification of violence through movies and games, you name it.

As for the gun aspect, which IS a contributing factor, where should the line be drawn in what should be owned by civilians and what shouldn’t? Honest question. Some will say no holds barred and I expect that response. Gitcha a bazooka if you can afford it! But let’s get practical. ARs, for example, have only been around since what, the 1960s? Where do we draw the line?

Honest question:

Should this particular 18 year old have been allowed to purchase the guns he did with the ease he did?

I’m not looking for an argument. I’m sincerely asking, even though I think I can predict the array of replies.

Nope. Too easy for an 18 year old.
Im fine w waiting periods and checks and bumping the age up to 21.

Same for military service… 21

 

[Newtosavage]

Nope. Too easy for an 18 year old.
Im fine w waiting periods and checks and bumping the age up to 21.
Ok
Same for military service… 21

Can’t believe I’m agreeing with Rodney here but I am.

 

[alaska_bou]

More religion is the answer? Why tax churchses? Oh man...

I do believe in God, but through life experiences and a near death experience I have come to know that God is pure, UNCONDITIONAL love. No religion teaches that. There are ALWAYS terms and conditions attached for the price of admission because most of the world's religions were written by man before mankind had any real understanding of science and natural process. I don't have a problem with religion but I do have a problem with anyone who uses religion to excuse bigorty, hatred, racism, sexism and mysogyny, etc. Lets not forget how many gay and lesbian kids kill themselves each year because their "church" taught them they were less than their straight classmates, how many millions and millions have been killed in the name of religion, the people that find themselves kicked out of their families and ostracized from their communities because they left their churches, or the serial pedophiles and rapists who are relocated and covered up while their victims are ignorned so the churches and communities can save face.. Is it okay to extort believers for 10% of their gross income in exchange for eternal salvation while hording Billions upon Billions of dollars but donating less to humanitarian and charitable causes, as a percentage of their income, than your own local Walmart?

You DO NOT need to subscribe to any religion to love yourself or others, to know right from wrong, or to learn how to be a good parent, role model, or mentor. I recognize there ARE good religious men and women in this world who actually practice what they preach, but I have witnessed far too many of those who wear their religion on their sleeves act as hypocrites and justify their hatred based on a book that says Adam and Eve populated a 6,000 year-old Earth... Oh give me a break.. Evil is a consequence of living in a world with free will and God does not control every aspect of our daily lives like puppets. Sending "thoughts and prayers" is as good as turning your back on dead kids. Mass shootings are becoming a new American tradition and like religion, people need to wake up and start separating fact from fiction with gun violence, start think for themselves, and quit mimmicing what nut-job radicals like Ted Nugent are telling them to think.

I don't have any answers but it is clear this will require legislative action and compromise and from both political sides and this includes the hunting community. As a gun-owning, conservative-leaning independent, I won't give up my rights to own firearms but I AM willing to make any necessary sacrafices if the end result are lives saved. Anyone who isn't should be ashamed of themselves. My children's right to life, and your life, is far more important than someone else's right to buy an assult rifle in 30 minutes or less.

 

[BjornF16]

SCOTUS 2A Decisions References​

I didn't compile this list, I'm just sharing.

From: http://jpfo.org/articles-assd03/scotus-2a-decisions.htm

Supreme Court Rulings relevant to a Free People

The Supreme Court ruled that it had the power to overturn and/or control laws of Congress with the ruling written by the great Chief Justice John Marshall, which simply said: "All laws repugnant to the Constitution are null and void."
Marbury v. Madison, 1803 5 US 137

The Supreme Court decided that a slave could not be a citizen because if he were a citizen, he would be entitled to enjoy all the rights which American citizens enjoy by reason of their citizenship, rights which the "courts would be bound to maintain and enforce," including the rights "to hold public meetings upon political affairs, and to keep and carry arms wherever they went."
Scott v. Sandford, 1857 60 US 691, 705

"The people's right to bear arms, like the rights of assembly and petition, existed long before the Constitution, and is not "in any manner dependent upon that instrument for its existence." This ruling also upheld that all able bodied males are members of the militia (one of three such clear rulings).
U.S. v. Cruikshank, 1876 92 US 542, 553

"All citizens capable of bearing arms constitute the reserve militia, and the states cannot prohibit the people from keeping and bearing arms so as to disable the people from performing the (militia) duty to the general government."
Presser v. Illinois, 1886 116 US 252

"Individuals have a right to possess and use firearms for self-defense."
U.S. v. Beard, 1895 158 US 550

In 1897 the Supreme Court ruled that the right to arms is an "ancient" and "fundamental" right, a right which was "inherited from our English ancestors" and has existed "from time Immemorial."
Robertson v. Baldwin, 1897 165 US 275

The Supreme Court ruled that that by implication even resident aliens have the right to possess "weapons such as pistols that may be supposed to be needed occasionally for self-defense."
Patsone v. Pennsylvania, 1914 232 US 138

The Supreme Court decided that a person facing a deadly attack may use lethal force in his self-defense, adding "Detached reflection cannot be demanded in the presense of an uplifted knife."
U.S. v. Brown, 1921 256 US 335

The Supreme Court stated that, the great and essential rights of the people are secured against legislative as well as against executive ambition. They are secured, not by laws paramount to prerogative, but by constitutions paramount to laws." (Chief Justice Hughes quoting James Madison).
Near v. Minnesota, 1931 283 US 697, 714

"The militia is comprised of all able bodied males ... ordinarily when called these men were expected to appear bearing arms supplied by themselves and of a kind in common (military) use at the time."
U.S. v. Miller, 1939 307 US 174

In a first amendment case involving freedom of the press and religion, the Supreme Court ruled "The power to impose a license fee on a constitutional right amounts to prior restraint and the power to restrict or deny the right ... a tax laid specifically on the exercise of these freedoms would be unconstitutional."
Murdock v. Pennsylvania, 1943 319 US 105

The Supreme Court ruled that "The United States is entirely a creature of the Constitution. Its power and authority have no other source. It can only act in accordance with all the limitations imposed by the Constitution."
Reid v. Covert, 1957 354 US 1

Strangely, the Supreme Court has ruled that a convicted felon is exempt from obeying gun registration laws, that a "proper claim of the constitutional privilege against self-incrimination provides a full defense to prosecutions either for failure to register a firearm ... or for possession of an unregistered firearm."
U.S. v. Hayes, 1968 390 US 85

The Supreme Court has twice ruled that a federal official who deprives a citizen of a right guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution may be held personally liable for damages.
Bivens v. Six Unknown Federal Agents of the Federal Bureau of Narcotics, 1971
403 US 388 / Carlson v. Green, 1980 446 US 14

The Supreme Court ruled that a person enjoys a fundamental right to possess arms until his first conviction for a felony offense.
U.S. v. Lewis, 1980 445 US 95

"Police have no duty to protect any individual, but only a general duty to protect society, and cannot be held personally liable for failure to protect an individual."
South v. Maryland, 1855 / Warren v. District of Columbia, 1981

"The term "the people" as explicitly used in the Second Amendment and elsewhere in the Constitution and Bill of Rights is a term chosen by the Founding Fathers to mean all individuals who make up our national community." U.S. v. Verdugo Urquidez, 1990 No. 88-1353

The Supreme Court has ruled that a state official who, "under color of state law," deprives a citizen of a right guaranteed by the federal Constitution may be held personally liable for damages.
Hafer v. Melo, 1991 No. 90-681

And so that none can be mistaken, the Supreme Court has ruled seven times in the 20th century (plus one concurring opinion) that the first eight amendments express fundamental personal rights guaranteed by the Constitution.

Twining v. New Jersey, 1908 211 US 78
Powell v. Alabama, 1932 287 US 45
Grosjean v. American Press Co., 1936 297 US 233
Gideon v. Wainwright, 1963 372 US 335
Duncan v. Louisiana, 1968 391 US 166
Moore v. East Cleveland, 1976 431 US 494
Planned Parenthood v. Casey, 1992 No. 91-744
Griswold v. Connecticut, 1965 (concurring) 381 US 479

The Supreme Court ruled that public housing tenants in Maine cannot be barred from keeping guns in their homes. 10/2/1995

The United States Supreme Court held that the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution protects an individual's right to possess a firearm for private use in federal enclaves. It was the first Supreme Court case in U.S. history to decide whether the Second Amendment protects an individual right to keep and bear arms for self defense.On June 26, 2008, the Supreme Court affirmed the Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit in Heller v. District of Columbia. The Court of Appeals had struck down provisions of the Firearms Control Regulations Act of 1975 as unconstitutional, determined that handguns are "arms" for the purposes of the Second Amendment, found that the District of Columbia's regulations act was an unconstitutional banning, and struck down the portion of the regulations act that requires all firearms including rifles and shotguns be kept "unloaded and disassembled or bound by a trigger lock" "Prior to this decision the Firearms Control Regulation Act of 1975 also restricted residents from owning handguns except for those registered prior to 1975"
District of Columbia v Heller, 2008 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

Supreme Court affirmed that the 14th Amendment incorporates the 2nd Amendment, meaning that 2nd Amendment applies to the States equally as Federal government. McDonald v. Chi

 

[BjornF16]

18th Century lexicon​

From Noah Webster's 1824 American Dictionary of English Language:

bear - To carry; to convey; to support and remove from place to place; as, 'they bear him upon the shoulder; ', 'the eagle beareth them on her wings.'

arms - 1. Weapons of offense, or armor for defense and protection of the body. 2. In law, arms are any thing which a man takes in his hand in anger, to strike or assault another. A stand of arms consists of a musket, bayonet, cartridge-box and belt, with a sword. But for common soldiers a sword is not necessary.

ordnance - noun [from ordinance.] Cannon or great guns, mortars and howitzers; artillery.

firearms - noun plural Arms or weapons which expel their charge by the combustion of powder, as pistols, muskets, etc

pistol - noun A small fire-arm, or the smallest fire-arm used, differing from a musket chiefly in size. Pistols are of different lengths, and borne by horsemen in cases at the saddle bow, or by a girdle. Small pistols are carried in the pocket.

infringe - 1. To break, as contracts; to violate, either positively by contravention, or negatively by non-fulfillment or neglect of performance. A prince or a private person infringes an agreement or covenant by neglecting to perform its conditions, as well as by doing what is stipulated not to be done. 2. To break; to violate; to transgress; to neglect to fulfill or obey; as, to infringe a law.

"If the citizens neglect their Duty and place unprincipled men in office, the government will soon be corrupted; laws will be made, not for the public good so much as for selfish or local purposes; corrupt or incompetent men will be appointed to execute the Laws; the public revenues will be squandered on unworthy men; and the rights of the citizen will be violated or disregarded."
- Noah Webster

 

[IdahoElk]

According to his Grandpa, Ramos didn't have a drivers license, how does one purchase multiple guns without a drivers license?
Still can get over how this kid was able to afford at least $5k in firearms working part time in Wendy's and how did he obtain a pistol at 18?
Where/who is his dad?

 

[Gutshot007]

Not sure if anyone remember's this one. Some elderly lady walking down the side walk gets clocked by this kid for no apparent reason

 

[Gutshot007]

Here's another one of a lady getting pushed in to an oncoming subway train

 

[Gutshot007]

Here's another of some lady with a walker getting bludgeoned and inch of her life with a pot

 

[Gutshot007]

Damage guns

 

[Gutshot007]

Dam guns !

 

[rodney482]

Can’t believe I’m agreeing with Rodney here but I am.

According to his Grandpa, Ramos didn't have a drivers license, how does one purchase multiple guns without a drivers license?
Still can get over how this kid was able to afford at least $5k in firearms working part time in Wendy's and how did he obtain a pistol at 18?
Where/who is his dad?

One looked like a DD the other not sure.

 

[Gutshot007]

We have a "heart " problem in this country. All of these horrible situations are symptoms

 

[carter33]

Show me where “safety” is a Constitutional right or guarantee?

The closest I find is “life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness”… but those things are defined individually.

Americans used to be proud of “rugged individualism and self sufficiency”, but I’m afraid that is a thing of the past.

I have read through the last few pages and agree with the majority of what you have said and with your general sentiment. However not having a general expectation of safety would, in my opinion, directly impinge ones pursuit of happiness. That to me just further impresses the point that schools should be made to be safe through security measures up to and including armed guards or teachers if necessary.

Most locations that are considered "high risk" of being targeted have much higher standards of security than schools. Look at hospitals, courts, sporting events and concerts for example and almost all will have some sort of professional armed security staff.

I understand and agree with supporting Ukraine however we need to focus our efforts and our money on addressing our issues here at home first and we have plenty to address.

 

[sndmn11]

Wow, we're as safe as a war zone! Awesome!

You're exponential safer.

I'd wager that 95% of Americans born after 1960 will never have a life or death situation that isn't a product of old age.

 

[RyanT26]

I agree with most everything you said, but
1. Won’t happen
2. Won’t happen
3. Happens, not as much as it should though
4-6. Even if can you can get someone to a in person screening, voluntary or not, it’s not the end all be all. I have taken a guy in (not voluntary) that had a gun to his head in front of his wife and kids telling them “he was going to blow his brains all over the living room”. They screened and released with a crisis plan and a appt in 4 days. I have dozens of stories like this. It is crazy what passes as mental health care

Most are done over zoom now in my area now, which are even worse.

Since you are honestly asking…

1. Parents need to take ownership of their kids behavior…and discipline. Stop being their friend and be their parent.

2. Get professional healthcare help when your kids are exhibiting mental health issues. Stop being ostriches.

3. Teachers need to also report exhibited mental health issues.

4. Don’t be afraid to mandate a mental health evaluation .

5. If diagnosed with a mental health issue, then place the person on prohibited person list.

6. LEO can make the referrals for psych evaluation as well.

In the short time since this tragic event, there have already been reports that indicated people knew he had severe issues…yet no one acted.