Texas school shooting

[BjornF16]

The perp was mentally ill...solutions need to focus on this aspect.

This is the best article I've seen so far:

It's Time for Republicans to Be Proactive on School Shootings

The mass shooting in Uvalde, TX, continues to rightfully dominate headlines, and quickly, the conver

redstate.com

 

[Hackleback]

I continue to see these types of events as a mental health crisis that this country continues to deny and/or shun. Mental health is a major issue- we see it everywhere from nonfunctional adolescents to the massive homeless populations everywhere. Do well adjusted happy individuals do stuff like this? Until we deal with mental health in a real and complete way, these types of events will continue.

 

[dsotm]

Too many people in here who don't realize the 2nd amendment is not about hunting

 

[BjornF16]

Anyone that thinks a school teacher with a .380 in the waistband of their pants, skirt, etc. are going to save school kids from an armed killer with body armor and an AR...need to rethink things.

I'm raising the B.S. flag here ^^^^

First of all, the Uvalde shooter didn't have body armor. He was wearing a "tactical" vest without body armor.

Secondly, yes, armed teachers would be effective. Even if a perp was wearing armor, shots outside of the armor can be very effective.

Thirdly, in a confined space (classroom), a pistol can be very effective in engaging a threat.

 

[Kenai_dtracker]

Unfortunately this is not a problem that can be fixed by just banning guns or arming teachers.

Problem with banning guns or making more gun laws is they disproportionately affect minority communities. Which will lead to a no go zone.

There are some teachers that could probably handle themselves very well in an armed conflict. They are the minority. Most are grossly unprepared and have no desire to train. It could be done and done well though.

Armed security or SRO’s in every school sounds easy enough until it comes down to the funding and some of the social justice issues that you’ve already seen rise in schools where police make students feel uncomfortable.

Single point of entry and hardening school entry sounds easy enough, but in application it’s much more difficult to get everybody on board than most realized. Also funding becomes an issue very quickly.

Mental healthcare in America is trash. It needs needs to be scrapped and start over. There is no nice way to put it.

It’s gonna take a conglomerate of things to fix this issue which will never happen because no one‘s going to want to give a inch.

You made some good points, but regarding funding we should all be calling bullshit if the government will not funds school security in whatever form is needed. $40B to Ukraine last week. We have 130,930 public and private k-12 schools, so lets just round that up to 131k. Divide $40B by 131k and that is $305K per school just to start.

 

[DapperDan]

Police ‘Engaged’ Shooter Outside Elementary School Before He Killed 19 Students Inside: State Police

Uvalde school district police “engaged” suspected shooter Salvador Ramos outside the elementary school where he shot and killed 19 students and at least two adults on Tuesday. Texas Department of Public Safety Sgt. Erick Estrada told CNN that Ramos shot his grandmother Tuesday morning before...

www.crimeonline.com

Not looking good for LEO that engaged the shooter prior to entering the school.


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[DapperDan]

It’s not the guns…


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[BjornF16]

Police ‘Engaged’ Shooter Outside Elementary School Before He Killed 19 Students Inside: State Police

Uvalde school district police “engaged” suspected shooter Salvador Ramos outside the elementary school where he shot and killed 19 students and at least two adults on Tuesday. Texas Department of Public Safety Sgt. Erick Estrada told CNN that Ramos shot his grandmother Tuesday morning before...

www.crimeonline.com

Not looking good for LEO that engaged the shooter prior to entering the school.


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Oh boy...

Thought LEO learned the lesson from Florida.

You can't wait for backup...in these unfortunate situations, you need to engage and neutralize immediately.

 

[BuzzH]

I'm raising the B.S. flag here ^^^^

First of all, the Uvalde shooter didn't have body armor. He was wearing a "tactical" vest without body armor.

Secondly, yes, armed teachers would be effective. Even is a perp was wearing armor, shots outside of the armor can be very effective.

Thirdly, in a confined space (classroom), a pistol can be very effective in engaging a threat.

I never said the Uvalde shooter had body armor.

I don't believe for one second that 99.9999999% of anybody will hold it together, all of whom want to go home at the end of the day, against a superior armed bad guy that has nothing to lose. Most that make the decision to do these things realize they aren't going home. That's a huge advantage against people who want to.

Armed teachers stopping these things are a pipe dream...they might be better off with bear spray.

 

[BuzzH]

Oh boy...

Thought LEO learned the lesson from Florida.

You can't wait for backup...in these unfortunate situations, you need to engage and neutralize immediately.

LEO's cant stop him, but an armed teacher would...according to some here.

 

[RyanT26]

You made some good points, but regarding funding we should all be calling bullshit if the government will not funds school security in whatever form is needed. $40B to Ukraine last week. We have 130,930 public and private k-12 schools, so lets just round that up to 131k. Divide $40B by 131k and that is $305K per school just to start.

I agree on the fed side, I was more speaking about individual school districts currently.

 

[DapperDan]

Oh boy...

Thought LEO learned the lesson from Florida.

You can't wait for backup...in these unfortunate situations, you need to engage and neutralize immediately.

Yep…. Especially in a school. I live in Texas so this is close to home for me. Kinda pissed at the whole situation.


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[ODB]

i think it’s sad we posit a solution that in effect has our kids educated in prisons.

This is akin to finding a diet pill for people who can’t stop shoving Twinkie’s in their mouths.

The problem is elsewhere, but no one wants to admit it.

 

[BjornF16]

Anyone that thinks a school teacher with a .380 in the waistband of their pants, skirt, etc. are going to save school kids from an armed killer with body armor and an AR...need to rethink things.

I never said the Uvalde shooter had body armor.

I don't believe for one second that 99.9999999% of anybody will hold it together, all of whom want to go home at the end of the day, against a superior armed bad guy that has nothing to lose. Most that make the decision to do these things realize they aren't going home. That's a huge advantage against people who want to.

Armed teachers stopping these things are a pipe dream...they might be better off with bear spray.

You did mention body armor in a thread about the Uvalde shooting...

I completely disagree with your conclusion.

I guess teachers could continue to wait around for an armed professional to show up...we see how well that works. IMO, better to give teachers a chance. I know it's not for every teacher...maybe even a very small minority...but it beats the status quo.

 

[RyanT26]

Oh boy...

Thought LEO learned the lesson from Florida.

You can't wait for backup...in these unfortunate situations, you need to engage and neutralize immediately.

Ask your local police or sheriffs department how many officers have been to single officer response active shooter training. If you’re lucky they will tell you 50%, realistically probably much less than 25%, if any.

 

[DapperDan]

LEO's cant stop him, but an armed teacher would...according to some here.

Maybe, maybe not. Better odds than defending themselves and kids with a ruler, Bunsen burner, or scissors. And no, I don’t think every teacher needs to be armed. Some don’t need to be around guns period. But, with the right training and discipline, certain faculty being armed would be positive. It will help. If nothing else to slow the advancement of the threat and buy more time for law enforcement or other armed staff to engage.


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[BuzzH]

You did mention body armor in a thread about the Uvalde shooting...

I completely disagree with your conclusion.

I guess teachers could continue to wait around for an armed professional to show up...we see how well that works. IMO, better to give teachers a chance. I know it's not for every teacher...maybe even a very small minority...but it beats the status quo.

Well, I just know getting shot at will flat rattle most folks.

Disagree all you want, but wasn't the security guard, a well trained professional of 25+ years, the first to die in the Buffalo shooting?

I'm sure a teacher with minimal training and .380 would suffer the same fate.

 

[Eltigreblanco]

You did mention body armor in a thread about the Uvalde shooting...

I completely disagree with your conclusion.

I guess teachers could continue to wait around for an armed professional to show up...we see how well that works. IMO, better to give teachers a chance. I know it's not for every teacher...maybe even a very small minority...but it beats the status quo.

My question would be how many teachers are there who actually want to/feel comortable carrying a gun.Where I'm from I'm guessing the number would be really low. I know this number would vary region to region

 

[BuzzH]

Maybe, maybe not. Better odds than defending themselves and kids with a ruler, Bunsen burner, or scissors. And no, I don’t think every teacher needs to be armed. Some don’t need to be around guns period. But, with the right training and discipline, certain faculty being armed would be positive. It will help. If nothing else to slow the advancement of the threat and buy more time for law enforcement or other armed staff to engage.


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The teachers will just be the first ones to die.

Training only goes far when you're getting shot at.

 

[Xerute]

i think it’s sad we posit a solution that in effect has our kids educated in prisons.

This is akin to finding a diet pill for people who can’t stop shoving Twinkie’s in their mouths.

The problem is elsewhere, but no one wants to admit it.

All banks have insane security and some depending where you live have armed guards, all court houses have insane security and armed guards, white house has super insane security and armed guards. If you equate security and guns to a prison then that is your problem and I guess my house is one secure prison. If on the other hand kids look at higher security and or armed guards/law enforcement at school as them being in prison then someone has taught them that either security is bad, guns are bad, or law enforcement is bad and that is a problem.