Suppressor purchase from Silencer Central

[thinhorn_AK]

I haven't had any issues with Silencer Central, but maybe my customer service standards, and expectations are low. I expect to buy my next one from them, but I'm hopeful, there won't be the tax stamp for very much longer.

I used them several times simply because of where I live, the nearest dealer is a flight away. I never really had any issues buying from them other than the last time I used them I didn’t get any correspondence from them for a few weeks so I called them, they told me I needed to update my photo. If they had just told me, it would have saved me a few weeks.


I did run into warranty issues and blatant incompetence from their managers and salespeople. Additionally, their silencers are low quality. The banish 30 is a joke. Mines lives on a rifle that stays on the floor in my truck. I actually saw it today while I was cleaning the truck out.

 

[AdamLewis]

The notification that is sent by Silencer Central and Capitol Armory isn't the CLEO notification of a Form 4. It is notification that a "non-over-the-counter sale" that happens once you fill out and digitally sign your 4473.

The section of their site I linked specifically states that Rule 41F removed the requirement for CLEO signature so now the CLEO just needs to call them to acknowledge receipt.

You are claiming this refers to a non-OTC 4473 sale rather than NFA forms? If that is the case can you show me what part of Rule 41F deals with CLEO signatures on them?

 

[5811]

The section of their site I linked specifically states that Rule 41F removed the requirement for CLEO signature so now the CLEO just needs to call them to acknowledge receipt.

You are claiming this refers to a non-OTC 4473 sale rather than NFA forms? If that is the case can you show me what part of Rule 41F deals with CLEO signatures on them?

'10. Pursuant to 18 U.S.C. 922(c)(3), 27 CFR 478.96(b), and 27 CFR 478.124(f), the licensee
must delay shipment or delivery of the firearm for at least seven days following receipt by
the licensee of either the return receipt evidencing delivery of the copy of the Form 4473
to the CLEO, or the return of the copy of the Form 4473 to the licensee due to refusal of
the CLEO to accept the same in accordance with U.S. Postal Service regulations; "

If the notice was not delivered, the 7 days cannot start. This is not Silencer Central's fault.

 

[HandgunHTR]

The section of their site I linked specifically states that Rule 41F removed the requirement for CLEO signature so now the CLEO just needs to call them to acknowledge receipt.

You are claiming this refers to a non-OTC 4473 sale rather than NFA forms? If that is the case can you show me what part of Rule 41F deals with CLEO signatures on them?

@5811 answered the question. As you can see it has nothing to do with 41F. It is a separate requirement when doing a non-over-the-counter firearms transfer.

 

[Dave C.]

However, there is NOTHING which states that the licensee must wait for ATF approval before sending the CLEO letter. They could send it when they submit to ATF so that the wait times overlap but they're too cheap to waste a stamp on the rare off-chance that an applicant gets denied by ATF. CLEO has no authority to deny or approve an applicant. It is purely a "notification," 100% unnecessary regulation, and most letters end up in the trash of local LEO.

 

[5811]

However, there is NOTHING which states that the licensee must wait for ATF approval before sending the CLEO letter. They could send it when they submit to ATF so that the wait times overlap but they're too cheap to waste a stamp on the rare off-chance that an applicant gets denied by ATF. CLEO has no authority to deny or approve an applicant. It is purely a "notification," 100% unnecessary regulation, and most letters end up in the trash of local LEO.

Dave, we've been over this multiple times in multiple threads. What you are stating has been shown to be incorrect numerous times.

At this point, I have to assume you either can't or won't admit you've been wrong. I no longer care if you understand.

But for anyone else reading, Dave is confusing the CLEO notification that is part of the stamp submission with the CLEO notice that must be sent prior to item shipment for a non-over-the-counter firearm sale.

When you pickup a firearm (including suppressors) at a gun store, you fill out 4473 before you can take it home. This is separate from the tax stamp. To have this item shipped directly to your door, you must complete the 4473 for a non-over-the-counter sale, which includes a SECOND CLEO notice that can only be submitted after you are approved for the stamp, but before shipment of the item.

Silencer Central is not trying to skimp on stamps. They send the first CLEO notice when you submit, just like everyone else.

 

[Mtelkslayer94]

Either way that seems unnecessary to wait for them to acknowledge a form which they have no authority over as mine didn’t get picked up for a week and a half after numerous people calling and emailing including the attorney generals office. Such a waste of time. With that being said I wouldn’t recommend getting one ordered to your home unless you don’t have a dealer nearby.

 

[5811]

Either way that seems unnecessary to wait for them to acknowledge a form which they have no authority over as mine didn’t get picked up for a week and a half after numerous people calling and emailing including the attorney generals office. Such a waste of time. With that being said I wouldn’t recommend getting one ordered to your home unless you don’t have a dealer nearby.

I agree that the best practice is local if you have a good one nearby.

However, the 4473 can deny purchase, as was the case in the Lewiston Maine shooter in 2023. If the CLEO reviews the answers on the form and finds it not prudent to approve, they can deny the transfer. What's interesting to me is that if they don't read it in a week, it still gets approved, even if it should not.

 

[Dave C.]

'10. Pursuant to 18 U.S.C. 922(c)(3), 27 CFR 478.96(b), and 27 CFR 478.124(f), the licensee
must delay shipment or delivery of the firearm for at least seven days following receipt by
the licensee of either the return receipt evidencing delivery of the copy of the Form 4473
to the CLEO, or the return of the copy of the Form 4473 to the licensee due to refusal of
the CLEO to accept the same in accordance with U.S. Postal Service regulations; "

If the notice was not delivered, the 7 days cannot start. This is not Silencer Central's fault.

Show me where in that section it states that the process cannot start until the ATF approval has been obtained. It doesn't.

 

[5811]

Show me where in that section it states that the process cannot start until the ATF approval has been obtained. It doesn't.

That's because that section was clipped to show the mailing regulations. The answer to your question is here:

"Furthermore, 18 U.S.C. 922(t)(1) and its implementing regulations at 27 CFR 478.102(a) require a licensee to contact NICS for a background check prior to completion of a firearm transfer to an unlicensed person, and verify the identity of that person by examining a valid identification document. The statute at 18 U.S.C. 922(t)(3) and implementing regulation at 27 CFR 478.102(d) provide exceptions to these requirements if: (1) the transferee has presented a valid permit or license (“alternate permit”) that: (i) allows the transferee to possess, acquire, or carry a firearm; (ii) was issued not more than 5 years earlier by the State in which the transfer is to take place; and (iii) the law of the State provides that such a permit or license is to be issued only after an authorized government official has verified that the information available to such official does not indicate that possession of a firearm by the transferee would be in violation of Federal, State, or local law, and includes completion of a NICS background check; (2) the firearm is subject to the provisions of the National Firearms Act and has been approved for transfer under 27 CFR Part 479; or (3) on application of the licensee, in accordance with 27 CFR 478.150, the ATF Director has certified that running a NICS background check is impracticable."

I've given you a link to the full document. I've even shown you this quote before. If you choose to reject the information I have provided, try this:

Buy a suppressor at a lgs. Before it is approved, ask them to let you fill out and submit your 4473 for firearm transfer.

 

[HandgunHTR]

Show me where in that section it states that the process cannot start until the ATF approval has been obtained. It doesn't.

Dave, he literally posted the law in post #23.

You are conflating two different things. For a non-over-the-counter purchase of a suppressor, the CLEO needs to be notified twice. The first one, notification of the Form 4, can take place at any time, and is done by everyone once the Form 4 is filled out and submitted to the ATF. The second notification is of a non-over-the-counter sale of a firearm and cannot be done until the 4473 is filled out, which isn't done until the Form 4 is approved. That one also requires a 7-day wait until the transfer can proceed (as per the law posted above).

I get it, you don't like SC. Neither do I, but please take the time to actually read through the responses, rather than just jump in with an emotional reply.

 

[Mike D Texas]

I agree that the best practice is local if you have a good one nearby.

However, the 4473 can deny purchase, as was the case in the Lewiston Maine shooter in 2023. If the CLEO reviews the answers on the form and finds it not prudent to approve, they can deny the transfer. What's interesting to me is that if they don't read it in a week, it still gets approved, even if it should not.

To the best of my knowledge.edge, the CLEO never sees the 4473 nor can he deny it.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Gynaroo]

I would assume that SC has many attorneys advising them on rules and regulations. I would also expect that they are doing as the law and their attorneys are telling them. 5811 is correct and has stated it multiple times. It’s interesting on this forum when someone uses facts they get attacked or name called.

I’ve bought 4/5 cans from SC. It’s annoying to wait for the paperwork to CLEO. I’ve had one time where the USPS lost the paperwork and it added time. But I used them as it was convenient and I didn’t know anything different.

I’ve since bought 3 suppressors from my local Dealer/FFL that has a silencer shop Kiosk. Silencer shop has their own issues that makes their times for me in rural Wyoming have roughly the same timeline of purchase to Can in my hands as does Silencer Central. Is one better. I think so cause I’m supporting a local business. But timelines are the same.

 

[Dave C.]

Well, apparently I'm not the only one who has complaints and issues with SC as a quick search shows at least half a doz threads on this forum alone with multiple posts from users who will never use them again. Meanwhile, other online dealers like Capitol Armory have NONE. How do you explain that?? Y'all can believe whatever you want but SC does things differently and unnecessarily which leads to additional wait times and their CS is horrible.

 

[Dave C.]

That's because that section was clipped to show the mailing regulations. The answer to your question is here:

"Furthermore, 18 U.S.C. 922(t)(1) and its implementing regulations at 27 CFR 478.102(a) require a licensee to contact NICS for a background check prior to completion of a firearm transfer to an unlicensed person, and verify the identity of that person by examining a valid identification document. The statute at 18 U.S.C. 922(t)(3) and implementing regulation at 27 CFR 478.102(d) provide exceptions to these requirements if: (1) the transferee has presented a valid permit or license (“alternate permit”) that: (i) allows the transferee to possess, acquire, or carry a firearm; (ii) was issued not more than 5 years earlier by the State in which the transfer is to take place; and (iii) the law of the State provides that such a permit or license is to be issued only after an authorized government official has verified that the information available to such official does not indicate that possession of a firearm by the transferee would be in violation of Federal, State, or local law, and includes completion of a NICS background check; (2) the firearm is subject to the provisions of the National Firearms Act and has been approved for transfer under 27 CFR Part 479; or (3) on application of the licensee, in accordance with 27 CFR 478.150, the ATF Director has certified that running a NICS background check is impracticable."

I've given you a link to the full document. I've even shown you this quote before. If you choose to reject the information I have provided, try this:

Buy a suppressor at a lgs. Before it is approved, ask them to let you fill out and submit your 4473 for firearm transfer.

You obviously are not reading the section you are using to defend SC. This section states that the licensee do a background check BEFORE selling a firearm. The subsequent statutes then provide EXCEPTIONS to that requirement which include: (1) If the applicant has an alternate permit(i.e. CCW), (2) if it has been approved for transfer(i.e. the false premise that you are claiming here is a requirement rather than an exception to the requirement), or (3) an impracticable background check.

By submitting the application to ATF, SC has already done the background check. Therefore, (2) does not apply.

 

[The Harbor Master]

I apologize for slightly derailing OP's thread but...

It's easy to get used to the process and I appreciate those that are well versed and can explain the minutae... but do you ever step back and try to look at this whole process objectively? I mean, how patently insane it is? The hoops, the fees, the 'please if it's ok mr police man' letters that have to be sent... all to have a metal tube that makes it so you don't damage your or someone else's hearing.

Of all the second amendment related shenanigans we put up with, the suppressor purchasing process just blows my mind.

 

[5811]

You obviously are not reading the section you are using to defend SC. This section states that the licensee do a background check BEFORE selling a firearm. The subsequent statutes then provide EXCEPTIONS to that requirement which include: (1) If the applicant has an alternate permit(i.e. CCW), (2) if it has been approved for transfer(i.e. the false premise that you are claiming here is a requirement rather than an exception to the requirement), or (3) an impracticable background check.

By submitting the application to ATF, SC has already done the background check. Therefore, (2) does not apply.

Yes, 2 is the valid exception to showing ID and running a background check, as is done when you pick up a firearm, or in this case, a suppressor, in person. Not before selling, as you say. Before transfer.

Maybe it will make more sense if you read it in context. Again, I have attached the full guideline document for your review.

Well, apparently I'm not the only one who has complaints and issues with SC as a quick search shows at least half a doz threads on this forum alone with multiple posts from users who will never use them again. Meanwhile, other online dealers like Capitol Armory have NONE. How do you explain that?? Y'all can believe whatever you want but SC does things differently and unnecessarily which leads to additional wait times and their CS is horrible.

If you are so sure that Capitol Armory does not apply the same understanding of the rule when they mail their 4473 to CLEO for a non-OTC sale, please provide evidence of it.

I am not defending Silencer Central. They do get a lot of complaints, here and other places, many for good reason. I would not use them again, knowing what I know now. But what you are spreading is not correct.

 

[HandgunHTR]

If you are so sure that Capitol Armory does not apply the same understanding of the rule when they mail their 4473 to CLEO for a non-OTC sale, please provide evidence of it.

I am not defending Silencer Central. They do get a lot of complaints, here and other places, many for good reason. I would not use them again, knowing what I know now. But what you are spreading is not correct.

They absolutely do. I know because I just bought my last one from them.

Here is a direct copy/paste from the email I got from them when my Form 4 was approved. I have highlighted the pertinent part.

First, log in to your account to complete the digital ATF Form 4473. Once you are within your account, you can see your approvals and generate the ATF Form 4473 for all current approvals. Completing the ATF Form 4473 lets us ship your NFA item directly to your home.​ Pay close attention to the instructions and triple-check your responses before submitting the form. Processing these documents takes a considerable amount of our staff's time, and most errors can easily be prevented by triple-checking each field and following the instructions closely. By law, we cannot assist you with filling out this form. Once you complete the form, sign it digitally, and submit it, we will notify the CLEO in your state that we are conducting a non-over-the-counter sale to you. We provide your contact information but do not include the details of your order. We are required to wait seven days from the date they receive the notice before we can ship your item. Due to the CLEO notification and seven-day waiting period, the shipping process may take 2-3 weeks from the date you complete the ATF Form 4473. Once the waiting period has expired, we will ship your item to the address on your ID/DL/LTC, and you will receive a tracking number for the shipment. We ship all items via UPS ground with adult signature required. If an adult cannot be at your residence during delivery, please coordinate with UPS a time to pick up the item or arrange for an alternate delivery address (service available through UPS for an additional fee.) See www.UPS.com for additional details.​

 

[thinhorn_AK]

I apologize for slightly derailing OP's thread but...

It's easy to get used to the process and I appreciate those that are well versed and can explain the minutae... but do you ever step back and try to look at this whole process objectively? I mean, how patently insane it is? The hoops, the fees, the 'please if it's ok mr police man' letters that have to be sent... all to have a metal tube that makes it so you don't damage your or someone else's hearing.

Of all the second amendment related shenanigans we put up with, the suppressor purchasing process just blows my mind.

Nope, you're the only person who has ever thought that....

 

[Okie_Poke]

I bought a Banish Backcountry from them on 12/31 and filled out the forms within a day or two. It took them a couple of weeks to ship me the finger print cards and they started harassing reminding me to return them before I had received them. But, they were sending reminders via text and email, so that was good. I turned those around within a couple of days and about a week later they contacted me to do the interview/call thing to finalize submission to the ATF. That call and submission to ATF were on Friday of last week (12/31), and I received ATF approval yesterday (2/5). It only took three business days for the ATF to approve a trust submission! That's a lot better than the 9-12 months I had to wait for my prior suppressors seveal years ago.

I did the e4473 form today. I gues we'll see how this (second ?) CLEO notification goes and how long it takes SC to get the thing shipped to me.