Struggling to see the point of 6.5's

[Rick M.]

I eat a crapload of game meat throughout the year. Wondering if I'm going to die or get sick by lead ingestion from game meat is way, way, way down the list of things I worry about on a daily basis. .

Hell yeah, brother!!

 

[Newtosavage]

Yeah... the fact that it's a stigma here is unfortunate. You and I both use copper monos, so I think that changes the game for us with respect to getting all of the benefits from the 6.5 cartridges. From what I've read, need cartridges that start fast and stay fast, guaranteeing the best possible expansion. The great thing about monos is the penetration, even with lighter bullets. Form has me looking really hard at the 6mm CM, and I just read about the 6mm ARC today, which I had no idea even existed. The 6CM starts fast and holds it's velocity really well up to about 450 yards.

I'm looking more closely at the 6.5 PRC. I need something I can use as a backup to my .308, or instead of my .308 if I think the conditions are more favorable for longer shots. Heck, if I found a 6.5-something that was uber-accurate with enough umph to deliver the goods at 500 yards, I might even make it my primary and use the .308 as my backup.

But I'd hate for something to happen to my .308 and find myself wandering around with a rifle designed more for 125 lb. whitetails when I may be faced with a 1k lb. elk or moose.

 

[z987k]

Eh... I've been discussing the possible implications of ingesting lead via game meat the entire time. Not sure what you mean by this. Whether or not the lead ingested is inorganic or organic is simply a nuance of the conversation.

Different isotopes of an element correspond to the amount of neutrons it has. This has nothing whatsoever to do with organic vs inorganic chemistry. Or how one element reacts with another. The only way you'd care if the lead was a different isotope is if it was an unstable one and radioactive. Of which virtually none of the naturally occurring lead is.

The research contradicts your last sentence. Macroscopic and macroscopic lead fragments are found, on average, a maximum distance of eleven inches from the original wound cavity. This is stated directly in the recent Minnesota game meat study that I recently linked. The tenderloins are on the underside of the animals spine, and would be an easy candidate for led fragmentation to be present. Unless you meant the back straps?

I meant from the studies I've read, you'd not expect to see a fragment of lead inter-muscular on a muscle a long ways from the bullet path. I went with tenderloin because it's generally over a foot from the heart on the game I like to hunt.
The most damning stuff I've seen are the x-rays of the ground meat.

 

[Rick M.]

I'm looking more closely at the 6.5 PRC. I need something I can use as a backup to my .308, or instead of my .308 if I think the conditions are more favorable for longer shots. Heck, if I found a 6.5-something that was uber-accurate with enough umph to deliver the goods at 500 yards, I might even make it my primary and use the .308 as my backup.

But I'd hate for something to happen to my .308 and find myself wandering around with a rifle designed more for 125 lb. whitetails when I may be faced with a 1k lb. elk or moose.

You might want to have a look at the 6.5 Weatherby RPM (if you handload). It has more juice than the PRC, but not at the insanity of something like the 26 Nosler. I owned a Tikka CTR in 6.5 PRC. It was fun on the range, but too heavy for toting around the mountains (Idaho is steep). It was one of those calibers that I had no real attachment to, if that makes sense.

6.5 WBY RPM - Weatherby, Inc.

6.5 WBY RPM (Rebated Precision Magnum) Weatherby has traditionally designed and built ultra-high velocity cartridges with unique case designs-belted magnums with a double-radius shoulder. This is seen in all of the existing Weatherby cartridges until now. The Mark V 6 lug standard action has...

weatherby.com

 

[z987k]

Yeah... the fact that it's a stigma here is unfortunate. You and I both use copper monos, so I think that changes the game for us with respect to getting all of the benefits from the 6.5 cartridges. From what I've read, need cartridges that start fast and stay fast, guaranteeing the best possible expansion. The great thing about monos is the penetration, even with lighter bullets. Form has me looking really hard at the 6mm CM, and I just read about the 6mm ARC today, which I had no idea even existed. The 6CM starts fast and holds it's velocity really well up to about 450 yards.

Check out the 6mm PRC wildcat. That really gets em moving. Use a high BC mono and you have your velocity way out there.
I also use nothing but monos now. I really don't care what other people think, I've killed 6 caribou now with a 125gr BD-2 out of a 6.5cm, 1 moose with a 175lrx and my sheep with a 225gr BD-2. Lowest impact velocity on the BD-2 was about 2100, because with such high BC's and the extra speed they get from being lighter, I never have to worry about sub 2200fps impacts under 500 yards. Even out of a 6.5CM.
They kill fine if you hit the vitals.

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

So my revered 308 Win is usable to 550 yards or so.

My “what’s the point” 6.5 CM is usable to 800 yards or so.

My “maybe not worth it” 6.5 PRC is usable to about 1100 yards or so.

Must be common core math where a 308 Win is always a better choice than the despised 6.5s.

But I get it. I want a 7mm-08, 270 Win and 7mm RM as they’re great. However, they do nothing for me as I have all of those bases covered. I should sell my anemic 308 and grab the 270.

Use what you want and let others use what they want.

 

[Rick M.]

Check out the 6mm PRC wildcat. That really gets em moving. Use a high BC mono and you have your velocity way out there.
I also use nothing but monos now. I really don't care what other people think, I've killed 6 caribou now with a 125gr BD-2 out of a 6.5cm, 1 moose with a 175lrx and my sheep with a 225gr BD-2. Lowest impact velocity on the BD-2 was about 2100, because with such high BC's and the extra speed they get from being lighter, I never have to worry about sub 2200fps impacts under 500 yards. Even out of a 6.5CM.
They kill fine if you hit the vitals.

I'm a big fan of wildcats, and this bad boy looks incredible:

I'd never heard of the BD-2 prior to last night (only Barnes and Hammer). Sounds like they perform pretty well. I'll have to give them a shot. The LRX and TTSX haven't let me down yet, and I'm looking into the Hammers for next season (or I may try one on a whitetail for the Wisconsin holiday hunt).

 

[sndmn11]

Heck, I used the most amount of deer/elk points I ever thought I'd accrue on a deer hunt this year. My choice was a pink and orange rainbow rifle chambered in 6.5 creed sending 85grain monos that had terrible BC. Fully knowing the disadvantages I was bringing.

The buck went zero yards on his own and slid a few yards downhill.

 

[Rick M.]

My biggest takeaway from the "223" thread is how they guys were able to get in tons of practice using their actual hunting system. The ammo is more abundant and relatively inexpensive. Unfortunately, I'm not sure that the system works for mono guys, but I'm willing to try. I also like the idea of having light enough recoil to stay on target through the shot and watch my impacts. No way I can do that with the 280 AI, as much as I love it. That would even be challenging with the 6.5 PRC.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Haven't used a 6.5, nor is one anywhere in the future. Folks use what works for them and that is what gets the job done. A writer said years ago the best gun to use in the field is the one you have with you.

I have used monos since I discovered Barnes somewhere around 30 years ago and can count the number of critters taken with a bullet containing lead on one hand with a finger or two left over in that time span. I too, don't care what others say, experience says what has worked for me.

This is all gonna come full circle anyway. Much concern about being able to reach out and touch something at 500 yards and beyond due to "lowly" BC's...

At some point all hunters will shoot monos because lead is going to be illegal everywhere. Going to be a lot of good rigs gathering dust because folks will believe they have to have the highest bc and latest designer bullet (because the internet said so) and have forgotten how to hunt and get within 1/4 (!) mile of an animal.

 

[Rick M.]

Heck, I used the most amount of deer/elk points I ever thought I'd accrue on a deer hunt this year. My choice was a pink and orange rainbow rifle chambered in 6.5 creed sending 85grain monos that had terrible BC. Fully knowing the disadvantages I was bringing.

The buck went zero yards on his own and slid a few yards downhill.

Congrats on a successful hunt, and thanks for the field data!

 

[35WhelenAI]

Heck, I used the most amount of deer/elk points I ever thought I'd accrue on a deer hunt this year. My choice was a pink and orange rainbow rifle chambered in 6.5 creed sending 85grain monos that had terrible BC. Fully knowing the disadvantages I was bringing.

The buck went zero yards on his own and slid a few yards downhill.

How did that animal ever die? So many things stacked against you... humor intended.

 

[ARK_Ginger]

I know we’re trying to steer this ship back on course, but I’m much more concerned about the gases coming out of my suppressed ars and shooting guns indoors (from the fumes) than lead particles in the meat. I haven’t seen any studies with thorough enough data about the bioavailability of those lead particles to raise concern for me. I realize this has already been pointed out in this thread. I also realize everyone allows different amounts of risk in their lives.

I just hope you guys concerned about lead in your meat aren’t eating Cheetos and Oreos while drinking a Coke thinking callories in = calories out is going to keep you from being overweight because the food lobbyist studies and food pyramid told you so. Cause those things will likely run you into the ground health wise long before lead will.

At some point all hunters will shoot monos because lead is going to be illegal everywhere.

I think this should be the concern of any freedom minded individual. It’s should the governments place to tell us what we can and can’t use.

 

[sndmn11]

Congrats on a successful hunt, and thanks for the field data!

I fully admit that monolithic bullets do not produce wound channels anywhere near what a lead bullet is capable of. I also fully admit that I believe in the statistics of hit probability that were shown earlier in this thread, and my bullet choice would not math out well at all.

I'm also ok experimenting to see first hand results, and I'll be ok saying no to shots when they are close to the above limitations.

If someone wanted to create the most lethal platform from a precision stand point and a terminal performance stand point, that likely is a bit off the path.

@KickinNDishin and I are the folks who do question what we put in our bodies (I am not COVID vaccinated) and we are ok knowing that choosing to not put something in our bodies may not be the best choice in hindsight down the road, but choosing to do so (whatever it is) may have irreversible effects.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Lead is a poison, period. A low totem pole item of the worries we should be concerned about with respect to our freedoms, IMO. Are folks still lamenting and calling it a lost freedom that lead was removed from gasoline? Or pipes with lead were phased out for putting water in homes? Newer things came along and we still have cars that run and water that flows. We too, will have bullets that fly through the air. The point is there are much more important things with respect to freedom and government overreach for me than dying on this hill.

 

[Rob5589]

Well it's really my fault for openly admitting I use monos. I forgot the don't ask don't tell policy on monos was still in effect here. I'll do my best to remember next time.

I use em too, have to. Commiefornia. Just don't tell anyone

 

[Newtosavage]

So my revered 308 Win is usable to 550 yards or so.

My “what’s the point” 6.5 CM is usable to 800 yards or so.

My “maybe not worth it” 6.5 PRC is usable to about 1100 yards or so.

Must be common core math where a 308 Win is always a better choice than the despised 6.5s.

They are all just tools.

I think this should be the concern of any freedom minded individual. It’s should the governments place to tell us what we can and can’t use.

It's not. It's the officials that we all elect. The executive branch does what it says - executes - the laws passed by the politicians that WE ALL elect.

And we are told what we can and can't use literally every day of our lives. So it's nothing new.

My primary interest in monos is their repeatable accuracy, followed closely by an interest in not putting any more lead into me or whatever eats my gut pile, than I have to. But if monos were not as accurate as they are, I wouldn't use them. But they are, so I do.

And folks, let's please do try to get this conversation off the lead/mono debate. If you want to argue that, start your own thread.

 

[Rick M.]

Lead is a poison, period. A low totem pole item of the worries we should be concerned about with respect to our freedoms, IMO. Are folks still lamenting and calling it a lost freedom that lead was removed from gasoline? Or pipes with lead were phased out for putting water in homes? Newer things came along and we still have cars that run and water that flows. We too, will have bullets that fly through the air. The point is there are much more important things with respect to freedom and government overreach for me than dying on this hill.

Yup. We learn, adapt, and move forward. For me, it's an easy concession, and I don't even live in California.

 

[Wingshooter]

I don't see the point of the 6.5 craze the old grumpy part of me says it's so rifle company's can sell more rifles. I really don't see myself killing anything with the new cartridges that I couldn't have just as well with my 7mm remingtion. I am the weak link if I do my part at distance especially there will be a dead animal that's easier for me when I have hunted with a certain rifle for the last 20 years. If buying every new round that comes down the pike makes you smile have at it, It's just not for me.

 

[35WhelenAI]

I don't see the point of the 6.5 craze the old grumpy part of me says it's so rifle company's can sell more rifles. I really don't see myself killing anything with the new cartridges that I couldn't have just as well with my 7mm remingtion. I am the weak link if I do my part at distance especially there will be a dead animal that's easier for me when I have hunted with a certain rifle for the last 20 years. If buying every new round that comes down the pike makes you smile have at it, It's just not for me.

Ditto, could not agree more.