Strange Observation in Idaho

[JLH208]

If you got rid of all the Out of State hunters could you get an elk then, or would you need to get rid of everyone from outside of the County you live in? Maybe you would need a longer season or IF&G to keep one on a leash for you. From what I saw you have no crowding issues. None. You just need to get off the road.

Not sure who you are talking to, but reread the original post if you're confused. I just saw something I hadn't seen before and wondered if something changed in Oregon and Washington.


- Jesse

 

[JLH208]

Here's information, Out of State Elk tags and General deer tags are SOLD OUT for non-residents for 2017

Nonresident elk tags sold out for 2017, deer selling fast | Idaho Fish and Game

Out of state hunters, my opinion, this was predicted for this year. If they do not predict or see heavy sales for archery season they offer residents a second tag at $100 discount (normally have to pay full NR price). This year they did not discount sighting earlier they were anticipating selling out. With some people obviously not getting a tag because they are no sold out, even though I don't see that being a lot of people because it's late in the year already. With this news, it might spur faster sales next year and sell out faster because of fear of not getting a tag.

That's good info, thank you. That's what I was intending to receive with this post... Useful info, facts, so thank you. 3 pages later haha


- Jesse

 

[blackpowderhunter]

Not sure who you are talking to, but reread the original post if you're confused. I just saw something I hadn't seen before and wondered if something changed in Oregon and Washington.


- Jesse

tags were drastically reduced in WA this year, at least cow tags in most of the units. The unit we usually muzzleloader hunt used to give out 200 ish cow tags that you on average, could draw every 2-3 years. this year it was reduced to 20 tags. the same reductions were made in many of the popular units. now, you could still hunt spikes OTC, but we hunted archery this year to avoid that.
BUT
I don't think that many people head out of state to hunt antlerless hunts so that may or may not have had anything to do with it.

 

[JLH208]

Interesting, I also made an observation in Idaho, and if we are going to be making broad generalizations maybe you should spend some time preaching to your own “statesmen” you see, this year in Idaho we found two shot and lost bulls. After talking with the IDFG warden he shared with me that he is investigating a group of locals who left as many as 10 bulls in the woods to waste this year, hmmm to me it doesn’t sound like guys like myself are the issue. Quit crying on forums and get to work! I’m so tired of dudes bitching about how things are “ruined for them.” I hiked 65 miles during my hunt, know how many hunters I saw? Zero...everyone including residents in the area told me, get 1/2 mile from the road and you’ll cut 50% of Idaho hunters out as they just road hunt. I encourage anyone and everyone to go and enjoy OUR public lands. That’s exactly what it’s there for.

Tell me in the original post where I suggested I was bitching and complaining or blaming OOS hunters for anything.

- Jesse

 

[JLH208]

tags were drastically reduced in WA this year, at least cow tags in most of the units. The unit we usually muzzleloader hunt used to give out 200 ish cow tags that you on average, could draw every 2-3 years. this year it was reduced to 20 tags. the same reductions were made in many of the popular units. now, you could still hunt spikes OTC, but we hunted archery this year to avoid that.
BUT
I don't think that many people head out of state to hunt antlerless hunts so that may or may not have had anything to do with it.

Interesting, thank you. What was the reason to jump from 200 to 20?


- Jesse

 

[blackpowderhunter]

Interesting, thank you. What was the reason to jump from 200 to 20?


- Jesse

the jump up to 200 many years ago was already met with quite the opposition. but washington, like many states I believe sets tag quotas and seasons for 2 or 3 year increments. anyways, this had apparently been decided a few years ago to try and help the herd, but many people were saying it was due to last years rough winter, which couldn't have been the case since it was already decided.
so long answer short... i don't really know.

 

[Idahohillboy]

That's not correct. Per IDFG website:

"Nonresident, general-season tags are limited to 15,500 for deer and 12,815 for elk. These tags are sold over the counter and are reserved for nonresidents through July 31. That allotment has a few held back for outfitters, as well.
On August 1, all remaining nonresident tags (including the outfitter set-aside) are available to residents and nonresidents as second tags. They are sold at nonresident prices unless discounted by the Fish and Game commission."

Thats correct but not correct. They cap tags in general at that number but not per zone with exclusion of certain capped zones. What this means is 2000 out of state tags can go in an uncapped zone thus a huge spike in non res hunters and then a bunch of bitching residents. In 2016 there was a 400 tag increase in purchased put of state tags hunting my zone. This zone I hunt was capped up until 2015 then they let it become uncapped. To handle over crowding they should cap every unit and give out same amount of non res tags imo. First come first serve basis.


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[David Gough]

Thats correct but not correct. They cap tags in general at that number but not per zone with exclusion of certain capped zones. What this means is 2000 out of state tags can go in an uncapped zone thus a huge spike in non res hunters and then a bunch of bitching residents. In 2016 there was a 400 tag increase in purchased put of state tags hunting my zone. This zone I hunt was capped up until 2015 then they let it become uncapped. To handle over crowding they should cap every unit and give out same amount of non res tags imo. First come first serve basis.


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I don't see a problem with that. It would make sense so a specific area doesn't become over harvested. The area I hunt saw a 258% increase in hunters for archery elk. It rough country though, so most of the hunters end up in some areas and most of the elk end up in other areas.

Should they cap resident tags in a unit or area then to follow the same logic? I see lots of non-local Idaho residents in the area I hunt.

 

[Idahohillboy]

I don't see a problem with that. It would make sense so a specific area doesn't become over harvested. The area I hunt saw a 258% increase in hunters for archery elk. It rough country though, so most of the hunters end up in some areas and most of the elk end up in other areas.

Should they cap resident tags in a unit or area then to follow the same logic? I see lots of non-local Idaho residents in the area I hunt.

I think so I think they should probably do something a hard one to do and people that live in the flats would be sol possibly. As well out of state general deer rifle should be reduced to zones and turned unlimited draw which I think would help the deer populations in some units and maybe improve draw odds on trophy units but I am no biologist. I just would like an improvement on the quality of deer and elk hunting for all res/non res. I own a house in Idaho its my home. I live in another state because of better employment. I am currently non res I want opportunity and a quality hunt still. I love the peace of mind hunting gives but have people everywhere makes it super frusterating. The last 5 years Idaho has blown up they never used to sell out all general non res deer tags. Last year was the first year double tag residents or not it never sold out.

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[ndbuck09]

Bottom Line is: if the non-resident tags sold out this year, the demand outpaced supply. Its pretty simple what should happen. They should raise the non-resident tag fees. It costs pretty much $1000 to hunt elk Non Resident in Montana these days...

 

[Swede]

Not sure who you are talking to, but reread the original post if you're confused. I just saw something I hadn't seen before and wondered if something changed in Oregon and Washington.


- Jesse

I was not targeting any of your posts, but you sure show your bias by pointing out that I was not keyed in to your original post and you have never said anything about the posts calling for more tag limits for OOS hunters or increased fees for nonresidents. The OOS hunter is a frequent scapegoat when we want to blame someone or something for our inability to get a deer or elk. When can we move on to blaming the game department, or the politicians, or wolves?

 

[Glendon Mullins]

Just sat and read through this entire thread, because i feel it's my duty as a moderator, and I would like to charge half the posters on this thread an extra tax to get the 15 minutes I wasted of my life back. Kindly send cash, check, money order or food stamps. PM for my address!! thanks!

But anyways on to my next point, please watch the language, this was just posted about not long ago to keep it family friendly on the forum guys

 

[FlyGuy]

So, a week or so ago Idaho wasn't even on my radar for a 2018 OTC fall back option. That is, until this thread that's been popping up all week. My decision to take a closer look at ID is not to be spiteful in any way. I can understand the frustration the OP feels. But, before this thread started I had no idea of all the opportunity, the amount of public land and reasonably priced OOS tags ID had to offer, so yeah now it is definitely on my list.

With all the attention this thread is bringing to OOS OTC in ID, I'm sure there are only about 5k other OOS guys like me that are now thinking the same thing.

Just sayin'...

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[wannakillabigbull]

The last two posts finally made following this thread worth it lol

 

[GregB]

I think IDFG is already thinking about changing how they manage the deer tags in the state. Earlier this year I got a survey from them asking questions like would you rather be able to hunt for a 2 point buck every year or a 4 point every 2-3 years. The entire survey was asking questions along those lines. And last year they were looking at implementing a preference point system. I saw plenty of people from all states trolling the roads this year. I don't see road hunters as any competition for game just a minor pain when trying to get from point a to b. As soon as me and my son started walking the other hunters disappeared. Out of all the guys on the road I saw one with an animal (loaded up whole on the back of an ATV). This thread has been great for keeping me entertained at work.
The only real solution is to build a wall. Then we can keep our animals in and out of state people out.

 

[David Gough]

So, a week or so ago Idaho wasn't even on my radar for a 2018 OTC fall back option. That is, until this thread that's been popping up all week. My decision to take a closer look at ID is not to be spiteful in any way. I can understand the frustration the OP feels. But, before this thread started I had no idea of all the opportunity, the amount of public land and reasonably priced OOS tags ID had to offer, so yeah now it is definitely on my list.

With all the attention this thread is bringing to OOS OTC in ID, I'm sure there are only about 5k other OOS guys like me that are now thinking the same thing.

Just sayin'...

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Talk about backfiring....as another NR hunter, welcome to Idaho.

 

[David Gough]

I think IDFG is already thinking about changing how they manage the deer tags in the state. Earlier this year I got a survey from them asking questions like would you rather be able to hunt for a 2 point buck every year or a 4 point every 2-3 years. The entire survey was asking questions along those lines. And last year they were looking at implementing a preference point system. I saw plenty of people from all states trolling the roads this year. I don't see road hunters as any competition for game just a minor pain when trying to get from point a to b. As soon as me and my son started walking the other hunters disappeared. Out of all the guys on the road I saw one with an animal (loaded up whole on the back of an ATV). This thread has been great for keeping me entertained at work.
The only real solution is to build a wall. Then we can keep our animals in and out of state people out.

Hahaha!

 

[bigdesert10]

I've read some interesting ideas lately on reducing pressure in general tag units that I think merit some discussion. One, in particular, involves the addition of OTC tags in controlled units (outside the controlled hunt season, of course), but with tight restrictions on weapons and OHV use.

It seems to me that the issue is two-fold: 1) Crowded trail heads, campgrounds and canyons, and 2) Heavy pressure on the game animals. The above would alleviate the crowding issue by spreading the hunters across more units, and would likely have a marginal impact on the health of herds in those units, due to the reduced efficacy of the hunting equipment.

Trad-archery only mule deer tag in a trophy unit, anyone?

 

[kicker338]

Looks like this yr. was the first time in several yrs, that Idaho has sold out on non resident tags. But and a big BUT, I can't wait till the harvest results are in. If what a warden told me a wk. ago turns out to be true there might be a lot of non resident tags not sold next yr. In a nut shell he said the season stunk. Said he checked a ton of resident and non's camps this yr. and the majority by far had zero elk harvested. Looks like the wolves had an exultant harvest last winter.

 

[bigdesert10]

^^^This is the same I’ve heard from several reputable sources. I will point out that it isn’t the season that stunk. It is the countless years of resident and non resident overharvest, harsh winters and an abundance of predation. The game is getting hit from every possible angle and aren’t going to sustain if something doesn’t change. I’ve seen it first hand in Idaho for years. At the present rate nobody will be hunting Idaho in the future if changes aren’t made. Let’s stop arguing over tags, opportunity and money and think about sustaining game herds for once.

What kind of steps can we take, in your opinion, to improve the condition of the herds and what does a sustainable herd look like?