A Problem with Guides

[Mike D Texas]

You can’t lump all guides into the same pile.

People are people and it doesn’t matter if they are a slob guide, a slob landowner or a slob public land hunter. Slobs are slobs.

To say guided hunts shouldn’t be allowed on public land that the guide and his hunter pay taxes for (directly or indirectly) is just dumb.


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[Ryan Avery]

Some people are dicks, some are not. I've had way more trouble with the general hunting public than I've had with outfitters.

 

[Calcoyote]

I have never used a guide. Just don't have that kind of money to throw around. I have had a few interactions with them and they have been VERY positive. However, I have heard some horror stories of guides that seem to feel a sense of ownership of public land. All I can say is all licensed guides have a state agency that regulates them and has the authority to suspend and even revoke their license. If I ran across a guide acting in an abusive manner I would PROMPTLY report him. Any threats of bodily harm, or forcing me off of a trail with his livestock would also be reported to the county sheriff.

EDIT TO ADD: I have also heard of several POSITIVE stories where guides have come across hunters in the back country packing out their elk and have offered to pack it to the trailhead free of charge. I have also heard of guides who have happened across hunters that were with sick or injured and packed them out free of charge. While there are some bad guides there are also some really good ones as well.

 

[velvet muley]

Some people are dicks, some are not. I've had way more trouble with the general hunting public than I've had with outfitters.

Agreed with your statement.

That being said, given that the general public out numbers guides at an astronomical number it would be expected that a guy would have more run ins with the public vs guide.

If that number is even close though that should tell us something.

 

[Ryan Avery]

Agreed with your statement.

That being said, given that the general public out numbers guides at an astronomical number it would be expected that a guy would have more run ins with the public vs guide.

If that number is even close though that should tell us something.

Depends on where you're hunting. I run into outfitters a lot more in the wilderness. They have been great. Now, assholes with Llamas not so much. HAHA.

 

[elkguide]

Welcome to the forum @Gaddyman.

 

[Tobe_B]

Depends on where you're hunting. I run into outfitters a lot more in the wilderness. They have been great. Now, assholes with Llamas not so much. HAHA.

Llamas are the real menace. We got in a pretty good wreck that almost turned violent after a dude tied his llamas up in the trail blocking all traffic in a really shitty spot. He refused to move them. Ever turn 14 loaded horses around in the mountains? That takes a lot of space and a lot of time.

 

[Tobe_B]

Are you actually guiding them on their hunts or just my providing the supporting pack stock? I know it’s technically considered guiding to do both in most areas but that’s also probably another distinction I’m not sure the OP made and from what I read is mostly writing about full-guide/outfit where they are providing the meals, lodging (wall tent), horses and then going out 1on1 or 1on2 guide to hunter to call, spot and get the hunter a shot opportunity.

I think just providing the stock and support mitigates some of the territorial and envious feelings guides get towards DIYers as the expectation for a harvest is likely not the same and if a hunter fails to harvest it’s on them, not the guide that just took $5k+ from them.

I’ve worked for outfitters that do both. I don’t do any guiding, never have and never will, I’m not a people person. The outfitter I’ve most currently worked with does drop camps and drop services. He has three “permanent” camps they stay all season and camps set up anywhere in his area for 14 days max. I’d say it’s 75% drop service and about 25% of supplied drop camps.

 

[BluMtn]

Cool story, but it was Ken Wick and Dan Agnew, Ken lost his license over helicopter use.

I seriously doubt wdfg expended any resources towards guiding a hunter or locating a bull for a gov tag holder.


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I didn't say they expended any recourses toward helping a Gov tag. But the game agent that was investigating both of those offenses was ordered to stand down from the investigation.

 

[WRO]

I didn't say they expended any recourses toward helping a Gov tag. But the game agent that was investigating both of those offenses was ordered to stand down from the investigation.

Was it the feds who pressed charges?


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[Choupique]

While there are some bad guides there are also some really good ones as well.

Id say far more good than bad. As in all things, the few bad ruin it for the many good

 

[BluMtn]

Was it the feds who pressed charges?


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There were complaints about Mossback and the fact that Agnew fly in and out the same day as he killed the bull to the local game agent. He started an investigation and was told by superiors to stand down.

The pilot that was flying Wick, if memory serves me right was contacted by the FAA at the request of the game dept. Wick himself was contacted by the local game agent and same as Agnew was told to stand down. The game dept does not want their cash cows messed with for stepping "over the line" when it comes to game laws.

There have been other cases where Gov tag holders have stretched the law and gotten away with it because of who they are. Wicks helicopter ride was by far the largest stretch of game laws.

 

[WRO]

There were complaints about Mossback and the fact that Agnew fly in and out the same day as he killed the bull to the local game agent. He started an investigation and was told by superiors to stand down.

The pilot that was flying Wick, if memory serves me right was contacted by the FAA at the request of the game dept. Wick himself was contacted by the local game agent and same as Agnew was told to stand down. The game dept does not want their cash cows messed with for stepping "over the line" when it comes to game laws.

There have been other cases where Gov tag holders have stretched the law and gotten away with it because of who they are. Wicks helicopter ride was by far the largest stretch of game laws.

Agnew flew into the airport in a private jet which is legal in most states. Flying to scout creates a different set of rules, I don’t know Washington’s but Oregons were you couldn’t hunt until the next day.

 

[BluMtn]

Washington is the same. You can not hunt the same day as you fly.

 

[jfandel3]

There are good guides and bad guides, same as any industry. For anyone using those services, try to vet them really well. It's like if someone calls themselves a babysitter, you're not going to automatically trust them with your child. You need to have a phone call, or multiple, and talk to references and be able to feel comfortable ahead of time. Fortunately there are pretty good reviews available on websites like Outfitter Intel to know what you're getting into with these outfitters.

 

[2ski]

Oh look another FNG thats on Rokslide just to complain about guides. His only 5 posts are on this thread. Weird.....

There are a holes on Rokslide but that doesn’t mean everyone here is one. You see an issue you report it to the mods and move on.

And again to the OP, someone suggested that if we gove up after one reporting of someone then nothing becomes of it. Then you came back and said yeah but you reported it once and nothing happened. You see where I'm going?

 

[Divide93]

Sheesh, reading all these comments makes me glad I was fortunate enough to have reached packer/guide status many years ago when I was young. Way less people and way less BS to deal with!