Stone sheep beware

[Fullcry]

Sounds like a cluster F. Is this unique to BC? As I understand in the NWT, those concessions are held directly by the outfitters (Gana River, Arctic Red, Ravens Throat, MMO, etc.)

The list you just gave is incorrect.
As a example Arctic Red is actually owned by
SFW if I remember correctly.
I’m not judging anything just giving an example.
No disrespect

 

[VTHunter08]

I really have held back. I was going to post my stories from ‘22.
I’m honestly surprised that no one has mentioned them yet. There has to be no less than a hundred people who know who I’m talking about and dozens of disgruntled hunters from the last couple of years.
Another hunter paid for a 1x1 hunt and was forced to do a 3x1. He also had to pay to come back and paid half of the asking price just to come back. He’s even more upset than me.
Again, I don’t know the laws on slander. I’ll bet my life on everything I’ve disclosed. I am happy to share the outfits name for those seriously interested in a stone hunt.

Well this is deflating! I was the winning bidder on last month's DSC convention auction for a mtn goat hunt with Tuchodi this Fall. Tried doing some research on the new outfit before placing the bid, but couldn't seem to find much info (so relied on past reviews and the general success in the region).

Does anyone have any intel on goat success with Tuchodi in recent years? (I'm a newbie to Rokslide, so let me know if I need to post this as a separate thread. Just figured I'd start here since it seemed like there are a couple here w/ recent experience.)

 

[buzzy]

I can understand not naming the outfitter if you’re trying to get some money back or take legal action against him. But if that’s not the case, then let the folks know who the outfitter is so we can stay away from them. Let them try to sue you from Canada. At least in that event you have an opportunity to counter sue for breach of contract.

 

[SagehunterD]

Well this is deflating! I was the winning bidder on last month's DSC convention auction for a mtn goat hunt with Tuchodi this Fall. Tried doing some research on the new outfit before placing the bid, but couldn't seem to find much info (so relied on past reviews and the general success in the region).

Does anyone have any intel on goat success with Tuchodi in recent years? (I'm a newbie to Rokslide, so let me know if I need to post this as a separate thread. Just figured I'd start here since it seemed like there are a couple here w/ recent experience.)

Well this is deflating! I was the winning bidder on last month's DSC convention auction for a mtn goat hunt with Tuchodi this Fall. Tried doing some research on the new outfit before placing the bid, but couldn't seem to find much info (so relied on past reviews and the general success in the region).

Does anyone have any intel on goat success with Tuchodi in recent years? (I'm a newbie to Rokslide, so let me know if I need to post this as a separate thread. Just figured I'd start here since it seemed like there are a couple here w/ recent experience.)

Message me.

 

[CRJR45]

Something about this whole thread seems wrong to me ? The Op makes this post complaining about the guide he used , but wants to give out recommendations on who to use in the future ?
When I PM'ed him , he was trying to recommend who I should use , almost forcefully .
Seems fishy to me . Anyone else get that feeling ?

 

[SagehunterD]

Something about this whole thread seems wrong to me ? The Op makes this post complaining about the guide he used , but wants to give out recommendations on who to use in the future ?
When I PM'ed him , he was trying to recommend who I should use , almost forcefully .
Seems fishy to me . Anyone else get that feeling ?

The only thing fishy is someone (you) who reaches out to me telling me they are considering booking a stone hunt and want to know who to watch out for. And then screenshot my post (no class).

People like you are the reason regular guys avoid forums. The point of my post was to raise awareness on stone sheep as a whole. There are dozens of outfits that have been bought out in the last few years by big money guys who have not added any value to hunts but have raised prices and lowered the quality of the experience.

I was only offering suggestions because I truly feel like there are only a handful of solid outfits offering stone hunts, and you mentioned you were looking for a hunt. I gain nothing by giving you suggestions other than helping a fellow hunter.

 

[VTHunter08]

Message me.

I just joined RS today...Apparently I have to wait 7 days before I'm able to DM (but will message you as soon as I'm able).

 

[wildwilderness]

BC stone hunts as a business proposition is bad for hunters. As a business they have a finite resource- the government issues a Quota of how many sheep they can kill in 5 years, and max how many in any one year.

So there are two ways to make money off that quota- charge as much as possible for the hunt, or book "extra" hunts with the plan that no sheep are shot.

With the technology and ability to scout, airplanes, helicopters, cameras etc, any given outfit should know about how many legal rams are in their concession and approximately where they are.....

So the easy way to make more money as a business is Hire a cheap new guide, never scout the area, book a newb hunter for 50K, send them off to an area without sheep and imply to the guide they better not shoot a ram!

 

[MattBC]

Well this is deflating! I was the winning bidder on last month's DSC convention auction for a mtn goat hunt with Tuchodi this Fall. Tried doing some research on the new outfit before placing the bid, but couldn't seem to find much info (so relied on past reviews and the general success in the region).

Does anyone have any intel on goat success with Tuchodi in recent years? (I'm a newbie to Rokslide, so let me know if I need to post this as a separate thread. Just figured I'd start here since it seemed like there are a couple here w/ recent experience.)

A goat hunt should be fairly easy in their area. It's not the greatest location for big goats as its drier country but there is goats all throughout.

 

[CRJR45]

The only thing fishy is someone (you) who reaches out to me telling me they are considering booking a stone hunt and want to know who to watch out for. And then screenshot my post (no class).

People like you are the reason regular guys avoid forums. The point of my post was to raise awareness on stone sheep as a whole. There are dozens of outfits that have been bought out in the last few years by big money guys who have not added any value to hunts but have raised prices and lowered the quality of the experience.

I was only offering suggestions because I truly feel like there are only a handful of solid outfits offering stone hunts, and you mentioned you were looking for a hunt. I gain nothing by giving you suggestions other than helping a fellow hunter.

Unless you have an affiliation with the guide you seem so set on recommending ? You went on two bad hunts but want to raise awareness on sheep hunts in general ?
As if now you're an expert ? I'm not buying it , sorry .

 

[wildwilderness]

BC stone hunts as a business proposition is bad for hunters. As a business they have a finite resource- the government issues a Quota of how many sheep they can kill in 5 years, and max how many in any one year.

So there are two ways to make money off that quota- charge as much as possible for the hunt, or book "extra" hunts with the plan that no sheep are shot.

With the technology and ability to scout, airplanes, helicopters, cameras etc, any given outfit should know about how many legal rams are in their concession and approximately where they are.....

So the easy way to make more money as a business is Hire a cheap new guide, never scout the area, book a newb hunter for 50K, send them off to an area without sheep and imply to the guide they better not shoot a ram!

So here are some things you can do in BC-

Ask where they are in the quota- for example a 5 year year quota of 20 sheep would come out to 4 tags per year. In any given year they cannot tag more than 6 sheep (50% over is max), and would have to shoot less in another year.

So if an outfit is in year 5 and they have already killed 17 sheep then only 3 hunters can legally tag a ram... If you are the 5th hunter that year on a later hunt things don't look good! Most outfits run about 50% success (its way more profitable!) and will book more hunters than available quota tags...

You want to be in a position with plenty of quota tags available, and in a known area and pre scouted sheep. Pretty basic stuff. If possible I would go a step further and BUY the quota tag from the out fit and tell them that ram is yours! you can negotiate a second hunt, or even another season since the quota can carry over.

For the business, it can be bad if the quota gets reduced- it happens. Say the 20 sheep quota got dropped to 15 for the next cycle. That's technically lost revenue the investor was counting on- unless they continue to book the same number of hunters! then revenue stays the same, just a drop in success rate- on purpose!

 

[svivian]

The only thing fishy is someone (you) who reaches out to me telling me they are considering booking a stone hunt and want to know who to watch out for. And then screenshot my post (no class).

People like you are the reason regular guys avoid forums. The point of my post was to raise awareness on stone sheep as a whole. There are dozens of outfits that have been bought out in the last few years by big money guys who have not added any value to hunts but have raised prices and lowered the quality of the experience.

I was only offering suggestions because I truly feel like there are only a handful of solid outfits offering stone hunts, and you mentioned you were looking for a hunt. I gain nothing by giving you suggestions other than helping a fellow hunter.

I'm sorry but based on your original post I wouldn't be taking any advice on who to book for a hunt.... This whole thread would have been much more productive if you would have just stated the operation to begin with instead of playing these games.

 

[MattB]

I’m honestly surprised that no one has mentioned them yet.

We're honestly surprised you have not mentioned them yet. This thread is pointless without divulging the name of the outfitter.

 

[IBen]

With the technology and ability to scout, airplanes, helicopters, cameras etc, any given outfit should know about how many legal rams are in their concession and approximately where they are.....

You really don’t have a clue. Maybe if the price was 250k and every guide, packer etc was a full time employee year round. Zero business sense

 

[YKN]

So here are some things you can do in BC-

Ask where they are in the quota- for example a 5 year year quota of 20 sheep would come out to 4 tags per year. In any given year they cannot tag more than 6 sheep (50% over is max), and would have to shoot less in another year.

So if an outfit is in year 5 and they have already killed 17 sheep then only 3 hunters can legally tag a ram... If you are the 5th hunter that year on a later hunt things don't look good! Most outfits run about 50% success (its way more profitable!) and will book more hunters than available quota tags...

You want to be in a position with plenty of quota tags available, and in a known area and pre scouted sheep. Pretty basic stuff. If possible I would go a step further and BUY the quota tag from the out fit and tell them that ram is yours! you can negotiate a second hunt, or even another season since the quota can carry over.

For the business, it can be bad if the quota gets reduced- it happens. Say the 20 sheep quota got dropped to 15 for the next cycle. That's technically lost revenue the investor was counting on- unless they continue to book the same number of hunters! then revenue stays the same, just a drop in success rate- on purpose!

Judging by this post, you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[wildwilderness]

You really don’t have a clue. Maybe if the price was 250k and every guide, packer etc was a full time employee year round. Zero business sense

That's exactly my point- Business doesn't favor the hunter.

There are countless excuses an outfit can give to an unsuccessful hunter. I know it doesn't cost $250k to fly a Super Cub over a concession or have the guides show up a week early and scout.

But it will happen every year, a sheep hunter shows up and a green guide who has never been in the area takes them out to an area that has never been scouted for whatever excuse you want to fill in .....

Don't be that hunter!

 

[YKN]

That's exactly my point- Business doesn't favor the hunter.

There are countless excuses an outfit can give to an unsuccessful hunter. I know it doesn't cost $250k to fly a Super Cub over a concession or have the guides show up a week early and scout.

But it will happen every year, a sheep hunter shows up and a green guide who has never been in the area takes them out to an area that has never been scouted for whatever excuse you want to fill in .....

Don't be that hunter!

Outfitters that do this kind of crap don't stay in business for long.

 

[wildwilderness]

Judging by this post, you have no idea what you are talking about.

then please tell me how it works? How does BC set the sheep quota for outfitters?

 

[YKN]

None of the big sheep outfits in BC are allowed to harvest 50% over their yearly quota. Pretty much all of the big sheep outfits are well over 50% success. You are talking out of your A$$. There may be a bad operator here and there but the vast majority are honest, family run businesses.

 

[SagehunterD]

I just joined RS today...Apparently I have to wait 7 days before I'm able to DM (but will message you as soon as I'm able).

Good to know. Please reach out. I would but I don’t know how on here.