@ Slick,
Yes, I have a lot to add to this conversation.
As mentioned before in this thread, the Terminus is not intended to be waterproof, nor do we advertise or suggest that it be used without a rain cover. The fabric choice was not based on building a waterproof pack, it was based off wear resistance in comparison to weight. Our customer base is very technically educated, so seeing that Ultra is laminate, the next question is if the fabric is waterproof. Ultra fabric is waterproof as tested per ASTM testing.
Also as mentioned, the seams are not seam taped. Why? Because technology and seam tape options are not available to seam tape these fabrics with these seams. There are some tapes that can be used on a standard flat seam that are not heavy load bearing, but not complex seam construction under stress. This was not a choice, it came down to there is no option that is durable enough to use in load carrying backpack. There are many technical specs about the seams that are unique to tape over, like taping multiple layers of webbing, matching multiple fabrics with one seam tape, and tight radiuses that cause tape bunch and delaminate. This is simply a technology that has not been developed for this type of construction. There are several options that could work on a lighter duty piece of gear with simple top stitch seams, but nothing that I would trust to sell to our customers with expectation it will be waterproof and remain waterproof for the life of the pack. You can add a sealant from the outside, however it is not as durable, on the exterior face, very susceptible to wear, will eventually leak, and will likely need to be applied several times over the life of the pack. Ultimately the best option when dealing with rain is the same as when we released the pack, use a 3.5 oz rain cover and solve the issue.
There are questions if the Internal Load Cell fabric is waterproof. The fabric is a 250 denier coated fabric, per ASTM waterproof testing and achieves a rating of 150 psi/ 10.3 bar. Many of us are very familiar with mmH20 measurement in in regards to raingear specs. Most upper level raingear specs will hover in the 25,000 – 35,000 mmH2O rating. If we convert 150 psi to mmH2O, we get a rating of 105,400 mmH2O, 3 to 4 times that of quality raingear. So yes, by all quantified industry standards, the internal load cell is waterproof and performs at the upper level of waterproof fabrics.
In regards to AKTroutbum comment of not using a waterproof fabric on the load cell being “bullshit”, you should be happy to know the fabric is rated as waterproof per ASTM standards, I would be happy to forward along further technical information if needed. In regard to blood being on the gear inside the pack, I would welcome a conversation to discuss details on the situation. Without knowing all circumstances, I cannot assume to know what was going on.
Once again, we are having the same discussion of seam tape sealing seams of the load cell. The load cell is sewn to the frame, the load cell is also made from one continuous piece of fabric so the only seam is directly to the frame. I took every precaution possible to reduce any leakage including drain holes. However, without a proven and available seam sealing process/technology, no seam on the Terminus can be 100% waterproof. This is no different from our other packs, there are seams on the Xpac back panel of all packs, these are not waterproof.
@ Slick – I understand that sometimes comments are made without adequate information, however I prefer comments/opinions that are based on factual information. Some factual information about my design and testing process of the Terminus that may help. I did all the design work, patterning, fabric testing, sewing prototypes, and a majority of the infield testing of the Terminus until I was at the final design, then got prototypes to others for testing. This process took just over 2 years, I have almost as much time into the Terminus as I did my first pack 10 years ago. This time was not only in the design room and behind the sewing machine, but also an enormous amount sweat equity carrying the pack under load. So in reference to your comment about “using SG customers as guinea pig”, this is not correct and far from accurately describes the design process for the Terminus, or any of our other products for that matter. It is disappointing to hear someone jump to that conclusion, I am not sure what would lead you to believe that, but I hope this background helps.
@thinhorn_AK – Again, there is not an acceptable seam sealing process per fabric manufacturers, therefore it was not a decision of whether to add seam sealing or save weight. What would be “bullshit” (as you stated) in my opinion is it to use a sub-par seam sealing process that is not designed to hold up to abuse hunters will put it through, then sell it to customers with an expectation it will perform. This is not to say I will not continue to look for and develop a sealing process, however it will need to be adequately tested before I will trust it for our customers.
I hope this helps for those who have questions. I understand that sometimes it is easy to make assumptions based of design, however sometimes the true design features and path to the design are quite complex and not as simple as face value might suggest. I am always available to discuss these points, so please feel free to reach out if I can help.
Best
Kurt
Kurt@StoneGlacier.com
