Starting point question

[MeatBuck]

To clear up any further confusion, in my mind, seating the bullet out past saami specs meant more available case capacity, equaling more powder.

If that's not the case then a simple, "that's not the way it works" will do.
If that's not the way it works, what's the point of loading past saami specs?
What am I missing here?
Also a few of you guys could stand to reread my posts. Questions being asked that have already been answered. Statements being made that need not be.

 

[Jc2020]

Just got into the whole reloading thing because, well, California.
Anyways I'm working on a couple loads for .270wsm and have a question.
I'm a cheapass and don't want to be shooting hundreds of rounds and buying multiple barrels for this hunting build.
Knowing that I'm already loading longer that saami specs and longer than the reloading books (I've seen) have published. 2.75?-2.78? I'm at 3.080 mag and 3.115 to lands. Seems like using the recommended minimum powder charge as a starting point be a waste of bbl life and components.
Should I be starting at the max end of the recommendation chart or what?

I always start at the max and work my way down from there I do 5 shot groups my self and see if I like it if not I drop down

 

[MeatBuck]

I found the same load recommendation differences as low sky and noted the test bbl length and twist rate differed. This is part of the reason I'm here asking for advice.

 

[ericwh]

To clear up any further confusion, in my mind, seating the bullet out past saami specs meant more available case capacity, equaling more powder.

If that's not the case then a simple, "that's not the way it works" will do.
If that's not the way it works, what's the point of loading past saami specs?
What am I missing here?
Also a few of you guys could stand to reread my posts. Questions being asked that have already been answered. Statements being made that need not be.

Yeah. seating out past saami specs gives you more capacity and I might end up exceeding the book max if I'm over length.. But w/o quickload, and plus any other changing variables, it's hard to know where you're going to end up, so I still work up from something low.

And even if you don't end up using the extra capacity, the other point of loading long is tuning the jump.

 

[tdot]

You've come on here asking for advice and you are getting a bunch of good info. Instead of telling others to reread your posts, I would suggest your re-read some of their posts and try to learn from them.

The questions that you just asked again were previously answered.

If you have only watched Precision Panhandle's youtube videos I would suggest that you watch other videos and read as much as you possibly can from other sources. I haven't watched or read a single source that truly touches on all points of reloading and internal ballistic theories.

As previously stated, how you have sorted your brass is not ideal, and can lead to dangerous over pressure situations. Shoulder length is almost meaningless between different sources of brass. Internal volume is more important. Even different lots of brass from the same manufacturer can be different volume, different wall thickness, even different metal composition and hardness that handles pressure differently.

How have you measured where your lands are?

Starting with loads at mag length and then approaching the lands is dangerous. Don't do that.

Pressure = velocity. The volume and powder chosen are only one part of that equation. Primer, case capacity, neck tension, bullet jump, chamber dimensions and internal barrel dimensions among other variables all go into creating pressure. That is why no one can simply tell you what will work, or what wont work.

Barrel length relates to speed. Not chamber pressure.

Barrel twist seems to have a minor effect on chamber pressure and velocity. I have seen opposing arguments on this one. But it relates more to stability.

The problem (and fun) with reloading is that there are so many variables that interrelate. Some are measurable and some are not (atleast not with commonly available equipment). That is why we all test and work up loads.

 

[MeatBuck]

I get that there's differences in cases between manufacturers. That's y they are separated by brand (didn't say that before) and size. I'm not mixing fed win nosler and rem/peters. I'm going to work up loads with the brass that I have the most of which is, nosler once fired 50 pc going to get 50 hammers. That's a test batch.
120pc of once fired win that was separated by size so however many of those fall into a .001 shoulder length and neck thickness category(about 60pc) will get that number of Bergers. That's a batch.
Anything outside those specs and the 40-60 fed and rem will probably stay in a marked box for further testing down the road. As in with all new components sometime way down the road.

I only have 40 pc (out of 50) new win brass that weren't too dicked up to load. And since I had only planned to hunt with this gun after load development and since 40pc is two boxes, that's one box of each bullet. Seems like It would be plenty.
Didn't ever plan to use the once fired but since the once fireds from the old bbl were very close if not the same dementions as the once fireds from new bbl I figured I'd just shoot them as well but in separate batches than the 40pc of new.
And if two or three firings is what it takes to get full case stretch then it should be no big deal to run the once fired from old bbl in new. With or without .002 bump. Since .002 bump doesn't even come close to how small the unfired cases are. Could go either way with bumping once fireds. Depends on who you ask. But ultimately it depends on whether or not the once fired will chamber easily in the new gun.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Also I've had multiple cases threaded for my oal guage so I have or will have soon, a once fired case to build each of the different (case dementions) batches with.
Yes buying a big batch of fresh brass would solve these issues however, as previously stated, I'm a cheap ass. (And with that comes these type of issues.)

 

[Low_Sky]

You'll come out time and money ahead to sell all that once fired and let it be someone else's problem. Then buy new quality brass. Even if you end up with fewer pieces, if you end up with a larger batch of consistent cases you'll be one step ahead. Trying to work with small batches of different headstamped brass is going to be an exercise in frustration. Your data from one batch may or may not translate to the next. One of the fundamentals of precision reloading is consistency, trying to remove or equalize all variables. You have total control over the brass you use, and you're choosing to shoot yourself in the foot.

If you're dead set on using the mixed bag o' brass, I think you need to rethink your sorting strategy. If you're not set up to measure case volume by water capacity, weight sorting is your next best bet. You should be sorting by headstamp to account for alloy differences between manufacturers (you've done this). Then full length size to the same external dimensions. Then trim to the same length. Then sort by weight. Uniforming the cases externally and sorting by weight pushes all the variation in brass thickness to the inside of the case, which can be used as an analog for volume. With externally identical cases, a heavier case can be assumed to have lower case volume than a lighter case.

 

[MeatBuck]

No I didn't just watch a video and think I know everything or even enough to jump in feet first. That's y I'm here asking questions that were not clear to me from my reaearch.
Over the past year I've been slowly building buying and researching... not only reloading but specifically reloading with the components and equipment that I have.
I get it, stupid questions trigger dickheaded responses from guys who believe the question was stupid to begin with. But stupid questions can bring on a wealth of knowledge and that is why I will continue to ask the same questions (stupid or not) until I get an answer (or multiple answers) that satisfies me.

Also I come from pirate4x4.com where every request for help gets a dozen asshole relplies or more before even a slight hint of help is given, if any all. In short I have pretty thick skin and don't mind disregarding "triggered" replies.

Lastly more help has been given on this subject by a person who didn't even bother to reply here because of the dickshow that was sure to follow the questions I asked.

 

[bsnedeker]

No I didn't just watch a video and think I know everything or even enough to jump in feet first. That's y I'm here asking questions that were not clear to me from my reaearch.
Over the past year I've been slowly building buying and researching... not only reloading but specifically reloading with the components and equipment that I have.
I get it, stupid questions trigger dickheaded responses from guys who believe the question was stupid to begin with. But stupid questions can bring on a wealth of knowledge and that is why I will continue to ask the same questions (stupid or not) until I get an answer (or multiple answers) that satisfies me.

Also I come from pirate4x4.com where every request for help gets a dozen asshole relplies or more before even a slight hint of help is given, if any all. In short I have pretty thick skin and don't mind disregarding "triggered" replies.

Lastly more help has been given on this subject by a person who didn't even bother to reply here because of the dickshow that was sure to follow the questions I asked.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't see people on here being too terribly harsh to you on this one. If people are being harsh I'd hope you could understand it's coming from a place of serious concern. The direction you were initially thinking of going is a dangerous one, both for you and for anyone else who potentially reads this thread in the future so people are very adamant that you not go that route for your own safety as well as the safety of others.

I'm glad someone has reached out to you directly to offer guidance. I'm not experienced enough to be that kind of resource for anyone, but I do believe I have a pretty good idea of how to proceed as safely as possible in the reloading world. Good luck to you!

 

[MeatBuck]

You'll come out time and money ahead to sell all that once fired and let it be someone else's problem. Then buy new quality brass. Even if you end up with fewer pieces, if you end up with a larger batch of consistent cases you'll be one step ahead. Trying to work with small batches of different headstamped brass is going to be an exercise in frustration. Your data from one batch may or may not translate to the next. One of the fundamentals of precision reloading is consistency, trying to remove or equalize all variables. You have total control over the brass you use, and you're choosing to shoot yourself in the foot.

If you're dead set on using the mixed bag o' brass, I think you need to rethink your sorting strategy. If you're not set up to measure case volume by water capacity, weight sorting is your next best bet. You should be sorting by headstamp to account for alloy differences between manufacturers (you've done this). Then full length size to the same external dimensions. Then trim to the same length. Then sort by weight. Uniforming the cases externally and sorting by weight pushes all the variation in brass thickness to the inside of the case, which can be used as an analog for volume. With externally identical cases, a heavier case can be assumed to have lower case volume than a lighter case.

I've fl sized and trimmed and sorted by shoulder length using bump guage the once fired win and nosler separately.
Should I be sorting by using all dementions; web dia, shoulder dia, shoulder length, neck od, and oal? After resizing?
Even then, like I say, I'm going to use small lots of the brass I already have to develop separate loads. So the 50pcs of nosler will be tested with the hammers only. The 60ish pcs of win brass that bump sized the same will be for the Bergers. If I try a third bullet it will go in the federals or a batch of the wins that were likely from the same box which is why they were sized the same.
It's my belief and correct me if I'm wrong but the pieces of brass that grew the same after firing were likely from the same box I bought off the shelf. The ones that were much larger or smaller were just from a different box that was purchased at a different time and sorted as such.
I've measured the neck thickness of the factory loaded rounds from those pieces of brass as well as the dummy rounds my gs made with the brass I planned to use. I think I e got my brass as sorted as possible without weighing or checking case volume (as you would powder density.)

Simply is my next step to weigh the brass I've sized trimmed and sorted?
Or do I need to further measure and separate using all dementional measurements?

One issue I'm running into are guys simply do things differently, so the info one gives, tho it may be correct, can differ from what the next guy says or does.
I guess I'm as much trying to nail down a system that works for me as I am trying to nail down the correct info to base my system on.

 

[MeatBuck]

This is what I needed to hear on reply #1...

The direction you were initially thinking of going is a dangerous one...

 

[Jc2020]

I would also recommend loading your test rounds all with the same brand of brass Also I prefer nosler brass my self and I have tried mixed head stamped brass and results did very some this was more for plinking rounds though

 

[Low_Sky]

I've fl sized and trimmed and sorted by shoulder length using bump guage the once fired win and nosler separately.

If your once-fired has been cleaned, headstamp sorted, decapped, full length sized and trimmed, you're almost there. Weight sort your headstamp batches and toss any that are +/- 1% of average weight, or whatever's acceptable to you.

 

[MeatBuck]

I already primed the 50pcs of nosler, they're ready for powder and bullet.

I can sort the 6 boxes of win by weight now tho.

I decapped, cleaned, measured, deburred flash holes, fl sized and set neck tension based on loaded dummy round of same win brass, measured, trimmed, deburred and chamfered case necks with vld tool, remeasured and boxed them back up by shoulder length.

 

[Jardo]

Don’t mix brass. Pressure can be dramatically different between manufactures and a mistake in identifying brass could lead to high pressures and danger for you and anyone close to your gun when you pull the trigger.

You have asked and multiple friendly responses have told you this is not smart. Don’t ask for advice if your not open to the advice.

Look bro, I’m not trying to be a dick. Some of the ideas you have put on this thread are dangerous. I would suggest you ask around your local shooting club for a mentor who can spend time teaching you how to reload safely. Also buy several manuals and read them. Reloading is making your own hopefully controlled explosions and requires more training than research on an Internet forum.


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[ckleeves]

Did I read it right that you have 10 rounds down the barrel?


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[MeatBuck]

Yes. Ten rounds fired from a box of federal copper 130g. (Cleaned bbl of copper fouling after.)
I had 3 of those already fired in the factory bbl. and 7 unfired. I measured the unfired and wrote down measurements. Then I measured the once fired from old bbl and did the same with the once fired from new bbl.
The once fireds were near identical between the two bbls.

 

[MeatBuck]

 

[Montana Slim]

You have gotten some good advice on this thread, and in a very cordial manner... your tone comes across as something other than that. Guys are trying to help you out.

I like to reload, but am by no means the G.O.A.T. What are you trying to accomplish with the rifle? What does the longer than spec length cartridge really get you? I get it if it is just what you want to do - have at it - just don't get mad at people warning you if the dangers of some of the things you've said.
For a hunting rifle, why not find the accuracy/velocity nodes with some 'standard' loads and learn about reloading the slow and steady, old-fashioned way? It seems like you want someone to give you a recipe for .05moa, 3700fps loads for your particular rifle without putting much wear on a new barrel. I get it, but it just doesn't work that way.

 

[MeatBuck]

Wish there was a thumbs down button