Starting Gun Dogs vs. The Demands of Family Life

[Maverick1]

Unpopular opinion: forget about the dog.

Most other hobbies you can pick up and put down as your family and work dictate. With a dog, that is not the case. Dogs require daily, non-negotiable care - walks, feeding, training, attention. You can't 'pause' a dog the way you can pause other hobbies. And, a dog will be dead in ten years.

When your kids are grown and out of the house, you won't look back and say "Gee, I wish I would have spent more time with the dog."

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"A dog is a 10–15 year commitment that restricts your freedom, adds daily obligations, and doesn’t provide the long-term emotional payoff that time with your kids does. For people who value flexibility and family-first time allocation, skipping the dog is the rational choice."

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[el_jefe_pescado]

Using the crate is as a tool is invaluable. Time outside of it is structured and supervised with slowly increasing roam range. Baby gates are wonderful. There's zero need for the puppy to have free roam of any part of the house beyond the single room you are in, and in the crate the rest of the time.

What we gained with our started dog was knowing it can find birds and is gun broke. What we do not have a is a dog with recall to a name (just tone on a collar), and having to undue some bathroom habits. Manners have come a long fine and so has obedience.

For you, I'd get a puppy so it can understand the structure of your household from the beginning, and I'd submit the dog would be better off in the long run being around your youngest child. Random chaos is good for bird dogs.

If you need help with PP breeders, let me know. There's a phenomenal litter on the ground right now with two VC but gentle parents.

Thanks for this.

I have been in touch with Bob Farris for about a year and in an ideal world I would end up with a dog out of his Cedarwoods kennel. Always open to additional suggestions.

 

[wildwilderness]

We got our first dog when the kids were 2/5/8 and they loved it. Purposely went with a family friendly chocolate lab that had parents that hunted. It was my first dog ever and I trained it to retrieve ok- nothing fancy, etc but better than nothing and was a good companion and my older son loved going out with the dog. I knew going into it first and foremost it would be a family dog, and obedience training was the most important.

I would say at this busy part of your life do not add on unrealistic demands to train a perfect trials level dog! way too much energy, money and time commitment that other areas will have to sacrifice.

Now if your family and kids (especially wife) really want a dog now (and there are many studies that support better emotional development in kids with a pet dog) The compromise is a good family dog that can "hunt" with you and not be so worked up on how "finished" or "competitive" the dog is.

 

[MTBackroads]

Bird dogs are family dogs if you let them be family dogs.

My daughters relentlessly spoil my shorthairs, I can't imagine it any other way.

 

[JD Jones]

My first real gun dog: I was married w my son being 7 years old. Full time job. Lived in the city. White picket fence shit. Bottom line- it was a strain. I was dead set on making a fine gun dog and a semi decent family pet. Had lots of "rules" about the dog and honestly it was a strain. Family didn't want a gun dog they wanted a pet. I wanted a Ferrari of a dog that could make do as a pet. Ended up with a bad ass hunting companion but an un happy wife with all the added travel and time requirements to see to it he performed. Talking traveling to hunt tests and all that. Ended up selling him because he sucked as a pet and at the time. I didn't regret it because I was ruining my marriage. Kid didn't care but also didn't enjoy him like I did in the field.

Fast fwd: next dog I got was started and also was a little more soft demeanor. Got my English setter and she is the best balance. Great pet but turns it on come fall. She's naturally got it and requires very little to get ready for the hunting season. I'm also older. And not hung up on titles and "proving" anything. Just like having a good companion who happens to also hunt.

For me. If I was to do it all over from scratch. I'd pick up that started dog. Bond with it. Not take life so seriously with having the best dog in the field and just enjoy things organically. I'd still make it a point to work the dog and give it exposure and opportunity but taking it to the extreme- never again

 

[VomSteinbruch]

I don't think being a good house pet necessarily means being a mediocre hunting dog, or vice versa. I've known dozens of exceptional hunting dogs that were also wonderful companions at home.

That said, I recognize that for many people, having a good family dog is more important than owning a superstar hunting dog. If you live in a small home, have young children, and have limited time, a calm and manageable pet may be a higher priority than maximizing field performance.

In my experience, there are certain breeds that strike a very good balance between being pleasant house dogs and at least solid hunting companions.

Based on the dogs I've owned, including Pointers, GSPs, Irish Setters, a hound mix, a Cocker Spaniel, and Deutsch Langhaars (DL/GLPs), I would say that the Cocker and my DLs have been the best family pets while still being above-average hunting dogs. Next would be the Setters and the GSPs. The Pointer and the hound mix, on the other hand, were absolute hell around the house.

I've also spent a fair amount of time around Griffons, German-import Pudelpointers, Small Münsterländers, and cover dog Setters and Pointers. Most of them were pleasant dogs to live with and performed quite well in the field. Some were truly exceptional.

The GSP/DK and GWP/DD are a bit different, because with those breeds a lot depends on the particular bloodline, breeding program, and kennel. There are many different "types," especially within the GSP world. I've seen superstar GSPs (DKs) and GWPs (DDs) that were also incredibly easy and enjoyable dogs to live with.

One thing I would add, though, is that no matter how calm and docile a dog is in the house, if it has even a moderate amount of drive, it still needs an outlet for that energy. An outstanding hunting dog that also happens to be a great family companion cannot be deprived of exercise and mental stimulation. They all need time, work, and purpose to be at their best.

 

[johnnycake]

The house dog part. I worry about a lot of bad habits being created/reinforced while I am away at work during the day especially during the early months. I know that hunting will get that worked out on its own through finding the right breeding and putting time in on wild birds.

The started route is very appealing but I worry about missing on early socialization, especially with my youngest who has special needs. But all things considered maybe that is the most realistic path forward.

From my experience, setting aside the individual variability from dog to dog, it is easier to enforce good training rules and behavior on a pup when your kids are under about age 5-6 than it is when they are 6-12. Kids are just so much more "capable" and independent as they get out of the toddler young child phase, and that can really create set backs in training.

The PP is a great breed, but they are not very different from GWPs. In many cases, they are about 90% the same. Raising them requires just as much time, structure, and commitment as a GWP, GSP, or any of the other German breeds.

The PP has unfortunately been affected by its growing popularity. There are many accomplished dogs in terms of field performance, but not as many in terms of mental stability, by which I mean natural calmness. Quite a few that I have seen tend to be barkers or whiners, in other words, they have a very low stimulus threshold.

Not to mention that quite a few have become lighter in terms of body substance, with weaker bone structure, and often shorter or softer coats.

Poor bone structure and soft musculature often go hand in hand with a lower stimulus threshold.

A defining characteristic of the PP is supposed to be a stoic nature, a “fire breather” when given a task, and indifferent when not working. That balance has been lost in a significant number of PPs in the U.S. The drive is still there, but the stoicism is often missing.

I’m not saying all of them are like this, but quite a few are, especially over the past 10 years. I would strongly recommend doing thorough research before getting one. They are expensive dogs. Ask specifically about the parents’ natural calmness in real working conditions, not just the “off switch” talk, which is often more marketing than reality.

Before people pile up on me, I like PPs and I have seen great ones.

I'm a PP guy, and I think you have pretty closely nailed it. Over the last 10 (particularly the last 5-6) the number of "anxious" and whiny PPs has grown alarmingly. I even own one of them, and it's frustrating at times to say the least.