So the person survived a Grizzly bear attack by killing the bear, but the rest of us should do it differently. Makes sense, right?

[bucksnbirds]

No words needed.

 

[BuckSmasher]

I can't even wrap my head around the message in this article, but I'm slow sometimes, so I thought I'd consult the RS hive in the event my old age is causing me to miss something.

Article HERE.

Any and all insights greatly appreciated.


Eddie

I used to be a bear spray believer. The argument that accurate shooting at a rapidly moving target while under duress vs a cloud of spray that was much easier to get on target resonated with me.

Then came the reports of folks dying after deploying bear spray, not just one or two isolated instances but several. I began to re-evaluate my position and research firearm effectiveness.

A couple of things became clear. Spray, even under ideal conditions is an extremely short range defense. The extreme short range of spray negates the accuracy problem of a firearm. If both my spray and my pistol are both used at the range of my arm accuracy is equal. The second thing that became clear is that spray doesn't stop some bears. Maybe they got a partial mouthful, or they were not psychologically willing to break the attack for whatever reason. Bullets do not rely on getting the bear to change its mind.

I am of the opinion that the continued insistence on spray instead of firearms is more to protect the bear than humans, a bias against or unfamiliarity with guns, or all the above.

 

[Yukon Cornelius]

I'm more interested where you are coming up with "hundreds" of people use it effectively it each year? That would be multiple encounters every day, all summer. Please do tell where your info comes from, cause i sure don't hear about more than a few all summer in western wyo each year.

I'll always prefer my gun over spray. I can shoot as a deterrent in early instances, along with protect myself in the case of a charge. I bring spray as well plenty of times, but my pistol is the 1st thing I'm reaching for when I have close encounters. If you have to use spray, and the wind happens to be ripping right in your face, how do you think that's gonna work?

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Honestly, not every spray is reported. I agree though. Doubt it’s hundreds, but I do bet it’s much higher than we read about.

 

[grfox92]

Honestly bear spray has proven affective by hundreds of unlucky and/or idiot tourists

If you have it on you, and the grizzly is not literally already on top of you, why wouldn't you use the spray first?

ETA: not talking about the individual in the article, just an open question

Where I live in Wyoming I would say I would be unable to use spray 50% of the time due to the wind. The last thing I want to do is have to contemplate when a bear is charging me if I need to draw my pistol or my spray.

Spray is only effective in the best conditions.

 

[GMax]

The ant-gun message is clear. Bad advice.

 

[GMax]

The ant-gun message is clear. Bad advice.

ya night shoot your eye out yo

 

[rodney482]

Im all for being armed w the proper gun all the time.

Backcountry .. bears, cats, wolves, moose, meth head
Inner city
Work
Vacationing
Walk in my woods

 

[dtrkyman]

I don’t live around brown or grizzly bears, see a few black bears occasionally, not going to read the article, not giving anti gun folk any attention!

If I’m in bear country I’m packing a gun, maybe spray as well, I don’t understand the hesitation to shoot a bear, if it’s me or the bear I’m shooting!!! If I remotely know it’s coming I’m shooting long before the bear is on me!


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[Dos Perros]

I look at population level advice like this.

Look at any drug that gets approved for and released to the market. Sure it may help a lot of people, but it harmed and even killed some in the studies. On every issue, YOU get to decide if the population level advice is relevant to you, the individual.

I will tell you...my 9 y/o carries spray, because I'm not about to give him a firearm. I tell less experienced granola types new to bear country to carry spray. I myself carry a 10mm. Don't think I know anyone that's ever used either.

 

[KHNC]

I want to hear how these fools became experts!

 

[Bearded Bowhunter]

The article is comical in a lot of ways, but shows the writer's pure ignorance of firearms and usage when it infers you will only shoot one bullet with a single path. Pretty sure nobody given the chance to pull the trigger more than once at a charging grizz will pause to see if the first one did it.

 

[ThreeOhSeven]

Spray works great, but its banned in Yellowstone NP....Really?

Bear spray is definitely not banned in YNP.

 

[ThreeOhSeven]

I would love to see more studies/ live interactions with brown bears and bear spray.

For example, when releasing a problem bear back into the wilderness, the woods cop should be close by in a safe location armed with bear spray. If said problem bear turns on said woods cop after release, bear spray is deployed and interaction is recorded. Over time and repetition, the effectiveness can be calculated. Also, now the problem bears have associated their last human interaction with bear spray. Win win.

 

[EdP]

"Avoidance is the best deterrent."

Avoidance is NOT a deterrent, it is a strategy to prevent needing a deterrent and the best strategy where bears are concerned. When your strategy fails you have to rely on tactics. That's why I am always armed with a firearm anywhere I am likely to encounter bear, black or brown.

“If you hit the bear and you don't kill it, you're in a lot more trouble than you would have been otherwise because now that bear's probably gonna be enraged."

Really, and a face full of pepper spray just turns a charging bear into Yogi because the bear has never experienced it before? When did the bear experience getting shot before?

I'll be hunting in griz country this fall and I will have a rifle, a 10mm and bear spray. If I get charged my first choice is the rifle with the 10mm second. No doubt a successful defense with spray would be preferable but there is no time to check the wind first so lead will fly. I hope this isn't the case because even a completely successful defense with a firearm is a PITA for everyone involved. Chase off a bear with spray and you can go about your business without the inquisition involved with a shooting.

I read on the forum some time ago something that struck me as good advice. It was that spray worked well to chase off a curious bear, but lead was more likely to save you in a charge.

 

[mntnguide]

Before I posted, I quickly searched and found an article from Winnepeg stating 1100 uses in 2022. But thanks to your comment I read further and yeah turns out it was 1100 uses in criminal acts... not against bearsapologies for the misinformation, and will edit my post

But regardless, I stand by my question. There are a million what-ifs to ask yourself. Have you actually had close encounters with grizzly and used a firearm and or bearspray? I have not

I have never had to use spray, I have used my pistol. I am in grizzly country all the time, and guided in the Teton wilderness for 5 years, where grizzlies were a daily occurrence. Id say the closest ive been is about 15 feet. Ive never had to shoot a bear, but my 10mm has turned multiple interactions into no problems as they ran away from the sound and ground blowing up in front of them. The one thing I will say, the shear power and determination a grizzly has is down right scary when you actually witness it, and I will never trust a 16oz can of high strength pepper to save my life.

An old guide friend of mine had to shoot a griz years ago, they jumped her in thick trees, not a good scenario and she charged. He unloaded a can of spray on her, which turned her away, only to have her come back again. At that time he shot her with his 45/70, hit her direct, and she proceeded to charge 2 more times, and take 2 more full hits from that gun before going down. Without his gun, who knows if him and his client would have walked out of those trees that day.

 

[Shortschaf]

I have never had to use spray, I have used my pistol. I am in grizzly country all the time, and guided in the Teton wilderness for 5 years, where grizzlies were a daily occurrence. Id say the closest ive been is about 15 feet. Ive never had to shoot a bear, but my 10mm has turned multiple interactions into no problems as they ran away from the sound and ground blowing up in front of them. The one thing I will say, the shear power and determination a grizzly has is down right scary when you actually witness it, and I will never trust a 16oz can of high strength pepper to save my life.

An old guide friend of mine had to shoot a griz years ago, they jumped her in thick trees, not a good scenario and she charged. He unloaded a can of spray on her, which turned her away, only to have her come back again. At that time he shot her with his 45/70, hit her direct, and she proceeded to charge 2 more times, and take 2 more full hits from that gun before going down. Without his gun, who knows if him and his client would have walked out of those trees that day.

I live in Southcentral Alaska and have never had to use bear spray or a firearm defensively. I follow many of the practices in the article, but obviously they don’t always work. I carry a 10mm outdoors when I’m not carrying a rifle.

That being said I do own bear spray and have practiced with it. I think it can be an effective bear (or criminal) deterrent, however I’m often in thick brush or strong enough wind that I wouldn’t want to deploy it. I almost never carry it.

My wife owns a pistol, but feels more comfortable carrying bear spray. Since she knows the risks and has practiced with it, that’s fine with me.
I’ve been in situations where I felt I was more likely to be accidentally shot or sprayed than mauled.

If you come visit and you’re competent with a firearm, I’ll loan you one for a hike. If you are competent with bear spray, I’ll loan you that. If you’re not familiar with bears, I’ll tell you several things the article mentioned knowing that they usually work.
In the situation when the bear comes anyway, I hope I’m as quick and accurate as the man in the article.

Thank you @Northern Shrike and @mntnguide . This is the context I was looking for from folks who are/were around bear country a lot.

On topics like this it's hard to distinguish the internet Bubba's that dream of getting in shootouts, and people who adopt their strategies because of experience and intelligence. Clearly you are the latter.

I have always brought both spray and pistol with when in bear country. But all of those times to date have been in national parks where I'm extra hesitant to shoot before spraying.

But with the many shortcomings of spray... I'll just say I agree with what you have both said

 

[Cinnabar Slim]

I've had to use spray twice, once with an over-curious sub adult griz during archery that kept belly crawling up to where I was sitting. I could tell he wasn't serious and didn't want to ruin my hunt with discharging my sidearm, so sprayed him right in the face at 10 yards. Worked as you hear it should.

Same summer, few weeks later had a griz scratching on the window of my house in the middle of the night after messing with the bear proof garbage cans. Didn't want to risk wounding the griz and having a bigger problem on my hands, I sprayed him through the window screen. Same result, but surprise , surprise...he was back tossing the garbage cans 30 minutes later.

Have been packing both spray and a sidearm or shotgun ever since, they just have different situational uses. If people think that they can get away with just using bear spray, they are probably wrong. I know several bear biologists in on the backcountry team in Yellowstone that have had more close bear encounters than anyone I know...and they pack and train rigorously with glock 20s and 44 mags in addition to spray.

 

[displacedtexan]

Not everyone can keep their shit screwed down well enough to shoot through the situation.....so I understand.

Exactly.

The general recommendation has to be for the average person going to brown bear country.

The average person is not competent with a handgun, or managing stress.

The group here is outliers. I'm better than average with a pistol, but not a great shot with one. Adrenaline doesn't tend to improve that.

 

[KHNC]

Exactly.

The general recommendation has to be for the average person going to brown bear country.

The average person is not competent with a handgun, or managing stress.

The group here is outliers. I'm better than average with a pistol, but not a great shot with one. Adrenaline doesn't tend to improve that.

You probably should just stick with bear spray and safety glasses to keep it out of your eyes.

 

[RMM]

I'm not a biologist so I can't speak for bears, but OC spray has no effect on a certain percentage of humans. I've witnessed it in my line of work. If this is the case for a certain percentage of bears, do you want to take a gamble that the one charging you is one of them?