So the person survived a Grizzly bear attack by killing the bear, but the rest of us should do it differently. Makes sense, right?

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

Buddy is a retired deputy sherriff. He said in his experience, all the spray does is pi$$ bad guys off. Drunk or high, they will keep fighting you with a direct shot of mace in the eyes and nose. However, the taser has no equal short of deadly force. In IA all deputies are required to be tasered during training to understand its affects. He said he never saw a criminal get tased that didn't immediatley drop and become compliant.

If a human can fight through spray, I damn well assume a charged up grizz, or black bear for that matter, can keep fighting. High cap 9mm or 10mm with pentrators for me any day.

 

[displacedtexan]

I'm not a biologist so I can't speak for bears, but OC spray has no effect on a certain percentage of humans. I've witnessed it in my line of work. If this is the case for a certain percentage of bears, do you want to take a gamble that the one charging you is one of them?

Interesting. Biological or chemical reason? Or do you know?

A pistol isn't exactly a guaranteed bang=flop.

I'm glad I've got options!

 

[eddielasvegas]

I'm not a biologist so I can't speak for bears, but OC spray has no effect on a certain percentage of humans. I've witnessed it in my line of work. If this is the case for a certain percentage of bears, do you want to take a gamble that the one charging you is one of them?

IIRC, it's about 10% of humans will not feel the effects of OC.

I'm pretty sure the author of the article would take her chances if bear % = human %.


Eddie

 

[Jason Snyder]

Buddy is a retired deputy sherriff. He said in his experience, all the spray does is pi$$ bad guys off. Drunk or high, they will keep fighting you with a direct shot of mace in the eyes and nose. However, the taser has no equal short of deadly force. In IA all deputies are required to be tasered during training to understand its affects. He said he never saw a criminal get tased that didn't immediatley drop and become compliant.

If a human can fight through spray, I damn well assume a charged up grizz, or black bear for that matter, can keep fighting. High cap 9mm or 10mm with pentrators for me any day.

I’ve seen far different. A taser is certainly not foolproof in any way.

Also the concentration of OC in bear spray is far higher than the kind used by LEOs. I’ve seen the human variant of OC turn a vicious dog into a whimper really fast.

 

[RMM]

Interesting. Biological or chemical reason? Or do you know?

A pistol isn't exactly a guaranteed bang=flop.

I'm glad I've got options!

Thats a good question, and to be honest I don't know. Just citing what I was told in training and what I've witnessed personally.

 

[displacedtexan]

Thats a good question, and to be honest I don't know. Just citing what I was told in training and what I've witnessed personally.

Fair enough!

I'm just always curious.

 

[207-12A]

Spray worked fine on the bear I sprayed just outside of Anchorage a few years ago. Carry both, but the gun is for night time (it's attached to a flashlight) and high wind. Most people don't shoot real bear ammo enough to claim anything near proficiency beyond arms length. Not to mention carrying a snub nose, ultralight .44 or a subcompact 10mm. Expensive and not fun to practice with. It's funny how people who hate on spray tend to have no first hand experience with it, just lots of internet backed opinions or a buddy of a buddy who told them.

 

[dhatter9]

I’m thinking this guy is glad he had a pistol and not spray….

Survivor of weekend brown bear attack shares harrowing tale with Alaska’s News Source

Three days removed from a near-fatal brown bear attack, a seasoned Alaskan hunter sat down with Alaska’s News Source to describe the wildlife encounter in detail.

www.alaskasnewssource.com

 

[OXN939]

Have you actually had close encounters with grizzly and used a firearm and or bearspray? I have not

I have, twice. Both times were inquisitive, younger bears that got a shot of spray, decided it was outside their comfort level and left.

Only once have I seen a bear I felt like I needed a gun for, hunting the north slope a few years ago. Larger boar that very clearly knew what we were, and still kept circling us and closing distance. My buddy and I both went condition 1 on our rifles and were close to firing a warning shot. Eventually he wandered off, but the decision clearly took some time.

In my mind, bear deterrence involves an escalation of force- for about 90% of bear encounters, like the first two I mentioned, spray will work fine and keeps things from going hot unnecessarily. There are also situations where you need to be able to stop a threat immediately regardless of the conditions.

Carry both and use what's appropriate.

 

[displacedtexan]

I have, twice. Both times were inquisitive, younger bears that got a shot of spray, decided it was outside their comfort level and left.

Only once have I seen a bear I felt like I needed a gun for, hunting the north slope a few years ago. Larger boar that very clearly knew what we were, and still kept circling us and closing distance. My buddy and I both went condition 1 on our rifles and were close to firing a warning shot. Eventually he wandered off, but the decision clearly took some time.

In my mind, bear deterrence involves an escalation of force- for about 90% of bear encounters, like the first two I mentioned, spray will work fine and keeps things from going hot unnecessarily. There are also situations where you need to be able to stop a threat immediately regardless of the conditions.

Carry both and use what's appropriate.

Although I agree with you, and have the same approach.

I have low faith in any common handgun caliber to immediately stop a charging grizzly.

Doesn't mean I'll quit carrying one, but I do try hard to remember they aren't a silver bullet.

 

[taskswap]

Belt and suspenders for me. Bear spray at the slightest hint of interest. 44 mag "pour encourager les autres."

I think a lot of folks who report bear spray not working don't use it early enough. You can't wait until the bear is 3 feet away. I had a chat with a ranger in Yellowstone a few years ago (before COVID), and he quietly suggested that we use bear spray to "haze" a bear even if it wasn't huffing in our direction yet. His reason was they've already had so many issues, but mostly from stupid people - trash and candy bars, you know the drill. I take it this wasn't exactly "published" policy, but it was in a tone that made it pretty clear it was almost encouragement.

The thing is, if a bear (in Yellowstone, anyway) causes trouble around humans, they usually have to destroy the bear. They don't want to have to do that. They would much rather give bears more negative-but-non-lethal reminders to stay away from humans and try to shift their behavior over time. Essentially it boiled down to this: using it too early is a bad hour for Mr Bear. Using it too late is a bad day for EVERYONE - you, your family, Mr Bear, the rangers, maybe another bear that looked like the first one, etc.

So I guess it's not exactly "advice" but I took it to heart. Use it first, use it early, and have a plan B if it doesn't work. Better to know it didn't work while the bear is still 50 feet away.

I don't suppose the rangers would approve of my Plan B.

 

[OXN939]

I have low faith in any common handgun caliber to immediately stop a charging grizzly.

Seems the same guys who disparage bear spray as ineffective generally are the same ones carrying .454 Casulls and .44 mags... would be interested to see how many of them could put multiple critical hits on a moving target under stress with those things.

 

[Jason Snyder]

These threads are always hilarious. Ground hog day…

 

[taskswap]

Seems the same guys who disparage bear spray as ineffective generally are the same ones carrying .454 Casulls and .44 mags... would be interested to see how many of them could put multiple critical hits on a moving target under stress with those things.

Well, that's me. As I mentioned above, in grizzly country (whether hunting or just hiking) I carry both bear spray and a 44-mag. A Ruger Super Redhawk if you must know. I don't practice with it as much as I should (heck, it's $3 a round for the Underwood loads I run) but just based on the past year or so's results I could probably get 2, maybe 3 in, on a charging bear. As to whether they're critical, I don't know. I practice more than the average joe but way less than a soldier. Center-mass on a charging bear is mostly "head and body." Good enough? Once he's <10' away, my last round before I die is about a 3 foot wide target. I like my chances.

Does it matter? Bears are one of the few animals that have their own special word for how they attack. Wolves, tigers, name something else - they attack. Bears MAUL you. I'm not planning on mounting him over my fireplace and trying to minimize damage to the hide. Give me a choice between "hit him accurately with this stick" vs "give it your best shot with a 44" and I like my chances with the 44, is all I'm saying.

 

[displacedtexan]

Well, that's me. As I mentioned above, in grizzly country (whether hunting or just hiking) I carry both bear spray and a 44-mag. A Ruger Super Redhawk if you must know. I don't practice with it as much as I should (heck, it's $3 a round for the Underwood loads I run) but just based on the past year or so's results I could probably get 2, maybe 3 in, on a charging bear. As to whether they're critical, I don't know. I practice more than the average joe but way less than a soldier. Center-mass on a charging bear is mostly "head and body." Good enough? Once he's <10' away, my last round before I die is about a 3 foot wide target. I like my chances.

Does it matter? Bears are one of the few animals that have their own special word for how they attack. Wolves, tigers, name something else - they attack. Bears MAUL you. I'm not planning on mounting him over my fireplace and trying to minimize damage to the hide. Give me a choice between "hit him accurately with this stick" vs "give it your best shot with a 44" and I like my chances with the 44, is all I'm saying.

That's reasonable.

Reasonable isn't how I'd describe most people's approaches to bears.

 

[BuckSmasher]

Belt and suspenders for me. Bear spray at the slightest hint of interest. 44 mag "pour encourager les autres."

I think a lot of folks who report bear spray not working don't use it early enough. You can't wait until the bear is 3 feet away. I had a chat with a ranger in Yellowstone a few years ago (before COVID), and he quietly suggested that we use bear spray to "haze" a bear even if it wasn't huffing in our direction yet. His reason was they've already had so many issues, but mostly from stupid people - trash and candy bars, you know the drill. I take it this wasn't exactly "published" policy, but it was in a tone that made it pretty clear it was almost encouragement.

The thing is, if a bear (in Yellowstone, anyway) causes trouble around humans, they usually have to destroy the bear. They don't want to have to do that. They would much rather give bears more negative-but-non-lethal reminders to stay away from humans and try to shift their behavior over time. Essentially it boiled down to this: using it too early is a bad hour for Mr Bear. Using it too late is a bad day for EVERYONE - you, your family, Mr Bear, the rangers, maybe another bear that looked like the first one, etc.

So I guess it's not exactly "advice" but I took it to heart. Use it first, use it early, and have a plan B if it doesn't work. Better to know it didn't work while the bear is still 50 feet away.

I don't suppose the rangers would approve of my Plan B.

How far away do you think you can use bear spray? You think switching from spray to a gun at 50 feet is plausible? Are there any mfgs or study's that say it is effective that far away? If I found out I can use it that far away I might start carrying it again. I still have some.

Share what you find if you research. I am curious.

Not being sarcastic. I have never discharged bear spray, or seen it discharged anywhere but a youtube video. My research into mfg recommendations and youtube vids I have seen put the number at 40 feet or less. Counter Assault says on their web page 40 ft which I think they intend as a maximum? At least the way I took it.

 

[Woolsocks]

At the end of the day, the effective defense is whatever you train to use. I think the advantage of spray is that it’s like a shotgun - less training needed.

But avoidance is the key. I often bow hunt without either. Also I don’t try to feed them sandwiches and take pictures with cute little cubs like our flip-flop wearing friends in Yellowstone

 

[BuckSmasher]

At the end of the day, the effective defense is whatever you train to use. I think the advantage of spray is that it’s like a shotgun - less training needed.

But avoidance is the key. I often bow hunt without either. Also I don’t try to feed them sandwiches and take pictures with cute little cubs like our flip-flop wearing friends in Yellowstone

You bowhunt in Grizzly country?

 

[RockAndSage]

I am of the opinion that the continued insistence on spray instead of firearms is more to protect the bear than humans, a bias against or unfamiliarity with guns, or all the above.

^^ This, big time. Bias against humans in general is endemic in certain ideologies and career fields, and often comes with a form of NIMBYism as well - many of those same biologists and Rangers recommending everyone carry spray but not firearms will be carrying both in the field, and would throw a fit if someone suggested they be banned from carrying guns while working near bears.

Law enforcement has a duty belt - full of options. Spray or taser for compliance, but the gun for a lethal threat. Curious or probing bears get spray, charging bears get bullets, without hesitation. The curious need to be conditioned to fear humans if at all possible, and the charging need to be removed from the gene pool. I am under zero obligation to assume a charge is a "bluff", or any such childish nonsense, and no animal's life is worth a human's - or the devastation a successful mauling causes to individuals and families.

Anytime someone brings up this "spray only" issue, ask them one question - "Is that bear's life worth my safety?"

Anything other than a quick and decisive "no" reveals their bias.

 

[JeffRaines]

I’m with the carry both crowd.

I’m all for using the conservation minded option of spray and then vacating the area. Maybe the bear will do what I think it will do and just leave me alone.

On the other hand, what if it’s a sow with an unseen cub? Once she gets her bearings what’s she gonna do next? And if I’m only carrying spray here I sit with an empty container. If she decides to come back I’m toast.

So I’m either carrying only a pistol, or both.

There’s also a website out there that did the research, and on every grizzly/brown bear encounter involving a firearm they could get information on, only 6 encounters out of ~170 did the firearm not end the confrontation.

It turns out bears hate being shot, regardless of what size cartridge. For me, reading that put to rest the old adage of “all you’re gonna do is piss it off!”.

Edit: https://www.ammoland.com/2023/11/ha...umented-incidents-98-effective/#axzz8jZ9cPMIh