Senate vote public lands sale

[Hnthrdr]

The housing excuse is so lame and false. I’d assume there are thousands if not millions of empty/abandoned homes, buildings and lots across cities in the west. I’d guess the big rust built cities are even worse. If fixing a house crunch is the real need then let’s actual get it done with lands that are already private and developed. Plus you would think owners of undeveloped private lands in cities would be all over getting stuff built just due to the potential for income.

The constant threats to our public lands over the last decade are incredibly bad. Until those that keep pushing them get voted out of power and the rich donors buying the politicians get truly slapped down I don’t see it stopping

Amen, there are 100k if not millions of units or places available to build in this country that are already developed, people don’t want to live there because the governments of those areas suck and do no enforce the rule of law and provide order…

 

[go_deep]

If you believe Google.
There are a significant number of vacant homes in the US, with estimates ranging from 5.6 million to 16 million depending on the source and definition of "vacant". These vacant homes can be due to various reasons, including seasonal or recreational use, foreclosures, or simply being left unoccupied.

 

[WRO]

Yea so much urban area in Alaska and central Idaho


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The bill specifically calls it out to be identified, not the hyperbole you see posted.

And yes I emailed my senator in opposition.

 

[WRO]

Amen, there are 100k if not millions of units or places available to build in this country that are already developed, people don’t want to live there because the governments of those areas suck and do no enforce the rule of law and provide order…

Or quality if life is crap because there’s no good paying jobs, they’re all over the rural west, from my travels but they’re shit holes in shit hole places to live and raise a family.

Most people have no clue what it takes to develop and entitle raw land, it’s not as easy as we’ve got dirt let’s plant subdivision seeds and get rich.


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[WaWox]

I am absolutely opposed to the land sale but we shouldn't pretend the west is tapped out on population growth due to water.

Almond and other nut farming operations use approx 5 million acre ft of water in California. That's approximately equal to the total residential water use of the entire state. We could DOUBLE the California population and come out even on water by removing almond farms.

And if you ask "oh but what will we eat?".. well about 70% of those nuts are exported.

The numbers for other western states are MORE insane. Not less.

Arizona could double its population by just ending a couple of specific (purely for export!) alfalfa water rights. New Mexico likewise.

 

[WaWox]

Actually let me clarify: I am strongly in favor of a hypothetical policy that actually freed up in demand already urbanized parcels for high density (and thus affordable) housing. This bill is not that.

The best thing we can do to preserve wintering ranges is to stop the sprawl. The sprawl happens partly because people hate the crime in inner cities and partly because they hate the gridlock in cities and largest part because they simply cannot afford the cities. Lets fix the cities. Lets give people the freedom to chopse to live lives they enjoy, versus forcing everyone into sadder and sadder commutes a huge distance from jobs. Those who want to live rurally (i do, within limits) can do so but let's keep the rural rural hy giving those who want amenities and 'easier' life cities with low crime, efficient transportation, and cheaper housing.

Sad that NO party in ANY of the fifty states is advancing an agenda of tough on crime, pro transport pro density city development.

 

[Hnthrdr]

Or quality if life is crap because there’s no good paying jobs, they’re all over the rural west, from my travels but they’re shit holes in shit hole places to live and raise a family.

Most people have no clue what it takes to develop and entitle raw land, it’s not as easy as we’ve got dirt let’s plant subdivision seeds and get rich.


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Exactly! Remote work has changed that somewhat, although that seems to be kind of going away, and honestly it has its own set of issues. Interesting note, loads of people seem to be selling out from the COVID I’m going to live in the sticks crowd in the foothills/ mountains of Colorado My parents unfortunately voted for politicians who betrayed our people at the alter of one sided “free trade” and cheap goods, hind sight if we hadn’t off shored so much industry there would be a lot more flint michigans or Gary Indiana’s that could potentially still be inhabitable.

Most small towns in the west are Ag/ maybe oil&gas with some tourism sprinkled in. Unless you ranch or are heavily involved in the lifestyle of living out there I would argue 97% of your average American would not want to live there. No convince, no entertainment, no shopping, just long commutes…

 

[Hnthrdr]

Actually let me clarify: I am strongly in favor of a hypothetical policy that actually freed up in demand already urbanized parcels for high density (and thus affordable) housing. This bill is not that.

The best thing we can do to preserve wintering ranges is to stop the sprawl. The sprawl happens partly because people hate the crime in inner cities and partly because they hate the gridlock in cities and largest part because they simply cannot afford the cities. Lets fix the cities. Lets give people the freedom to chopse to live lives they enjoy, versus forcing everyone into sadder and sadder commutes a huge distance from jobs. Those who want to live rurally (i do, within limits) can do so but let's keep the rural rural hy giving those who want amenities and 'easier' life cities with low crime, efficient transportation, and cheaper housing.

Sad that NO party in ANY of the fifty states is advancing an agenda of tough on crime, pro transport pro density city development.

Yes to this! There are so many places people would live but we willingly allow criminal elements to thrive and keep good honest people out. We choose to live in a society that has a lot of criminals. It sounds brutal but we could have very little crime and very few criminals with a heavy handed approach, elements of our society would never allow it ( those people, largely women, are often more at risk and more often victimized as well)

 

[WaWox]

Yeah, let's update "a chicken in every pot" to "a cop on every street corner and in every subway car", but also we need more subway cars and commuter busses and city rail... in europe, they don't use the bus system as de facto shelter for the mentally ill and they are hence used by actual professionals. We could learn from that.

 

[go_deep]

What would be an interesting fact to add to this conversation is how many acres of already private land had been listed for sale in these areas in the last few years? If your putting several thousands of already private land up for sale in these very countries, the opportunity to develop housing already exists.

 

[Mule3006Elk]

Wrote both of my Senators in opposition.

 

[WRO]

What would be an interesting fact to add to this conversation is how many acres of already private land had been listed for sale in these areas in the last few years? If your putting several thousands of already private land up for sale in these very countries, the opportunity to develop housing already exists.

It’s not just housing it’s industrial land as well.

Look at Vegas on onX maps if you’re bored, there’s not much private left to develop.


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[realunlucky]

It’s not just housing it’s industrial land as well.

Look at Vegas on onX maps if you’re bored, there’s not much private left to develop.


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Las Vegas shouldn't be afforded the opportunity to expand since they are already stealing more than thier share of water.

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[WRO]

Las Vegas shouldn't be afforded the opportunity to expand since they are already stealing more than thier share of water.

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So are you for forced relocations then? Or government mandated places you can and can’t live?


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[realunlucky]

So are you for forced relocations then? Or government mandated places you can and can’t live?


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That water is already government mandated.
Also Las Vegas is at the lower end of the water shed so eventually that resource will be consumed upstream anyways. Unless of course the government steps in to screw those upsteam and makes growth impossible for them.

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[go_deep]

It’s not just housing it’s industrial land as well.

Look at Vegas on onX maps if you’re bored, there’s not much private left to develop.


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Zoning can be changed, happens everyday.

 

[wyosam]

What’s your solution then?

I’m not saying that I support this because I don’t, but I understand the issues faced in some communities.


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Done continue to build where there is no water. The fact that there isn’t a bunch private landowners wanting to make a bunch of money developing their land is fortuitous. It sucks for some who want to live there, but it’s a 100% fact that not everyone can afford to live where they want, or where they grew up for that matter.


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[WRO]

Done continue to build where there is no water. The fact that there isn’t a bunch private landowners wanting to make a bunch of money developing their land is fortuitous. It sucks for some who want to live there, but it’s a 100% fact that not everyone can afford to live where they want, or where they grew up for that matter.


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Have you ever developed and entitled a piece of raw ground before?

We’ve heard the no water argument since the 80s yet no community has ended because of dehydration.

So a homeless camp on blm is better than housing, commercial development, or industrial?

I can take you to them in several places in Oregon and Nevada.

 

[realunlucky]

Have you ever developed and entitled a piece of raw ground before?

We’ve heard the no water argument since the 80s yet no community has ended because of dehydration.

So a homeless camp on blm is better than housing, commercial development, or industrial?

I can take you to them in several places in Oregon and Nevada.

So homeless camps and development cancel each other out? Of course not.

Nothing is a simple single answer solution.

And yes water usage has been on the radar since the 60s. It's a resource we can't produce just take from one place to another. All though out history when resources "dried" up communities have relocated. We can sure learn alot from California's in state water woes between the communities that get to import more and more and those communities the government has chosen will have to go without.

Apologies for my comments further taking this important issue into the weeds.

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[WRO]

So homeless camps and development cancel each other out? Of course not.

Nothing is a simple single answer solution.

And yes water usage has been on the radar since the 60s. It's a resource we can't produce just take from one place to another. All though out history when resources "dried" up communities have relocated. We can sure learn alot from California's in state water woes between the communities that get to import more and more and those communities the government has chosen will have to go without.

Apologies for my comments further taking this important issue into the weeds.

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To a certain extent they do, one of my closer friends is a blm manager, like me he’s not at all for wholesale sell offs, but in his areas near any major city, they spend significant funds cleaning up homeless camps, fires, etc.

I do on properties my company owns, difference is we can have the cops do it quickly and we pay the bill.

It’s not a black and white issue, this bills retarded but so is the government owning land with no public access or homeless camps.

Unfortunately a nuanced view on this topic isn’t acceptable, it’s all black and white, no different than abortion or the second amendment conversations.