Say you find yourself in a SHTF situation like a riot

[Hogyotedeer]

It is amazing that the right for one to protect himself and family is being debated. What power does protestors have to put their feet on another man's property(Peaceful protest or not)....Stay away with your BS is good enough...I hope this doesn't happen to me though as i may also be in the news.

 

[Dustin the wind]

I'm just here for the hunting. Not my fault if *notacops* start roid ragin.

Are you? Of the overwhelming amount of posts you have contributed you have basically had one post remotely related to hunting almost a year ago. You’re here for the wrong reasons. Finish your bottle and head over to reddit with the rest of your ilk.

 

[Cant hit em]

Bruce is this you? Bro, you're yoked. Huge. Go ahead and lose the shirt pal, no way ANTIFA would mess with you dude.

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[Desk Jockey]

If you really want to learn about this stuff check out some publications on riot control. Many of then trace their lineage to Fairbairn, Sykes and Applegate. Prevailing theory is that if you are confronted by a large number of protesters or rioters, you will want face, head and neck protection along with shoulder, back and torso to shield from thrown objects. Fairbairn believed mobs would disperse with the first shots fired but they were generally confronting mobs that were not armed with guns. In the present day US it is a assumption that a mob will contain several armed members who may or may not return fire. I am not sure about castle doctrine or duty to retreat in MO but I suspect if they had started firing into a crowd of relatively peaceful protesters, they would be facing murder charges.

arfcom and a few other forums are probably far better resources for this type of information and a better context for this discussion.

 

[Shraggs]

For God sakes, there is rioting in the streets, innocent people have been killed and property damaged. this is a legitimate topic. i guess no TV means it isn't real and Bruce is off base...

not sure what would posses antagonist to make fun of these questions from what used to be a friendly community, but if you think its a silly thread move on to the next and don't be an ass and start crap - hmm i agree we have a few trolls on this thread maybe sympathetic to the anti American cause sounds to me.

Bruce, tactical chest rig with plates, molle so you can add whatever magazines you want for your weapons.

 

[Rknight]

If you want tactical the Ronin assault lite and their belts are hard to beat.
I have 2 vertx bags because if I have to go I want to blend in an go. Play with layout and see what fits and functions best for what you want to carry. Put a good pfak in your bag. More importantly train with whatever you have as your “go bag”. Just like hunting you don’t want to get to a situation and hope you know what to do

my goal is always to get my family safe and get away from the threat. Engaging is the last option

 

[jmav58]

My brother sent me this. Don’t want to derail the thread but thought it was comical.


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[Where's Bruce?]

I'm just here for the hunting. Not my fault if *notacops* start roid ragin.

Rokslide is not strictly a "hunting" forum...it is a place for all outdoor types and heavily relied on for advice in gear. If you do it in the wilderness, it's likely addressed on this site. Simmer down.

Desk Jockey, a peaceful protest doesn't include trepassing on private property, tearing down security gates and threatening to kill residents. The couple had no means of retreat or escape, the streets were controlled by the mob who arrived without warning. Buy a vowel-get a clue. I would shoot to protect my family first, then worry about the legal issues. You can't face criminal charges if you're dead.



Good God...common sense isn't common enough anymore. Gonna go check out the Ronin line. Thanks!

 

[Desk Jockey]

hey Bruce, check your roll. Their are plenty of folks on this site that have law enforcement experience as well as military backgrounds, including special operations service. There are a few folks, like me, that have both and have either trained in riot control or actually dealt with riots.

#1 I am not aware that the protesters threatened to kill anyone. If you have evidence of this, please provide.

#2 the laws vary by state and municipality, but generally speaking, if you shoot someone who has made entry into the physical structure of your domicile, you are unlikely to be charged with murder. If you shoot them on your lawn or exterior space of the house and they are not in the act of shooting at you or visibly brandishing a weapon, there is a fairly strong chance you are going be charged and tried for murder. MO castle doctrine is only clear on the use of lethal force to prevent harm to a person, not property.

#3 even if you agree with their right to do what they did, that guy and his wife made so many tactical errors That I don’t even know where to begin. Setting aside the wardrobe choices and poor muzzle and trigger control, how about not standing in the open and making a big fat target of yourself For starters.

they wanted to make a statement. They did and now they will deal with the fall out. I strongly suspect it will be very unpleasant for them and in totality much worse than if some protesters had torn up their front yard.

more broadly and in addition to the current social friction, my biggest concern is that images like this couple will galvanize the anti gun crowd and will lead to gun restrictions down the road when they regain political power.

Rokslide is not strictly a "hunting" forum...it is a place for all outdoor types and heavily relied on for advice in gear. If you do it in the wilderness, it's likely addressed on this site. Simmer down.

Desk Jockey, a peaceful protest doesn't include trepassing on private property, tearing down security gates and threatening to kill residents. The couple had no means of retreat or escape, the streets were controlled by the mob who arrived without warning. Buy a vowel-get a clue. I would shoot to protect my family first, then worry about the legal issues. You can't face criminal charges if you're dead.

View attachment 195004

Good God...common sense isn't common enough anymore. Gonna go check out the Ronin line. Thanks!

 

[Dustin the wind]

A lot of shoulda coulda wouldas after the fact. Everyone responds differently in these situations. They thought they had security, they didn’t, adds to the unpreparedness. The fact is they did the best they could with what they had in a crazy adrenaline filled situation they had never even come close to in their lives. Everything else is bullshit really.

 

[GHOSTofWENDELL]

hey Bruce, check your roll. Their are plenty of folks on this site that have law enforcement experience as well as military backgrounds, including special operations service. There are a few folks, like me, that have both and have either trained in riot control or actually dealt with riots.

#1 I am not aware that the protesters threatened to kill anyone. If you have evidence of this, please provide.

#2 the laws vary by state and municipality, but generally speaking, if you shoot someone who has made entry into the physical structure of your domicile, you are unlikely to be charged with murder. If you shoot them on your lawn or exterior space of the house and they are not in the act of shooting at you or visibly brandishing a weapon, there is a fairly strong chance you are going be charged and tried for murder. MO castle doctrine is only clear on the use of lethal force to prevent harm to a person, not property.

#3 even if you agree with their right to do what they did, that guy and his wife made so many tactical errors That I don’t even know where to begin. Setting aside the wardrobe choices and poor muzzle and trigger control, how about not standing in the open and making a big fat target of yourself For starters.

they wanted to make a statement. They did and now they will deal with the fall out. I strongly suspect it will be very unpleasant for them and in totality much worse than if some protesters had torn up their front yard.

more broadly and in addition to the current social friction, my biggest concern is that images like this couple will galvanize the anti gun crowd and will lead to gun restrictions down the road when they regain political power.

A reasonable voice and statement by someone who just doesn't want to play "tacticool". This thread is a dumpster fire, I appreciate hearing from someone with real world knowledge.

OP if you want to really learn things like this why not just join the military/police force? Tacticool Bros with too much money/time to waste on a forum are not going to help much.

 

[Where's Bruce?]

At 60 I doubt the military wants me. Besides, I have three companies to run. For the record, all I asked for was advice on selecting a tactical vest. All the rest is



Now, getting back on track...this seems like the best overall option (balancing weight and protection options) and if anything, is overkill for the scenario presented. https://bulletproofzone.com/product...er-armor-basic-loadout?variant=12360363671649

What do the experienced guys think?

 

[Dustin the wind]

At 60 I doubt the military wants me. Besides, I have three companies to run. For the record, all I asked for was advice on selecting a tactical vest. All the rest is

View attachment 195023

Now, getting back on track...this seems like the best overall option (balancing weight and protection options) and if anything, is overkill for the scenario presented. https://bulletproofzone.com/product...er-armor-basic-loadout?variant=12360363671649

What do the experienced guys think?

Be reasonable Bruce, fake your age, abandon your family and responsibilities and start basic. Otherwise you can’t speak about tactics and being prepared.

 

[realunlucky]

Bruce I've reflected and agree that Rokslide members are one of the most trusted sources of information on the "net". If I believed that I needed to purchase a plate carrying vest for my personal protection, I'd definitely want opinions from people that I trusted. I'm doubtful that this discussion can stay on task but guess we'll soon find out

 

[Desk Jockey]

Now, getting back on track...this seems like the best overall option (balancing weight and protection options) and if anything, is overkill for the scenario presented. https://bulletproofzone.com/product...er-armor-basic-loadout?variant=12360363671649

What do the experienced guys think?

that doesn’t seem like a bad option or price for an all in one solution, though I don’t know the Comany. Ar500 plates rated to IIIA will stop nearly any handgun But not rifle rounds. You May do better with a soft armor ballistic vest for that level of protection <edit>

lots of options and you could spend a lot of money on something that is likely / hopefully going to see very little if any use.

I have a crye JPC will a 3x blueforce gear 10speed AR mag carrier So can carry 6 AR mags and 3 pistol mags on a carrier that could still be reasonably concealed under a jacket. I run it with a commercial variant of Level III ESAPI ceramic plates, which will stop a rifle, are lighter than steel but require a soft armor backer to catch spall. I got the Plates and backers through a place called SKD tactical But I am not sure what they offer in civy sales.

a cheaper angle is surplus gear. The older OTV armor can be had at surplus very cheap. The soft armor panels will be past there prime as well as the plates, but they are likely going to stop most bullets Regardless.

 

[Marbles]

A lot of shoulda coulda wouldas after the fact. Everyone responds differently in these situations. They thought they had security, they didn’t, adds to the unpreparedness. The fact is they did the best they could with what they had in a crazy adrenaline filled situation they had never even come close to in their lives. Everything else is bullshit really.

So, you are saying preparing to fail by failing to prepare is acceptable? The whole point of analyzing such a situation is to learn, a lot of people want to reject that learning when it contradicts their fantasy world where they are Bruce Willis.

 

[Marbles]

that doesn’t seem like a bad option or price for an all in one solution, though I don’t know the Comany. Ar500 plates rated to IIIA will stop most common rifle threats and nearly any handgun.

IIIA is rated for 44 mag handgun. No rifle rating.

III is rated for 7.62x51 NATO.

The ratings are more detailed, and their application more complex, but the above hits what most people need to know.

 

[Dustin the wind]

So, you are saying preparing to fail by failing to prepare is acceptable? The whole point of analyzing such a situation is to learn, a lot of people want to reject that learning when it contradicts their fantasy world where they are Bruce Willis.

You are talking about two lawyers who live in the middle of a large city. The fact that they even had firearms they probably sort of knew how to use means they are already light years more prepared than the family next to them. Do you really expect people of this walk of life to be prepping and doing tactical training regularly? Put into perspective who we are talking about here. Had they not even taken the small step of arming themselves you could well see the St. Louis version of what happened to Ambassador Stevens. Cut them a break.

 

[*zap*]

OK, so the op just asked for some gear advice. Pretty straight forward.

My personal views are that people should be considering their options if things get real bad all of a sudden. These protests and/or riots can escalate very fast. Recently average people have been dragged out of cars and beaten, cops have been shot/assaulted and so on........someone can be caught in the wrong place at the wrong time and I think that is obvious.

People that loose badly when a unexpected violent action is taken against them generally have one first thought. 'I cannot believe this is happening to me'. Then it is generally over for them.

By putting some thought into what to do and how to do it a person may be able to avoid that line of thinking and go straight to productive actions.

I wonder what will happen if we have an incident similar to Kent State at one of these protests? It is possible we could see almost immediate nationwide (to a degree) chaos if that happens. When cops refuse to protect themselves, their own equipment and headquarters do you think they will protect you? I think the Georgia State Police headquarters was set on fire a few days ago by "protesters'.......so this is not a far fetched fantasy at all.

As far as the example given (St. Louis married couple) I do not know what point the op was trying to make by giving that example so whether that couple was correct/incorrect is a mute point because I do not know the context the example was used for. Could have been simply that a mob of people show up outside your house and you do not know what will happen next.....

Carry on.

 

[FLAK]

My brother sent me this. Don’t want to derail the thread but thought it was comical.


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Is that a PPK?