Ruined Knee?

[OutdoorsMD]

Happy to explain your MRI results if you want. Shoot me a PM and I give you my phone number. I am an Orthopedic Surgeon in MI and ironically sitting icing my knee from a lateral meniscus tear I had fixed yesterday that I tore on an Alaskan goat hunt.

 

[iseebucks]

My friends....

While in Alaska this past September I injured my right knee. The pain was instant and severe. After returning home I was seen by an orthopedist who diagnosed it as a likely medial meniscus tear. I did physical therapy and medications without improvement. It's been 3 months since the injury and I had an MRI performed this morning. The report says:

1. Complex tear of the medial meniscus involving the posterior horn and body.
2. Possible tear extension into the anterior horn.
3. Suspected partial tear of the MCL.
4. Joint effusion and edema.

Now, I have no problem understanding what this means in terms of medical language, anatomy, and the overall problem(s) within the knee. I have a return appt to discuss surgery (most likely) or other strategy on 1-4. Before then I'm trying to gain additional insight as to my options. My 2 main concerns are pain relief and preserving knee function consistent with my lifestyle. I'm here wondering if any 'sliders have personal experiences or knowledge they might share.

Thanks!

You must have stepped in a hole and hyperextended it? If not, what happened?

I recommend riding a stationary bike. This really helped my knee feel better and recover when I injured it a few years ago. I think it releases synovial fluid.

 

[*zap*]

The high seat stationary bike is good to my knee's....I do max resistance setting and around 40-45 rpm or 11-13mph. Not as much impact as walking....also I think a quality turmeric supp is good for inflammation.

I did almost daily indoor bike for about 5 months and got up to 90 minutes, after that I started a rucking program and my knees were the best that they had been in a very long time....but I stopped doing the bike. Eventually my knees started hurting so now I am back at the bike and it will be a baseline exercise for me. I plan to add back in hiking and rucking but keep the bike at more than 50% of the total and see how that goes.

This round I started the bike @ 20 minutes daily (plan to be at 90 by sometime in Feb.) and my knees hurt coming down the stairs from the cardio section @ the gym....now I am @ 30 minutes and 9 days and there is a very big difference in how my knees feel walking down the stairs. That's 9 days with no hiking or rucking and just the bike.

 

[Kevin Dill]

You must have stepped in a hole and hyperextended it? If not, what happened?

I recommend riding a stationary bike. This really helped my knee feel better and recover when I injured it a few years ago. I think it releases synovial fluid.

No. I was crossing a fast-water creek while carrying a gear load. I put my right foot (boot) down and shifted my weight to the right leg as I began to lift the left. My right boot slipped from its position. I immediately reacted by instinctively twisting and stiffening to plant the boot. That's when the severe pain hit. I believe the twist/pivot put a lot of rotational force into the knee which....combined with a majority of my weight on that leg....produced the meniscus tear. It may also have caused some MCL damage.

Regarding a bike or other recovery exercises; I'll be leaving that decision to my ortho doc and PT people. Right now it's impossible to do much exercise without going straight to intolerable 8+/10 knee pain. My current orders are 'activity as tolerated' but nothing to stress the knee or bring on more pain.

 

[tracker12]

tore my meniscus several years ago. I rehabbed it and in was fine for about 6 years to where I have the doc go in and clean it up. Six years now with no further problems.

 

[loganwayne]

I’m 30. And have had surgery on both of my knees now. Skiing HARD in my teens has wrecked me, my left knee I waited/ignored it until I was in so much pain I couldnt walk. Only advice I can give is DO what they say for PT after surgery. I started walking on my Left knee two weeks early than I should have and have issues from time to time with it.

 

[Pocoloco]

My friends....

While in Alaska this past September I injured my right knee. The pain was instant and severe. After returning home I was seen by an orthopedist who diagnosed it as a likely medial meniscus tear. I did physical therapy and medications without improvement. It's been 3 months since the injury and I had an MRI performed this morning. The report says:

1. Complex tear of the medial meniscus involving the posterior horn and body.
2. Possible tear extension into the anterior horn.
3. Suspected partial tear of the MCL.
4. Joint effusion and edema.

Now, I have no problem understanding what this means in terms of medical language, anatomy, and the overall problem(s) within the knee. I have a return appt to discuss surgery (most likely) or other strategy on 1-4. Before then I'm trying to gain additional insight as to my options. My 2 main concerns are pain relief and preserving knee function consistent with my lifestyle. I'm here wondering if any 'sliders have personal experiences or knowledge they might share.

Thanks!

While skiing bumps I tore meniscus and patella tendon. Doc told me most injuries result from muscle imbalances. Skied so much quads super strong and hamstrings not strong. He recommended try rehab to strengthen hamstrings, reverse tread water was the best. Kinesiology tape was another huge help, utube how to apply for your injury. The above helped me ski again, hike and workout but I still am careful how I tie my shoe cause bending to deep exacerbates it. It took more than a year to get back to some sort of normal, but it hardly bothers me now ten years later. Good luck with your recovery

 

[thinhorn_AK]

No advice for your specific injury but as somebody who has personally recovered from a severe trauma injury I’ll give my advice on recovery.

First, don’t rush the recovery, I lost an entire season recovering from my injury, it sucked and it was frustrating but you just can’t rush the recovery.

Don’t skip the PT no matter how lame it seems. Just do it religiously.

Do your best to keep fit while you are recovering. I spent money on a few different core strength programs and those were my workouts for the better part of 8 months. It got boring and repetitive but I made myself do them 4 times a week. During that time, I was also very careful about what I was eating. I really avoided carbs and empty calories. Ate a lot of steaks, salads, eggs etc. really limited my portions (my wife helped with that) and I avoided alcohol. I’m made sure to drink a few gallons of water each day.

In the end I bounced back, my core has never been as strong as it was during that time. I keep saying I’m going to do those workouts again but there are so many other things to do. It’s a tough pill to swallow when you are facing down a year of recovery so it’s important to have a game plan and stick to it.

 

[ZDR]

@Kevin Dill
I had 50% of my medial meniscus removed 3 years ago and so far am still going strong in the backcountry. My doc had me on an exercise bike 10 days after the surgery and recommended I take up biking which I did. Best thing ever for strengthening my knees.
I do wish I would have had stem cell therapy afterwards and also wish I would have researched meniscus surgery more beforehand.

Check out this site for an alternative to traditional surgery. Wish I would have known about this before.

The Stone Clinic: World-Class Orthopaedic Surgery & Rehabilitation

Avoid a total knee replacement by rebuilding your joints with biologic procedures such as meniscus transplant, articular cartilage regeneration using stem cells, ACL reconstruction

www.stoneclinic.com

 

[Turkeygetpwnd38]

Just to give anyone hope that needs it, my dad had bilateral knee replacement at 60, he is 63 now. The past two years we have hit it pretty hard and he is pain free. Did a 40 mile week in the Uintas, several pack in bear hunts in SW MT, a week of moose hunting in the Canadian bush bogs. Before the replacement, his pain was so bad he could barely sleep after a day of being on his feet in any capacity.
A little off topic but just wanted to show they can do some amazing things now days. He wishes he did it years sooner and says it’s the best decision he’s every made. So if your knee gets past saving, get a new one!

 

[mi650]

I'll try to keep it short: 2 meniscus repairs on my right knee lead to a replacement. I'd say I have about 50% movement. Granted, I'd probably be better off if my PT hadn't been cut short due to Covid. I've been told I have a tear in my left meniscus, and am putting off surgery as long as I can.

My wife also had 2 repairs on her left knee. Had it replaced, and it's been all downhill from there. She's now had 5 replacements, 11 total surgeries so far, currently has a medicated spacer in there, and just finished up 6 weeks of vanco due to picking up a nasty MRSA infection. She has at least 1 more surgery to look forward to, to remove the spacer and put in another knee. This is provided the MRSA is cleared up, which they won't know until they get her in the OR.

All of that to say put it off as long as you can.

 

[mi650]

@Kevin Dill
I had 50% of my medial meniscus removed 3 years ago and so far am still going strong in the backcountry. My doc had me on an exercise bike 10 days after the surgery and recommended I take up biking which I did. Best thing ever for strengthening my knees.
I do wish I would have had stem cell therapy afterwards and also wish I would have researched meniscus surgery more beforehand.

Check out this site for an alternative to traditional surgery. Wish I would have known about this before.

The Stone Clinic: World-Class Orthopaedic Surgery & Rehabilitation

Avoid a total knee replacement by rebuilding your joints with biologic procedures such as meniscus transplant, articular cartilage regeneration using stem cells, ACL reconstruction

www.stoneclinic.com

The ortho who did our meniscus repairs is supposed to be one of the pioneers in stem cell treatments for knees. He said my wife was a good candidate for it. $6k out of pocket. The doc who did my replacement, arguably the best in the state, stopped just short of calling him a snake oil salesman. I'm honestly not sure what to think.

 

[gelton]

Tore my MCL playing football as a senior in high school. Out for 6 weeks, after plenty of PT, I was able to return for the last two weeks of the season, but the muscle memory just wasn't there and it took me a game and a week of practice at full speed to begin to feel normal again with certain movements.

I didn't have surgery and it wasn't recommended for that type of injury at the time and it is fine to this day.

On the other hand, I also had a severe neck injury during the same year that turned out to be much more serious. Two years later I had an MRI and had seriously herniated discs in my neck. 15 years of pain and medication later, I decided to get it fixed and it was the best choice I could have made. Putting off necessary surgeries only prolongs the pain.

 

[StacheNGuns]

I’ve had multiple injuries where surgeries were recommended, but I held off. I’ve torn my rotator cuff, and almost went the surgical route after struggling with pain over a year, but coming up on two years post injury, it’s healed to the point where I can shoot my bow & do overhead work with only minor discomfort & no major strength loss.

I had a meniscal issue that prevented me from squatting and would hurt going up stairs. I stubbornly refused to get imaging done. It healed within a year’s timeframe.

I currently have a fractured displaced lumbar vertebrae that orthos have recommended fusion surgery. I suspect I’ve had it for years, and have managed to keep the pain at bay through physical fitness and strength training. I suspect that this injury may catch up to me yet, but im amazed at how capable my body has been at working around the injury to allow me to perform at a high level physically.

Granted, Im in my mid thirties and take my physical fitness very seriously. But I don’t judge anyone who chooses the surgical route. I’m no orthopedic surgeon either, so I may just be blowing off hot air, but IMHO in the past surgery was recommended way too early post injury, with many of these procedures resulting in outcomes that were not that much better off than those who chose to rehab via physical therapy and good old fashioned physical fitness training.

 

[cuerro viejo]

Happy to explain your MRI results if you want. Shoot me a PM and I give you my phone number. I am an Orthopedic Surgeon in MI and ironically sitting icing my knee from a lateral meniscus tear I had fixed yesterday that I tore on an Alaskan goat hunt.

Game ready is a great machine , if you haven’t had a rep show you one I would. I bought one for home use. My last ankle surgery, that machine was about the only thing to get me through IMO

 

[cod007]

The ortho who did our meniscus repairs is supposed to be one of the pioneers in stem cell treatments for knees. He said my wife was a good candidate for it. $6k out of pocket. The doc who did my replacement, arguably the best in the state, stopped just short of calling him a snake oil salesman. I'm honestly not sure what to think.

What state are u in? I have a feeling about a certain Dr that told me I need my knee replaced.

 

[BadDogPSD]

The doc who did my replacement, arguably the best in the state, stopped just short of calling him a snake oil salesman. I'm honestly not sure what to think.

I think people tend to mock what they don't understand. Stem cell treatments are a big thing amongst professional athletes in the US, and much more understood and accepted in the EU & UK.
Big pharma & insurance have WAY to much power & control in the US.

 

[mi650]

I think people tend to mock what they don't understand. Stem cell treatments are a big thing amongst professional athletes in the US, and much more understood and accepted in the EU & UK.
Big pharma & insurance have WAY to much power & control in the US.

I absolutely agree with this.

This same doc told my wife she needed a replacement, but he wouldn't do it until she was 60. She had just turned 50 at the time.

 

[mi650]

What state are u in? I have a feeling about a certain Dr that told me I need my knee replaced.

Michigan. We have experience with a few different orthos.

 

[Kevin Dill]

UPDATE:

January 20: Knee surgery this day. The past many weeks have been on-and-off hell for pain. Lots of sleepless nights and limping most of the time. As my surgery date neared it became very clear that I needed surgical intervention. My gait, walking, sitting and sleeping positions have been affected to the point of having hip and other muscular pain. I literally was looking forward to surgery.

Everything went exactly according to plan. Arthroscopic surgery is not necessarily painless but it is far less invasive than traditional 'open' surgeries. I have not spoken with my surgeon post-operatively yet, so I don';t know how much meniscus...if any...was saved. I really don't care either, as I have complete trust. He knew the importance of my lifestyles and activity needs. If the entire meniscus is gone, that's just what had to happen. I recall my RN indicating this was not the case, so I'm hopeful. I walked into the clinic at 7:30 and rolled out at 10:30.

Now 24 hours later.....

I'm on crutches with weight bearing as tolerated. My previous 5-9:10 pain went immediately to a 2-3 and today is 1-2. I actually slept last night without being constantly at war with a painful knee. It was wonderful. My leg is wrapped from ankle to thigh which is annoying, but that's nothing. I'm ice-bagging my knee as directed. I'm sure I'll be tossing the crutches tomorrow or the next day. No stairs or load carrying for a couple weeks. I've taken NO pain meds of any kind since surgery. The last time I was under anesthesia for surgery was 52 years ago. I've made it over half a century without needing anything done, and I call that remarkable...and somewhat lucky.

I wanted to share this update and my outcome for anyone who might search a nd find this thread somewhere downstream. Thanks. KD