Rokslide Special 223 recipe

[hunterjmj]

Shamefully, I haven’t reloaded yet. I ran out of time and money to buy the equipment. I found that Hornady Black that shoots 75BTHP less than 1.2 MOA and it’s cheap, so I’ve been shooting that until I actually start reloading.

It's spendy to get started. Thankfully I have a press and a bunch of other stuff otherwise I'd be in the same boat. Just getting geared up to hand load a new cartridge isn't cheap. It's way cheaper than my 300wm though.

 

[wind gypsy]

Perhaps, but I'm not going to mess with it. VV N135 and N150 both give good velocity and shoot better in my rifle, as well as burning cleaner.

I also got pretty low velocity from H4895, so have to wonder if the pressure curve of those two powders work better with longer barrels.

I burned up the pound of AA2495 for target practice. The H4895 is being used for low velocity loads.

What charge weights, brass, bullet combo did you try with h4895? I've found it to be about tops for velocity as far as single base powders go with heavies.

 

[fshaw]

3rd groups on their own show little. 3rd groups using the same type of point of aim so you can generally overlay them tells you something more useful. Realistically he has a 12shot group on that target spanning 1.1gr of powder charge that all shot well as an aggregate within 1 square. I find that statistically relevant during load development.

I’d use that data to confidently load up 10+ rounds in the 24-24.3 range to validate now.

If he had a single good 3shot or their point of impacts varied relative to each other then I agree it’s not very useful.

Everyone does load development a bit differently but I find 3-4 shot groups quite useful. Right now I’m developing a hunting load for the 75gr Speer Gold Dot in my .223 Montana. These bullets are extremely hard to find so I want to conserve what I have. I’m working with 5 powders. In 4 shot groups at .5gr intervals I can shoot 4 (or 3) shot groups and tell immediately if that powder charge, for that bullet is going to be useful. Testing 10 loads with 4 shot groups I saved 10 bullets. That’s a couple of hunting seasons if I do my part (2 deer per season if I draw a doe tag.

Yesterday I eliminated 3 powders and found 3 loads that are near minute of angle shooting only 40 rounds. Today I’ll pick my load shooting those best 3 loads to eliminate shooter error. I can see shooting large groups (10-30 rounds) to determine ultimate accuracy potential for long range shooters. After today if I miss a deer at 200 yards or less (99% of my hunting in the Adirondacks), it’s the Indian, not the arrow.

The practice I really need is field position shooting, even though I love shooting off a bench. This type of load development won’t keep me from reaching my full potential. I’ll do that shooting with cheap bullets and older components using loads developed the same way.

My method might not be statistically significant, but I eat a lot of venison.

I hope you all have a successful hunting season.

Frank

 

[Marbles]

What charge weights, brass, bullet combo did you try with h4895? I've found it to be about tops for velocity as far as single base powders go with heavies.

77 TMK
Fed 205
Starline brass
22 gr H4895


Same basic load, but using AA2495


I tried both H4895 and AA2495 on the same day, the H4895 is not as bad as I remember, but in the same conditions I was getting over 2600 fps from N135, N140, and N150.

 

[wind gypsy]

77 TMK
Fed 205
Starline brass
22 gr H4895
View attachment 768255

Same basic load, but using AA2495
View attachment 768256

I tried both H4895 and AA2495 on the same day, the H4895 is not as bad as I remember, but in the same conditions I was getting over 2600 fps from N135, N140, and N150.

I see. you're about 2 grains below where I'd expect to load h4895 to in ADI, Lapua, or LC brass. I could see staying a little lower in starline brass and at tikka mag length though.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

Everyone does load development a bit differently but I find 3-4 shot groups quite useful. Right now I’m developing a hunting load for the 75gr Speer Gold Dot in my .223 Montana. These bullets are extremely hard to find so I want to conserve what I have. I’m working with 5 powders. In 4 shot groups at .5gr intervals I can shoot 4 (or 3) shot groups and tell immediately if that powder charge, for that bullet is going to be useful. Testing 10 loads with 4 shot groups I saved 10 bullets. That’s a couple of hunting seasons if I do my part (2 deer per season if I draw a doe tag.

Yesterday I eliminated 3 powders and found 3 loads that are near minute of angle shooting only 40 rounds. Today I’ll pick my load shooting those best 3 loads to eliminate shooter error. I can see shooting large groups (10-30 rounds) to determine ultimate accuracy potential for long range shooters. After today if I miss a deer at 200 yards or less (99% of my hunting in the Adirondacks), it’s the Indian, not the arrow.

The practice I really need is field position shooting, even though I love shooting off a bench. This type of load development won’t keep me from reaching my full potential. I’ll do that shooting with cheap bullets and older components using loads developed the same way.

My method might not be statistically significant, but I eat a lot of venison.

I hope you all have a successful hunting season.

Frank

I think smaller groups are good for eliminating options quickly, IE if 3 rounds shoots 2-3" pattern there is no point shooting more! When folks talk about 3shot groups being of little use its in the positive direction when cherry picking. If a 3 shot of X charge shoots 3", 3 shot of X+.5gr shoots 1/2", and a 3 shoot of X+1gr shoots 3" and someone goes "Wow X+.5gr is a 1/2MOA!!!!" when the probability is those happened to land close but aren't repeatable.

That's all.

Yes we all do it different. I shoot a single shot velocity ladder on new combinations looking for pressure, but I also pay attention to where those shots are hitting the target. If they're a shot gun pattern on the target then chances are that combo at that seating depth isn't gonna work for me. If 5+ shots in a row across a varying powder charge stack up at 1" (esp. at a velocity I like and pressure is good) then I'm going to use that info to test a larger group of shots in that charge window.

 

[fshaw]

I think smaller groups are good for eliminating options quickly, IE if 3 rounds shoots 2-3" pattern there is no point shooting more! When folks talk about 3shot groups being of little use its in the positive direction when cherry picking. If a 3 shot of X charge shoots 3", 3 shot of X+.5gr shoots 1/2", and a 3 shoot of X+1gr shoots 3" and someone goes "Wow X+.5gr is a 1/2MOA!!!!" when the probability is those happened to land close but aren't repeatable.

That's all.

Yes we all do it different. I shoot a single shot velocity ladder on new combinations looking for pressure, but I also pay attention to where those shots are hitting the target. If they're a shot gun pattern on the target then chances are that combo at that seating depth isn't gonna work for me. If 5+ shots in a row across a varying powder charge stack up at 1" (esp. at a velocity I like and pressure is good) then I'm going to use that info to test a larger group of shots in that charge window.

I certainly understand your process and I’m sure it’s effective. As a sub 200 yard hunter I have never owned a chronograph. For the way I hunt I see little value in them, but that’s for me. In reality, the vast majority of deer shot in the Adirondacks are taken at less than 100 yards, usually less than 75. Velocity isn‘t a prime driver for me.

After many years of shooting and reloading I find it quite rare for 3 bullets to land in a group of .5” unless the load is likely to be accurate for that gun. Could happen, but pretty rare. If the group did end up being at 1.5” consistently instead of .5”, that’s still 3” at 200. Misses and very poor hits are still typically the Indian, not the arrow in that situation. As Form, and Hall Blood, and lots of others recommend, I’d rather use the components to practice shooting from field positions. I have to force myself to do this because I like the challenge of shooting small groups like many others.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

Yeah its a whole different deal <200yd, doesn't require tight groups or even knowing the velocity, its point and shoot distance. Load development and validating ballistics isn't needed so practice practice practice as you (and others) have noted.

 

[fshaw]

Yeah its a whole different deal <200yd, doesn't require tight groups or even knowing the velocity, its point and shoot distance. Load development and validating ballistics isn't needed so practice practice practice as you (and others) have noted.

I think you misunderstand the type of shooting required in a dense forest, hardly point and shoot. Target may be obscured at 100yards except for a softball sized or smaller area. I haven’t found them to stand around in the wide open too often. I think the practice, practice, practice is absolutely sound. Maybe even more so for hunters with little experience shooting at the distances they’re attempting. Likely even more so for them. Have a great season.

 

[SloppyJ]

What sort of COAL are yall loading 77tmks to? I loaded them mag length with different charges of varget and havent found much yet. Didnt know if anyone is having better luck jumping them even more. Im half tempted to get a waters mag to load them out more.

 

[Marbles]

What sort of COAL are yall loading 77tmks to? I loaded them mag length with different charges of varget and havent found much yet. Didnt know if anyone is having better luck jumping them even more. Im half tempted to get a waters mag to load them out more.

Factory mag length for me.

 

[Lawnboi]

What sort of COAL are yall loading 77tmks to? I loaded them mag length with different charges of varget and havent found much yet. Didnt know if anyone is having better luck jumping them even more. Im half tempted to get a waters mag to load them out more.

Nothing wrong with factory mag length or varget, except when combined.

You won’t get enough varget in the case with that much bullet in there. Even loaded to the rifling, in a factory tikka barrel you’re still limited on speed with varget, though it is better. On top of that highly compressed powder columns are a bastard on any consistency ime.

A faster powder like benchmark or xbr is what I would first try.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

Nothing wrong with factory mag length or varget, except when combined.

You won’t get enough varget in the case with that much bullet in there. Even loaded to the rifling, in a factory tikka barrel you’re still limited on speed with varget, though it is better. On top of that highly compressed powder columns are a bastard on any consistency ime.

A faster powder like benchmark or xbr is what I would first try.

Do you happen to know if that is the same issue with the 73eldm and varget? I got a fair bit of varget.

Anyone messed around with stabal match?

 

[Lawnboi]

Do you happen to know if that is the same issue with the 73eldm and varget? I got a fair bit of varget.

Anyone messed around with stabal match?

You will run into the same issue. Any of the 70 some grain bullets at mag length have a crap load of bullet in the case, and varget needs 24+ grains to reach a velocity that stuff like xbr does in 23.

Varget shoots well, and if you’re okay with a load 100fps slower than comparable loads with faster powder it’s fine. Just be careful on compressing it too much. No pressure concerns but seating depths will be all over. You can see a lot of it in the 223 thread where guys are pushing so hard on the powder column that it’s creating a ring around the tip of the bullet.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

You will run into the same issue. Any of the 70 some grain bullets at mag length have a crap load of bullet in the case, and varget needs 24+ grains to reach a velocity that stuff like xbr does in 23.

Varget shoots well, and if you’re okay with a load 100fps slower than comparable loads with faster powder it’s fine. Just be careful on compressing it too much. No pressure concerns but seating depths will be all over. You can see a lot of it in the 223 thread where guys are pushing so hard on the powder column that it’s creating a ring around the tip of the bullet.

I'll be loading for target shooting (can't hunt 223 here) so a little less velocity isn't the end of the world since I'm not chasing impact velocity needs.

 

[Lawnboi]

I'll be loading for target shooting (can't hunt 223 here) so a little less velocity isn't the end of the world since I'm not chasing impact velocity needs.

Varget will work good then. Chances are you won’t be able to put enough of it in to make any pressure. As much as you can before the crunch of the powder is too much should do well.