Rich Man's Sport

[Yoder]

Maybe we can have an honest conversation about tag allocation when we stop comparing hunting an animal with a population density of 15-25 per square mile to an animal with a population density of less than 1 per square mile. I know plenty of guys that hunt whitetails very successfully and selective on 5 acres or less.

Grateful is a poor choice of words. Noone is born with lead in their shoes. Everyone is free to make a priority list and move to wherever they feel best suits them. I guess I am grateful God gave me the stones to leave the nest for a place with better opportunities that align with my priorities.

Hard pass on stepping foot east of the Mississippi. You don't have to convince us that it sucks. We know it sucks, that's why we choose not to live there.....

How many people kill a ram like the one in your avatar? How many run of the mill whitetails would a guy pass up to shoot something like that? Those opportunities don't exist in many places. Many of you live there and are complaining about it. I read about how you have to go ten miles back to see anything. You can't go ten miles back anywhere except maybe in Maine. I'm not complaining and I'm certainly not saying you get to do that and I don't. I could do it if I make different life choices. You made those choices and it's awesome you did. I really mean that, I'm not being a smart ass. It's just difficult to hear people complain about places that are literally only a dream to a lot of people.

 

[SDHNTR]

How many people kill a ram like the one in your avatar? How many run of the mill whitetails would a guy pass up to shoot something like that? Those opportunities don't exist in many places. Many of you live there and are complaining about it. I read about how you have to go ten miles back to see anything. You can't go ten miles back anywhere except maybe in Maine. I'm not complaining and I'm certainly not saying you get to do that and I don't. I could do it if I make different life choices. You made those choices and it's awesome you did. I really mean that, I'm not being a smart ass. It's just difficult to hear people complain about places that are literally only a dream to a lot of people.

Only a dream? Give me a break. I call BS. It’s not a dream, it’s an easily, too easily, achievable reality. You just need to have the desire and an internet connection. Good ol Randy Newberg and goHunt and OnX will all tell you exactly how it’s done in just a few clicks. It’s not even hard anymore! Hence the problem!

 

[Billy Goat]

My experience is that on paper they are rich, and they'd be richer if they sold everything and bought the S&P 500.

It's called land rich and dirt poor.

 

[cmahoney]

This nails it.

Enjoy your whitetails. We don’t want them here either.

You better chill out, you might not get any help on here planning your trip out east.


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[dirtytough]

It’s not a dream, it’s an easily, too easily, achievable reality. It’s not even hard anymore! Hence the problem!

Agreed! It’s so easy even a 10 year old can do it!

 

[HuntHarder]

I agree with the OP, Hunting in general is becoming more and more of a Rich man's sport. Access is getting harder to obtain and almost certainly requires $$$. When I was younger, I used to offer to burn weeds, post up no trespassing signs, pick up trash, whatever I could to gain access to land to hunt ducks in AZ. Those days are long gone. A couple of outfits moved in, offered the farmer's $$$ and I lost my access. I understand the farmer's decision, but at the end of the day, money talks.

Hunting out of state is becoming more and more expensive, the points game is getting more and more expensive, even for residents. Catching point creep is damn near impossible in some of the better hunts. I know guys who sell their points here in AZ and then turn their tag back in. You can only do it once per species, but a few guys I know made a pretty penny.

Not a whole lot we can do tho, it will continue to get worse so I will just keep on keeping on and hunt my ass off.

 

[cmahoney]

How many people kill a ram like the one in your avatar? How many run of the mill whitetails would a guy pass up to shoot something like that? Those opportunities don't exist in many places. Many of you live there and are complaining about it. I read about how you have to go ten miles back to see anything. You can't go ten miles back anywhere except maybe in Maine. I'm not complaining and I'm certainly not saying you get to do that and I don't. I could do it if I make different life choices. You made those choices and it's awesome you did. I really mean that, I'm not being a smart ass. It's just difficult to hear people complain about places that are literally only a dream to a lot of people.

What gets old is people comparing white tails to the limited number of animals and habitat we have.


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[Dos Perros]

Wait, are the western guys telling the eastern guys to grow some grapes and move out west, and then also complaining about all the new people moving to their state?

 

[SoloWilderness]

I think they mean move to Oregon and Washington. There are no elk left in the Rockies.

 

[cmahoney]

Wait, are the western guys telling the eastern guys to grow some grapes and move out west, and then also complaining about all the new people moving to their state?

Yes, California is loosing tax payers every day and the fall bear hunting is top notch.


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[cuerro viejo]

Guys,

I'm really struggling with where hunting is going. Western Hunting, in particular, is quickly becoming a rich man's game. Do you know that in the state of Texas - you can almost not afford to hunt if you are a low income household. Between the lack of public land, cost of private land, and insane lease prices - it's absolutely a rich man's sport. And im not talking about for places to kill giants. Where I live, 5K/gun will get you a lease where you are allowed one whitetail that will score 135-150. As tag prices across states with public land quickly rise, I fear for my kids opportunities. They shouldn't have to move to a western state to be able to afford to hunt.

Where have gone the days of hunting with brothers and fathers and not having to spend a life savings to do so. Is that not getting ridiculous. To harvest food that is God-given to our society to cherish as nutrition yet is it carries the price tag of a Kings table fare. What are we going to do to slow this madness? What are possible solutions?

my applications alone out west cost more then my TX lease.

Texas was deeded well before the west even hit statehood.

$3k for year round recreation, fishing and hunting on 11k acres. MLD with unlimited does and culls for kids, so a 4-5 month season. we dont have giant deer but who cares we have lots of animals to hunt. tons of dove, quail, ducks, turkeys and cranes

there is over a million acres of public hunting in TX with much of it only needing $49 public use permit.

I find it funny, someone will drive 12 hrs to another state, buy a 700 plus tag plus 2k in gear and then complain about TX public. That is just lazy.

I hunt public for monsters(170” plus), and use the lease for the kids, since it has way more opportunity then my own place.

not trying to be unsympathetic but I own a sizable ranch/farm with very limited numbers of MD and WT’s and I lease and hunt public.

 

[eye_zick]

Thanks for clarifying, I found that stat on another website and it didn't include the qualifiers. It is interesting when delving into the numbers that non-resident preference point fees make up 21% of license revenue which speaks to the point I had previously made.

When one looks at where the ~$32M in non-license dollars come from, it looks like an even larger majority of that is directly or indirectly funded by non-residents. Federal Aid such as PR/DJ ($19.4M), grants ($6.4M), interest ($2.7M), and other ($3.7M).

As I stated previously, a number of western states have a very high degree reliance on non-residents for their funding, so they have to strike a delicate balance if they want to keep those dollars flowing in for the benefit of residents.

I am opposed to any arguments of NR hunters being needed based on dollars or revenue, because I am equally against the antithesis of that argument - that we could get rid of all NR hunters if we increased the cost of resident tags to retain an equal level of revenue. Not because I wouldnt pay more for a tag, but avoids the conversation that we need to have - supply vs demand and the future of hunting.

 

[SDHNTR]

I am opposed to any arguments of NR hunters being needed based on dollars or revenue, because I am equally against the antithesis of that argument - that we could get rid of all NR hunters if we increased the cost of resident tags to retain an equal level of revenue. Not because I wouldnt pay more for a tag, but avoids the conversation that we need to have - supply vs demand and the future of hunting.

The future of hunting is not secured by just recruiting more hunters! We don’t need more. We have plenty! Too many. That’s obvious when you look at any Western trailhead in October on public land, or when you examine the increased difficulty of drawing tags. The future of hunting is secured by hunters who care and who get involved with habitat and conservation improvements. Unfortunately, those are not the types being recruited to our ranks by the litany of jackasses on social media. We don’t need more takers just for the sake of adding hunter numbers. We don’t need more demand! What we need is more supply (wildlife). If you don’t do something to contribute to that supply, you don’t deserve to be part of the demand!

 

[Where's Bruce?]

I am opposed to any arguments of NR hunters being needed based on dollars or revenue, because I am equally against the antithesis of that argument - that we could get rid of all NR hunters if we increased the cost of resident tags to retain an equal level of revenue. Not because I wouldnt pay more for a tag, but avoids the conversation that we need to have - supply vs demand and the future of hunting.

NR hunting tags are essential...not just for the significant revenue but because all Americans should be able to hunt all the states. Hunting will never be treated like a product-based business (supply & demand) because hunting is the very management tool used to guarantee continued supply. Demand will always exceed supply.

 

[Fatcamp]

Big game may be becoming a rich man's sport, but small game on management areas can still be done economically. Unfortunately, the traditions of squirrel and rabbit hunting are not as cool as big game.

I sctually cringe when I see people post their 9yo with big game animals and no mention of small game hunting. As a kid those small game hunts were big adventure, and for young hunters to miss out is a shame.

 

[wapitibob]

It varies from state to state, but my sense is there is a balance that needs to be struck. My point was that NR participation and keeping R fees low are linked and not one or the other.

I saw something online that WY under 80/20 received ~77% of its revenue from non-resident hunters. It will be very interesting to see how WY's budget changes in the coming years given the shift to 90/10 for some specifies and the expected change from preference to bonus points which will disenfranchise many who have been in the PP game for a long time. Will those changes precipitate a future increase in R tag/license fees to replace lost NR revenue?

WY gets 77% of its license revenue from nr. Total dept revenue was just over 50%.

 

[wapitibob]

I sctually cringe when I see people post their 9yo with big game animals and no mention of small game hunting. As a kid those small game hunts were big adventure, and for young hunters to miss out is a shame.

We shot the crap out of quail and jack rabbits as kids. That’s where we learned to get setup on animals quick and get the shot off. Todays kids learn off the shooting bench.

 

[Nick992]

It's definitely expensive, and I fear for future generations in many ways.

If your concerns are truly for sustenance, hunt invasive species. Hogs are everywhere; Nilgai in Texas are becoming a problem; farmers want them gone; you could be the solution.

 

[bsnedeker]

If your concerns are truly for sustenance, hunt invasive species. Hogs are everywhere; Nilgai in Texas are becoming a problem; farmers want them gone; you could be the solution.

Lol....and these farmers are so concerned they are letting people onto their property to hunt them for free right?

 

[GSPHUNTER]

Lol....and these farmers are so concerned they are letting people onto their property to hunt them for free right?

You could be a stand up comedian...