Rich Man's Sport

[ddd-shooter]

I, personally, don't have access issues. I personally lease 20,000 acres myself just to take friends who can't afford it or don't have the opportunity. That's where I'm seeing the issues. I know so many families that don't have the opportunity and quite never will unless someone looks out for them.

Looked up 4progeny yet?
Are you a member of a non profit who supports access?

 

[Fatcamp]

WY could charge considerably more for NR tags and not have any issue selling them out.

Maybe. But they are about to price me out. When a couple deer tags equal a new outboard or week in Louisiana I'm gonna struggle with that decision.

 

[Kansas Bound]

Duck hunting around here is the same way

 

[KurtR]

Living in Idaho I see desperate out of state hunters poor in every year just for the chance to hunt. I don't blame you I would go where the access is too. Unfortunately for us residents we're seeing the decline in hunting success and quality. Lots of people and competition anymore. It's glaringly obvious that people are loosing access. It's a sad obvious truth. I'm going to enjoy hunting while it lasts and hopefully have a few memories with my kids. I'm more focused on enjoying my time outdoors, making memories with the family, and to harvest an animal is merely a bonus. And yes hunting is becoming more and more A RICH MANS sport! It's a ball of unfortunate that gets bigger every year.

Or is that a resident problem since the nr tag allocation hasn’t changed for years. While the resident population has exploded

 

[4BarN]

Do you believe you have a right to the energy and fuel produced by another state at a reasonable rate?

I think this comment needs some further discussion. Natural resources are natural resources. It could be deer, elk, sheep, oil, gas, uranium or whatever. Why should one group be penalized more so than another just because you live in a certain state? This goes back to the old resident and nonresident allocations and fees arguments. This will be a hot topic but is a valid argument. I live in Texas. We have an abundance of oil and gas. If you live in a state without this resource, based on some of these comments, shouldn’t you be required and willing to pay more for the resource?


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[Crusader]

I was going to comment I could never picture paying 5k for a lease when public is free…but I bet if you added it up over a season a lot of us aren’t far off even if we hunt public.

By the end of this hunting season (deer, duck, turkey) I’ll have easily spent 2k on fuel (truck and boat), 1k on licenses in 3 states, couple hundred at the range, hunting north of Florida I needed an actual winter jacket. So probably $3500 all in, not counting the boat I picked up for duck hunting and that opens up additional public for deer and turkey.

Boils down to $700/lb of meat for me this year so far (again, not counting boat). Hopefully number is a little better after turkey season.

I’d say it already is a rich man’s game.

I know a lot of broke guys that hunt, but I don’t know any making small paychecks.

You only ended up with 5 pounds of meat so far this season?
Or did you mean your cost so far is $7/lb of meat?

 

[MallardSX2]

Hunting out of state has certainly become a costly and sometimes frustrating endeavor for sure.

Never realized how good I had it in PA until I moved to the south. Hunting in my home state (GA) is pretty affordable as long as you don't have aspirations of 150" deer. If I didn't have a lease and still wanted to go sit in a tree stand on some public and shoot a few small bucks and does and fill the freezer, then I would be able to accomplish that. The public hunting is just not very good down here but there are still a lot of options if you are willing to get out and try them.

 

[schmalzy]

Looked up 4progeny yet?
Are you a member of a non profit who supports access?

I’ve always said if I won the lottery that I’d put 90% of it into something like this. I haven’t vetted them yet but I’m definitely into buying land and turning it public, even if it’s just a long term lease.


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[cmahoney]

My God am I sick of you western state guys whining about too many hunters and access to land. Hunt PA,WI or MI. We probably have half the land and 5x more hunters. We pretty much get to hunt whitetails. No moose, elk, mule deer or antelope. You've had what, 4 or 5 years of hunting pressure. It's been a lifetime here. Most of you live in areas people only dream of hunting. I see your photos of the landscape and it is amazing. You guys should come east next year. Hunt PA,NJ,MD. Once you see how much that sucks compared to your home state, you'll be grateful.

Sounds like a solid plan for next year, thanks for the heads up on those spots.


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[Dos Perros]

If you're from an eastern state and you have too little access to hunting land then your state government is failing you. In Kansas, something like 97% private land, the state has leased over 1 million acres for public hunting. It's not the best, but some of it is very good.

I married a girl who's family farms thousands of acres in central Kansas and I still hunt the public because the farm is for the kids that decided to stay and farm. They kill 190" deer every once in a while too. I privately grumble but I don't publicly complain because I have the WIHA to hunt.

 

[PA farmboy]

Sounds like a solid plan for next year, thanks for the heads up on those spots.


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Be our guest! Haven't ever heard any of my buddies or I complaining about out of staters. Public land is public land, available to anyone with a license. Don't feel entitled to it belonging to residents only.

 

[Pdzoller]

Quit supporting the YouTube and insta hunters and the companies that support them and quit glorifying western hunting and we wouldn’t be in this mess but this is a good place to start then look at access

I’m relying on the topography. I can’t count how many out of state people I’ve seen with a look of total defeat once they get an actual taste of reality in the “backcountry”. I kinda feel sad for them and their romanticized dreams as I watch them drive around on overcrowded roads because they can’t physically make it.

 

[Huntin Fool]

I think this comment needs some further discussion. Natural resources are natural resources. It could be deer, elk, sheep, oil, gas, uranium or whatever. Why should one group be penalized more so than another just because you live in a certain state? This goes back to the old resident and nonresident allocations and fees arguments. This will be a hot topic but is a valid argument. I live in Texas. We have an abundance of oil and gas. If you live in a state without this resource, based on some of these comments, shouldn’t you be required and willing to pay more for the resource?


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Yeah you should be required to pay more for those resources as your state doesn’t own them. Just like if you’re a non resident you should have to pay more to go hunt in a different state and have less opportunities to do so

 

[Overdrive]

Hunting is an expensive hobby.

I hunt/guide a lot in the fall and buy what I need too, but it's stuff that makes me money. I don't drive a new vehicle, and the only reason I buy any new gear yearly it's because I get discounts (30-50% off) at certain sporting goods outlets and it saves me thousands of dollars. I've used the same hunting clothes for years and don't need all the latest and greatest to make my hunts and guide trips a success.

I don't drink alcohol, or use tobacco saving me lot's over the year

I don't drive my vehicles much other than the fall/winter months, I probably put on less than 5000 miles a year


Choose wisely and be happy with your choice, I'm not one for complaining about the choices I make.

 

[GSPHUNTER]

I do what I consider a budget Elk hunt in NM on the reservation. I drive 14 hours +- with a stop after 8 hours and spend the night in hotel, same thing on trip home. After everything is added up, lodging, tag, guide fee-tip, food, gas, misc. the hunt/trip runs around $3000 give or take. Not terrible, but still not a drop in the bucket. The one thing I will say is, these trips are generally successful, 4 trips, 3 cow elk.

 

[CorbLand]

I think this comment needs some further discussion. Natural resources are natural resources. It could be deer, elk, sheep, oil, gas, uranium or whatever. Why should one group be penalized more so than another just because you live in a certain state? This goes back to the old resident and nonresident allocations and fees arguments. This will be a hot topic but is a valid argument. I live in Texas. We have an abundance of oil and gas. If you live in a state without this resource, based on some of these comments, shouldn’t you be required and willing to pay more for the resource?


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We do pay more for oil than states that have it. The cheapest fuel I have seen in the last 4 years was in Texas. When many of us up north were paying 4.50 plus a gallon, the south was in the low 3.00s.

How is that no income tax in Texas? How are you housing prices compared to western states?

The states manage the wildlife and states owe nothing to people that are not residents of them. In order for it to be equal across the board, the Federal Government would have to step in and take control and if you think that is a good idea, the conversation can end there.

Western states have written the book on how to give the shaft to NR. They have written the book on how to make the most complicated tag allocation process. I agree that I wish they would stop pounding NR into the ground but they can do it and will continue to do it until people stop paying. Even with the increased costs, we still see record number of applicants.

 

[jayhawk]

It’s just a mess like the rest of society.

Hunting leases create hunting class divisions, social media driving the market, public land hunted out due to overpressure, OnX leading people to previously quiet areas.

It’s all changing.

 

[Customweld]

My God am I sick of you western state guys whining about too many hunters and access to land. Hunt PA,WI or MI. We probably have half the land and 5x more hunters. We pretty much get to hunt whitetails. No moose, elk, mule deer or antelope. You've had what, 4 or 5 years of hunting pressure. It's been a lifetime here. Most of you live in areas people only dream of hunting. I see your photos of the landscape and it is amazing. You guys should come east next year. Hunt PA,NJ,MD. Once you see how much that sucks compared to your home state, you'll be grateful.

It truly is amazing! I am thankful for living where I can get off work, drive half an hour and hunt elk for the last 2 hours of the day. Every day of the season if I choose. Idaho has certainly seen an increase in hunting pressure. Albeit not so much from NR, those quotas have been set for many years. Hunting participation has only increased around 7 percent in the last 10 years. As for a rich man's sport, everything seems to cost more thee days.

 

[william schmaltz]

My God am I sick of you western state guys whining about too many hunters and access to land. Hunt PA,WI or MI. We probably have half the land and 5x more hunters. We pretty much get to hunt whitetails. No moose, elk, mule deer or antelope. You've had what, 4 or 5 years of hunting pressure. It's been a lifetime here. Most of you live in areas people only dream of hunting. I see your photos of the landscape and it is amazing. You guys should come east next year. Hunt PA,NJ,MD. Once you see how much that sucks compared to your home state, you'll be grateful.

Maybe we can have an honest conversation about tag allocation when we stop comparing hunting an animal with a population density of 15-25 per square mile to an animal with a population density of less than 1 per square mile. I know plenty of guys that hunt whitetails very successfully and selective on 5 acres or less.

Grateful is a poor choice of words. Noone is born with lead in their shoes. Everyone is free to make a priority list and move to wherever they feel best suits them. I guess I am grateful God gave me the stones to leave the nest for a place with better opportunities that align with my priorities.

Hard pass on stepping foot east of the Mississippi. You don't have to convince us that it sucks. We know it sucks, that's why we choose not to live there.....

 

[Pony Soldier]

I think originally the nonresident licenses were targeted for the outfitters in the back country. As the population increased and access increased, we started to see outfitters in direct competition with the locals. I'm told many of the eastern montana ranches are leased by nonresident outfitters that operate in multiple states.

We have gone from selling a surplus in a noncompetative market to creating a pissing contest in the woods - daily. When I started hunting 60 seasons ago I would see a nice 6x6 every year and would kill one about every 6 years. All of that with access from a two wheel drive pickup from my house.

Now I hunt the back country by horseback (45 days last year, 30 days this year). The last time I saw a 6x6 was 10 years ago. I haven't seen a buck in 15 years and the last I shot was 17 years ago.

I have been asked why I hunt the hard ground when there are easier places. That's easy - I'm not fond of crowds. Lining up for the race for the elk in the dark doesn't appeal to me.

From the nonresident point of view I have questions of sanity. The northwest corner of the state has very little left. Even locals leave to hunt. The middle has about a match for the local population. Southwest has better access and lots of elk if you can find them. Many make it to the ranches for the season. Eastern Montana is a challenge for access across private land. I know locals that can't get access to their cousins place.

There are some nice elk on big ranches south of great falls. You might get to kill a cow for a price but the older bulls are a banking affair. Bring lots of bucks you will need it.

So now you are down to the Elkhorns if you draw and can catch them before they get to the ranches on the east side.

I have had friends who hunted the breaks with a bow. When the pressure increases, the elk move across the river to the south on to the ranches. Access is cash or family.

For muley hunters, line up quick so you can kill the last one. Montana will be without cwd because they are working their way to no deer.

If I was a nonresident, I wouldn't touch the state with a stick.The opportunity to pay and then pay and finally pay some more just doesn't appeal to me. We are working our way up to counting coupe with paintball guns.