Rich Man's Sport

[cmahoney]

I think that's the point. CA manages for opportunity, which is what OP is complaining about. If OP just wants venison for cheap, without western style hunting, try archery in suburban New Jersey.

You also need to compare like-for-like. There are plenty of residents taking home forkie mule deer in the mountain states that we just never hear about, but are comparable to what we hear lots of guys taking in CA. That being said, all my buddies who put in the time scouting and do week-long backcountry hunts are rewarded with quality deer in OTC units, and carry and fill bear tags, too.

CA manages for revenue, I know there are good buck to be had if you really work for them, but the minim quality is sub par compared to other states. 2 tags is ridicules and those units have been mismanaged to the point they have diminished the opportunity.

Does CA still reevaluate every 3 years? Did they change any of those quotas after the massive fires burned half those units?

I’ll bet they would sell you 10,000 tags for a unit that had 0 deer on a survey.

I get what you are saying but I think CA has gone too far down the opportunity spectrum.

 

[Ikmclean]

I might be in the minority but I would like to see tag prices increase. As a WY resident tags are cheap. If it's going to be a rich man's sport I'd rather the money go to the state to fund access projects than just lining outfitter pockets.

 

[JjamesIII]

Guys,

I'm really struggling with where hunting is going. Western Hunting, in particular, is quickly becoming a rich man's game. Do you know that in the state of Texas - you can almost not afford to hunt if you are a low income household. Between the lack of public land, cost of private land, and insane lease prices - it's absolutely a rich man's sport. And im not talking about for places to kill giants. Where I live, 5K/gun will get you a lease where you are allowed one whitetail that will score 135-150. As tag prices across states with public land quickly rise, I fear for my kids opportunities. They shouldn't have to move to a western state to be able to afford to hunt.

Where have gone the days of hunting with brothers and fathers and not having to spend a life savings to do so. Is that not getting ridiculous. To harvest food that is God-given to our society to cherish as nutrition yet is it carries the price tag of a Kings table fare. What are we going to do to slow this madness? What are possible solutions?

Private land is a supply/demand proposition for the land owners. Yes it’s became a “rich man’s sport” in part, due to the stupid outfitters getting into bidding wars driving up the prices. Cost of doing business for them- but average Joe is sidelined. People are relegated to over crowded public land. It’s a blessing for the western guys to have so much land to roam. Public land access is definitely a right that should be exercised by all and aggressively protected because it’s all that many of us have. Don’t let people refer to it as a “privilege” because that infers it can arbitrarily be taken away. It’s YOUR land that you pay for- treat it well and cherish it and tune up anyone that abuses it.

 

[Rich M]

I have been saying that for years. The west has sat around and laughed at all the other states about the things that have happened or they have done. While we were laughing, the same things were happening to our state.

It’s going to be worse for western states when it comes to hunting. Western states simply do not have the animal populations nor are western animals as resilient as whitetails.

Regrettably, true.

The sooner they start managing the critters and not the hunters, the better.

 

[wind gypsy]

And im not talking about for places to kill giants. Where I live, 5K/gun will get you a lease where you are allowed one whitetail that will score 135-150.

That is a nice deer. Be happy to scrounge up a couple a decade that class if not leasing/owning land.

 

[roadrunner]

You believe you have a right to the game animals in another state at an affordable rate?

Do you believe you have a right to the energy and fuel produced by another state at a reasonable rate?

 

[BarCO]

Do you believe you have a right to the energy and fuel produced by another state at a reasonable rate?

It is all relative. WY probably helps will fuel costs but over have their state budget is funded by the federal government. It is one of the bigger welfare states for receiving more than it provides for example. So should the other 49 states get better pricing because they support much of WY’s needs? Look at AK, very similar. The list is long. There are few nanny states these days.

 

[Rich M]

It’s the way of the world. It’s not just hunting. You can either complain about it or you can work harder and smarter to find solutions.

Selfishly, I wish more people felt this way and would bow out of the game. Take up bowling. We need a pendulum swing.

I’m bowing out of the fiasco you call western hunting after an antelope hunt this fall. The squeeze aint worth the juice. I may go again, just not gonna stress or suffer to do it.

With the loss of hunters like myself, hunting loses active support.

Lotsa folks like OP. Either he is in early stages of career or he wishes stuff would be handed over freely. It is difficult in life when you see folks w more - more $, more free time, more this, more that. It always has been and always will be.

It is all relative. WY probably helps will fuel costs but over have their state budget is funded by the federal government. It is one of the bigger welfare states for receiving more than it provides for example. So should the other 49 states get better pricing because they support much of WY’s needs? Look at AK, very similar. The list is long. There are few nanny states these days.

All folks are saying is that we are a colkective of states, one nation. We should work together but some dinks think the animals are some prized possession. Like everything, they should be shared.

 

[JStol5]

Plus bears, pigs, plus lots of OTC opportunities in neighboring states, OTC elk in WA, etc...

Only problem with hunting pigs here is finding them on public…

 

[Rob5589]

Not trying to derail this disaster further but, the CA commission has recently proven themselves to be pro hunter. Crazy, I know. There are several proposals currently that are being looked at by the commission. More elk tags, second bear tag, and even a spring bear season, as well as others. If CA hunters really want these things to happen then please attend, virtually or in person, the commission meetings. You don't even need to speak, even just a large presence is very helpful. I would also recommend singing up at howlforwildlife.org to stay informed on not just CA issues. Here's the link to the 2023 commission meetings;

2023 Meetings

Official website of the California Fish and Game Commission

fgc.ca.gov

 

[Bubblehide]

CA manages for revenue, I know there are good buck to be had if you really work for them, but the minim quality is sub par compared to other states. 2 tags is ridicules and those units have been mismanaged to the point they have diminished the opportunity.

Does CA still reevaluate every 3 years? Did they change any of those quotas after the massive fires burned half those units?

I’ll bet they would sell you 10,000 tags for a unit that had 0 deer on a survey.

I get what you are saying but I think CA has gone too far down the opportunity spectrum.

Ca surveyed hunters years ago. The result was that most wanted the opportunity to hunt vs all zones being a draw system in which you would only draw every few years, thus only hunt deer every few years. At the time, F&G gave Ca hunters what they wanted' the opportunity to hunt every year.

Guys, keep in mind that the forest service manages our forests, not F&W. F&W has made many recommendations for land management over the years, that until recently, were ignored. Unfortunately, most of the land management practices of the past that were responsible for the herd numbers of the 50's-80's are no longer legal. The bottom line is that we are exceptionally unlikely to see those types of herd numbers again.

As far as my second deer tag and that "diminished" opportunity goes; you know, those zones with 30 thousand plus tags, well I still manage to fill tags there. Hell, even this past season, with a still healing full knee replacement, and the other knee so worn out I could barely walk (it needed a full knee replacement), I filled my tag. Hell, I had opportunities to fill 2 tags there, and there was still a couple of weeks left in the season.

What "opportunity spectrum"? The opportunity to hunt, which we have without a doubt. The opportunity for large antlered bucks. Or the opportunity of more deer along with better buck to doe ratios?

 

[BarCO]

I’



All folks are saying is that we are a colkective of states, one nation. We should work together but some dinks think the animals are some prized possession. Like everything, they should be shared.

I think those days are gone, we seem to focus more on our differences than what we have in common.

 

[dr.mooseknuckles]

Where are the memes?

 

[realunlucky]

Where are the memes?

Not every thread on Rokslide needs them

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[full choke]

Not every thread on Rokslide needs them

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He said memes, not moderators...

 

[Dos Perros]

Everyone decided to stop farming and move to the city for cush desk jobs but they still want to hunt grandpa's land and kill booners.

 

[cmahoney]

Ca surveyed hunters years ago. The result was that most wanted the opportunity to hunt vs all zones being a draw system in which you would only draw every few years, thus only hunt deer every few years. At the time, F&G gave Ca hunters what they wanted' the opportunity to hunt every year.

Guys, keep in mind that the forest service manages our forests, not F&W. F&W has made many recommendations for land management over the years, that until recently, were ignored. Unfortunately, most of the land management practices of the past that were responsible for the herd numbers of the 50's-80's are no longer legal. The bottom line is that we are exceptionally unlikely to see those types of herd numbers again.

As far as my second deer tag and that "diminished" opportunity goes; you know, those zones with 30 thousand plus tags, well I still manage to fill tags there. Hell, even this past season, with a still healing full knee replacement, and the other knee so worn out I could barely walk (it needed a full knee replacement), I filled my tag. Hell, I had opportunities to fill 2 tags there, and there was still a couple of weeks left in the season.

What "opportunity spectrum"? The opportunity to hunt, which we have without a doubt. The opportunity for large antlered bucks. Or the opportunity of more deer along with better buck to doe ratios?

Maybe I just suck at finding bucks, but I think the buck to doe ratios in those units could be much better and cutting the tags to 1 per person would help.

I don’t know how long they have been giving out 33.000 tags, do you?

I get it, I have a different outlook on opportunity, I like balancing opportunity with some quality of the hunt.


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[wind gypsy]

I think we need to fight to keep hunting accessible for the working class FOR PEOPLE IN THEIR HOME STATE. That doesn’t work if you have a resource worth being excited about and also cave to NR entitlement and give away bundles of opportunity. Demand outstrips supply.

Privatization/monetizing wildlife and hunting is Texas as hell so it doesn’t surprise me the OP is in relation to TX.

 

[wnelson14]

10k aint bad really. archery bull in NM for 350+ is 12.5k
Cow at 4k is higher then giraffe tail.

all perspective.

There is a large conversation that hasnt been said here about the wage / wealth gap.
Hard to say its rich men if there are so many bidders.
Clearly the market is adjusting to what people are willing to pay.

the cow elk hunt is roughly $166.66/month and you can go ever two years. Seems reasonable and achievable for many of all income levels.

 

[MattB]

I think we need to fight to keep hunting accessible for the working class FOR PEOPLE IN THEIR HOME STATE. That doesn’t work if you have a resource worth being excited about and also cave to NR entitlement and give away bundles of opportunity. Demand outstrips supply.

In many states NR's subsidize R opportunity so NR tag allocation can help keep hunting accessible for the working class.