Oklahoma Preference (Bonus) Points

[Fordguy]

Next time you talk to them, ask them how many out of state hunters have drawn elk tags. A friend that did a cow hunt in 2021 said that at least a third in his group were from out of state and half of them didn't show up because of the new "pointguard". Better yet, ask them how Bill Jordan drew a elk tag and took a camera crew with him on the refuge to film his hunt. That's my rub, we (hunters and fishermen) fund the wildlife department 100% and have zero preference in any of the draws.

I asked then for several numbers/statistics. They said they would send them to me via email. 6 months later, I'm still waiting.

 

[Marine4life]

The elk draw in Oklahoma is a joke. I am a resident and have 27 points for elk in Oklahoma. I and every other hunter in Oklahoma have funded the wildlife department in Oklahoma (100% funded by hunters and fisherman) and in-state hunters get no preference over out of state hunters in the draw. They went to the half for 20+ because guys have complained for years that they will be too old or die before they draw a tag. I grew up north of the refuge and fortunately know a lot of landowners and have killed five elk (bulls must have six points on one side) in Oklahoma on private land five miles north of the refuge. The elk population is ridiculous off of the refuge. I have personally seen over 300 elk on a 1/2 section of wheat north of the refuge. My deer lease is about 30 miles north of the refuge and there are now elk on the adjacent property.

Not trying to disagree with you but this isn’t any different than premium tags in many western states where it turns into a OIL tag if you are lucky. I was fortunate to be stationed or attending school at Ft Sill and was lucky enough to enjoy the great hunting there to include killing an elk. Private land access is a huge issue that continues to shut out the average hunter and only supports those with deep pockets. No different in OK than the private land in all the Rocky Mountain states with elk opportunities. I hope you get a tag.


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[Honyock]

Not trying to disagree with you but this isn’t any different than premium tags in many western states where it turns into a OIL tag if you are lucky. I was fortunate to be stationed or attending school at Ft Sill and was lucky enough to enjoy the great hunting there to include killing an elk. Private land access is a huge issue that continues to shut out the average hunter and only supports those with deep pockets. No different in OK than the private land in all the Rocky Mountain states with elk opportunities. I hope you get a tag.


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There's a lot of elk on Ft. Sill and we always saw them on the polo fields west of the turnpike. About a year ago, the General that was in charge at Ft. Sill got removed of his duty. My brother who is a retired Colonel in the Air Force said that he was removed for abusing the regulations on the elk hunting on the base. Apparently, he had killed more than one and was bringing in his non-military friends to hunt.

 

[Marine4life]

There's a lot of elk on Ft. Sill and we always saw them on the polo fields west of the turnpike. About a year ago, the General that was in charge at Ft. Sill got removed of his duty. My brother who is a retired Colonel in the Air Force said that he was removed for abusing the regulations on the elk hunting on the base. Apparently, he had killed more than one and was bringing in his non-military friends to hunt.

I read about it and know people who were close to the situation. Glad he was removed. It was a special place to hunt and fish when I was there from 2006-2009. I was the XO of the Marine Detachment and was on the board for their wildlife committee. We started the youth hunts while I was on the board and it was very rewarding but I also disgusted dealing with some of the old timers who were worried the kids were going to kill all the big bucks and turkeys. I guess my point is that people get greedy when it comes to killing animals and feel entitled no mater what state they are in.


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[cuerro viejo]

Who here has hunted OK for elk and what was it like?


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easier to kill a bull then a cow @ WM WMA. its a 250-270 type bull hunt with a few in 3-310 range every year. Pretty much 100%

the big bulls are OTC in the panhandle

 

[Honyock]

@Marine4life Thank you for your service.

 

[cuerro viejo]

Next time you talk to them, ask them how many out of state hunters have drawn elk tags. A friend that did a cow hunt in 2021 said that at least a third in his group were from out of state and half of them didn't show up because of the new "pointguard". Better yet, ask them how Bill Jordan drew a elk tag and took a camera crew with him on the refuge to film his hunt. That's my rub, we (hunters and fishermen) fund the wildlife department 100% and have zero preference in any of the draws.

I doubt its that high since for terrible odds bulls since you have to have a valid Hunting licenses to apply. NR hunting licenses are $185.

with that said there is a pool of NR still alive with NR Lifetime Hunting license, but we are starting to age

Now you can draw a cow tag pretty easy. I’ve had several friends Res and NR draw with less then three points.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

Now I can't say for certain because I haven't seen a draw report but it's highly likely that statically it did very little to increase the odds of those with 27 points while dramatically decreasing the odds of those with with less than max points.

We'll never know for sure because Oklahoma doesn't publish detailed draw statistics, but I would guess that allocating 50% of tags to applicants with 20+ points dramatically increases the high pointholders' odds. Below is a distribution plot of applicant point totals for the 2023 elk draws in Colorado and Utah (two states I happen to be somewhat familiar with and also have readily available detailed statistics).


I would assume point distribution looks similar in Oklahoma (i.e., lots of folks with lower points and progressively fewer folks with higher points). Just for grins, I calculated hypothetical odds by point tier for Oklahoma's 2023 elk draw assuming point distribution is identical to Utah's using a simple, single round draw and a 2-round draw with 50% of tags awarded to the 20+ point tiers during round 1. This model indicates that the 2-round draw results in a 350% increase in draw odds for the 20+ point tiers and a 50% decrease for the sub-20 point tiers.

 

[Fordguy]

Yeah

We'll never know for sure because Oklahoma doesn't publish detailed draw statistics, but I would guess that allocating 50% of tags to applicants with 20+ points dramatically increases the high pointholders' odds. Below is a distribution plot of applicant point totals for the 2023 elk draws in Colorado and Utah (two states I happen to be somewhat familiar with and also have readily available detailed statistics).
View attachment 657712

I would assume point distribution looks similar in Oklahoma (i.e., lots of folks with lower points and progressively fewer folks with higher points). Just for grins, I calculated hypothetical odds by point tier for Oklahoma's 2023 elk draw assuming point distribution is identical to Utah's using a simple, single round draw and a 2-round draw with 50% of tags awarded to the 20+ point tiers during round 1. This model indicates that the 2-round draw results in a 350% increase in draw odds for the 20+ point tiers and a 50% decrease for the sub-20 point tiers.
View attachment 657713

This pretty much mirrors the conversation I had with multiple parties last spring. The low point folks get screwed for the benefit of the 20+ point crowd. The 20+ point crowd already have the advantage of more points (i.e. more chances in the drawing) that they were intended to have based on the original system. The system was never intended to guarantee anyone a tag.

The changes they made last spring will benefit the 20+ point crowd less every year, because the number of new 20 point holders each year increases faster than they can be drawn.

In short, they pissed on the majority to benefit the few.
,

 

[Tree Monkey]

The elk draw in Oklahoma is a joke. I am a resident and have 27 points for elk in Oklahoma. I and every other hunter in Oklahoma have funded the wildlife department in Oklahoma (100% funded by hunters and fisherman) and in-state hunters get no preference over out of state hunters in the draw. They went to the half for 20+ because guys have complained for years that they will be too old or die before they draw a tag. I grew up north of the refuge and fortunately know a lot of landowners and have killed five elk (bulls must have six points on one side) in Oklahoma on private land five miles north of the refuge. The elk population is ridiculous off of the refuge. I have personally seen over 300 elk on a 1/2 section of wheat north of the refuge. My deer lease is about 30 miles north of the refuge and there are now elk on the adjacent property.

Do any of the private ranches lease the hunting rights?

 

[Honyock]

Do any of the private ranches lease the hunting rights?

They do but all of the private land that have elk around the refuge (Comanche County and Caddo County) that I know of is either already leased, hunted by the landowner or they sell hunts. Farmers are making quite a bit more on the hunting leases than they can make on leasing the land for agriculture. My lease is in Caddo County (35 miles north of the refuge) and we've seen elk on the land adjacent to me. Hopefully they will find out I have food plots and protein feeders and will jump the fence.

 

[OkiechasingElk]

Drew out in 2016 for a Jan 2017 Bull Hunt. Had 6 Preference Points at the time. Had two guys in my truck with 25+ points. One was a guy in his 80s that finally drew at 33 pts.

They took us out the day before and we all got a numbered flag, during the scouting trip we got to identify our own drop off/pick up location. I randomly drew a highly sought after section and got myself dropped at the very back of it. We get 2 1/2 days to hunt. Tues, Wed, and it ends on Thursday at noon. My plan, hunt hard Tuesday cover as much ground as possible looking for a solid 6x6. Wednesday I'd shoot the first 5x5 I saw. I did not want the pressure of hunting on a clock Thursday morning. lol

I climbed up to the ridge before sunrise and hid behind a boulder from the wind waiting for sunrise. As soon as it came up I started glassing and working along backside of the ridge.

Spotted a nice 5x5 about 15 minutes after legal shooting light and I laid out prone on a boulder with my .06. While observing him, and then looking around the area I noticed another bull bedded on the other side of several large boulders, right out in front of me, all i could see was glimpses of antlers, he looked alot bigger though. So I focused on him. Another hunter come up into the bowl I was observing, the 5x5 got up looked at him, looked at me and took off across the bowl. The other hunter took two shots at the running 5x5.....at that point the bull behind the boulders stood up. He was 30 yards straight in front, I was in a perfect shooting position prone on a large boulder with my gun on a bipod. I put 3 180 grain bullets from my .06 in his vitals. He walked about 40 yards and then went down. Took him about 45 seconds with 3 rounds in him before he finally fell over. After the 3rd round I put the gun down, and picked up my phone to video.

30 minutes into opening morning my OIL hunt was over and the 7x7 in my Profile pic was down.


P.S. I was thrilled to hear the old man tagged a nice 6x6 that same morning and his son and grandson were in the woods helping him pack out.

 

[Legend]

All point systems FAIL when the top point holders out number the tags given each year.

The new approach is a bandaid that just shifts the disappointment around. Now if the stopped selling the silly points then eventually it would fix the issue.

 

[Eastcoasthunter94]

I drew a cow tag as a non resident last year. It was my 4th year applying. I built 3 bonus points while I was on active duty in the military and qualified for resident license fees. You can apply by buying a temporary non resident license for $75 each year. I shot a cow on the second to last day of the hunt

 

[LostArra]

I drew a cow tag as a non resident last year.

As Honyock mentioned earlier there is no advantage for residents in the elk draw which is ridiculous.

A senate bill (#1857) was just introduced to double the non-resident deer license price ($300 to $600) and reduce the bag limit by half (6 deer total, two of which can be bucks to 3 deer total, one of which can be a buck). The senator said it was in response to crowding on WMA's but I'm guessing he just applied for his first non-resident elk tag in the mountain west.

 

[Coopsdaddy]

Well I have 20 points and know many others that do as well.

 

[OKHunter84]

I can't complain about Oklahoma elk hunt. I drew with 8 points. I talked to people on the hunt that drew with much less then that. I think giving the old timers a better shot is a good move. It does really suck that it's once in a lifetime, but I get it.

I had a blast on the walk in.. It is pretty much a glorified high fence hunt but it's pretty rough country. I've hunted several states and it's pretty gnarly back in the back of the hunt area, just doesn't have the altitude to deal with. I can't wait for my wife or sons to draw so I can go back and help them.

 

[Okie-hunter]

As Honyock mentioned earlier there is no advantage for residents in the elk draw which is ridiculous.

A senate bill (#1857) was just introduced to double the non-resident deer license price ($300 to $600) and reduce the bag limit by half (6 deer total, two of which can be bucks to 3 deer total, one of which can be a buck). The senator said it was in response to crowding on WMA's but I'm guessing he just applied for his first non-resident elk tag in the mountain west.

I’m late to this thread and a bit off topic but the mentioned bill passed. Total cost for non-residents to deer hunt will be $708. That’s a $208 small game license & $500 deer license per method of take. I will say Oklahoma public gets hit hard by non-res. OK has become a destination hunting state in the Midwest and has been a fallback state for guys that don’t draw KS, IA, IL, etc. because it was cheap, otc tags, holds quality deer & has good public ground. Texans also swarm to OK due to their lack of good public ground and high lease prices. From what I’ve seen from ~ October 20th to ~November 20th I would see noticeably more non-res truck tags from all over the eastern/southern US on WMAs than resident. People were planning their archery “rutcation” before rifle season opens. It will be interesting to see if this tag increase does as it’s supposedly intended to do and reduces pressure on WMAs

 

[OKHunter84]

I’m late to this thread and a bit off topic but the mentioned bill passed. Total cost for non-residents to deer hunt will be $708. That’s a $208 small game license & $500 deer license per method of take. I will say Oklahoma public gets hit hard by non-res. OK has become a destination hunting state in the Midwest and has been a fallback state for guys that don’t draw KS, IA, IL, etc. because it was cheap, otc tags, holds quality deer & has good public ground. Texans also swarm to OK due to their lack of good public ground and high lease prices. From what I’ve seen from ~ October 20th to ~November 20th I would see noticeably more non-res truck tags from all over the eastern/southern US on WMAs than resident. People were planning their archery “rutcation” before rifle season opens. It will be interesting to see if this tag increase does as it’s supposedly intended to do and reduces pressure on WMAs

If they were serious about reducing crowding on WMA's then they would come up with a draw system. That's the main problem with public in Oklahoma, no draw process, relatively low amount of public (Oklahoma is #42 with only 4.6% public), and no preference for resident over non resident. It's a real travesty that they don't have tags allocated in the elk draw specifically for residents like all the western states do.

If you really wanted to dive into other issues that keep us from having higher quality bucks then you would need to look at the timing of our rifle season compared to the rut and the fact that you can kill two bucks every year. For example, look at Nebraska compared to Iowa, Illinois compared to Indiana, and Oklahoma compared to Kansas. All these states border each other and the state that has a draw, keeps a rifle season out of the rut and limits you to one buck has better quality bucks for the most part.

 

[sodaksooner]

Can't believe I missed this thread....Hmmm. As an Ok resident since 1994, I have put in religiously for the elk tag since then. I think I must have missed a few years as I now "only" have 28 pp. Crazily, I didn't realize that for elk, non residents could apply. I knew they could for deer. Personally I see no issues with us "old" guys getting a bit of a bump, when I see teenagers drawing with 0 pts. I wouldnt have complained when I was 26 and applying for the first time. I have just resigned myself to the fact that I will probably never draw, but if I am 83 and I do, you can damn well bet I'll be out there. I try and hunt somewhere in the west every year and have had plenty of chances at elk, but its just something about killing one in my state of residence. Guess I could start applying for a cow tag instead.....lol.

I am glad Non resident fees have gone up. Keep watching videos of out of state guys killing does ad nauseum. It will definitely weed out a lot of non residents using us as a backup. all the other states around us are doing it, so we should join the party. That said, resident fees actually went down. We now pay $36 total for all 6 tags.

Looked at my PP this am and I actually have 10 deer pp. Pretty much exclusively put in for McAlester AAP hunts and drew that hunt 5 out of 7 years at one point and now have gone 10 without.

FWIW, the fort sill hunt is available for any active duty military person if I recall correctly. Had I know that when I was in the Marines, I'd have flown back from Camp Lejeune to hunt....lol.