Ramblings of a moron/guide

[Ucsdryder]

Not every thread and post is directed at "you" personally. Nor is every post an open invite for correction, criticism, and or argument.

For many, the OP's message is solid advice, especially if they are inexperienced. The elite world class elk killers here need not be offended, because, well its unbecoming of your stature.

Don’t forget. The “I can do whatever I want, I paid you” guy is also the guy who will whine and cry when he draws blood and the guide makes him punch his tag…he’s also the guy that will give up after 1 day in the mountains because it’s too hard…he’s also the guy that will miss a shot he shouldn’t and make the guide double his efforts rather than be done with the hunt…

 

[Ucsdryder]

Love how all you small caliber hippies get your undies wadded up every time someone mentions a big caliber. Then you got the “I kill with a red Ryder just fine” crowd. Great, go start your own thread on your accomplishments. OP listing some things that we all hear from multiple guides every season. All you ladies that bitch and moan about it aren’t guides, so what’s your place to start criticizing?

Just go to the 223 moose/elk/hip/rhino/t-Rex thread and read all the chest pounding…

 

[Deadfall]

As a guide I have zero expectations from the client. The outfitter I work for has no caliber requirements.

I've been doing this along time. So I also get to see the regret on people at end of hunt. The time spent consoling folks is sometimes tough. Watching guys kick thier own butt is no fun.

30-06 is biggest caliber I own.
This wasn't aimed at seasoned guys. My only desire is to be helpful to those just getting going or just getting back into it. Or have never been on western hunts.

As for flinching, this is based solely on my experience. If someone flinched with a big bore they usually flinch with a 22 as well. A big bore vdoes exacerbate the problem, flinching is usually a issue with fundamentals, although not always.

Point being proficiency with your weapon of choice is highly recommended.
The big bore calibers are slightly more forgiving since they will punch through bone at diistance in the event a shot is off a touch.

So yes I believe new guys to this should have a 300Wm OR bigger.

Is that right or wrong....IDK.

 

[cnelk]

What’s your take on archery equipment?

Can’t wait to hear that

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

...very well could of been.

Haha. I like your style and appreciate the insight from someone with real experience.

 

[Theringworm]

I disagree on 1 thing, caliber recommendation. 3 of the last 4 years I have been on hunts in Alaska. Not sure if it’s an Alaskan thing, but none of the guides know anything about modern day calibers. Have never heard of them.

My 28 Nosler has made 2 of those trips. Out of 14 guides, no one had ever heard of it. In my opinion they are only concerned about a certain caliber or bigger because it can shoot a certain grain bullet or heavier. Yet they know nothing about the ballistics of their recommended bullets nor how they compare to modern day calibers shooting lighter or equally grained bullets.

My buddy had a 6.5 PRC. Once again, they had never heard of it.

My suggestion would be that as a guide/outfitter, it’s okay to have recommended calibers or bullet grain weights, but at least stay up to date on modern day ballistics. If you want to draw a line in the sand on what can or can’t be brought, just make sure that is clear before the client pays.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Why’s your take on elk wounding equipment?

Can’t wait to hear that

Fixed that for you.

 

[Deadfall]

It is my sincerest hope that a new fella finds this thread. Reads every post and walks away with a better idea of what he should do within his personal situation.

I am not a sensitive fella and welcome the chance to conversation with differing opinions.

 

[cnelk]

Fixed that for you.

Nice try

 

[Deadfall]

I disagree on 1 thing, caliber recommendation. 3 of the last 4 years I have been on hunts in Alaska. Not sure if it’s an Alaskan thing, but none of the guides know anything about modern day calibers. Have never heard of them.

My 28 Nosler has made 2 of those trips. Out of 14 guides, no one had ever heard of it. In my opinion they are only concerned about a certain caliber or bigger because it can shoot a certain grain bullet or heavier. Yet they know nothing about the ballistics of their recommended bullets nor how they compare to modern day calibers shooting lighter or equally grained bullets.

My buddy had a 6.5 PRC. Once again, they had never heard of it.

My suggestion would be that as a guide/outfitter, it’s okay to have recommended calibers or bullet grain weights, but at least stay up to date on modern day ballistics. If you want to draw a line in the sand on what can or can’t be brought, just make sure that is clear before the client pays.

No lines being drawn here. I'm in same boat as guides you mentioned. The caliber thing is just my opinion from observations in field. Hopefully guys like you will keep posting and spark thought in the mind of a new guy who doesn't even know what he's looking for.

 

[philos]

Not to hijack here but take calibers as efficient killers. Someone like me likely needs hard a hitting caliber like a 300WSM-where as others say cnelk or zap- could likely kill from 400 yards with simply a pissed off stare

 

[roadrunner]

I imagine the reason he brings up clients being in moderate physical shape and having a little bit of shooting skill, is because at the end of the trip most will put a lack of success on him.

That's another discussion for a different day not brought up in the original post.

 

[Deadfall]

Fixed that for you.

I assume you refer to bows. That is a entirely different and equally complex conversation for another time...if anyone wants to hear more ramblings from a moron about bows. I'll be glad to start a new thread....lol...

 

[AKDoc]

Another year come and gone. Some observations for those looking at guided hunts in the future.

BE in the best possible shape you can be in!
It boggles my mind that guys spend several thousand dollars on a hunt then show up and can't walk 1/2 mile. Or shoot 300 yards (accurately)

BE proficient with your weapon!
Knocking the dust off a rifle 2 weeks before your hunt and pounding half box of shells through at 100 yards is not being proficient.

All outfitters I've heard of, harp on 2 things. Being in shape and being proficient with weapon.

If hunting western big game isn't tough enough, neglecting these 2 things almost guarantees a no harvest.

Most issues I see are with shooting fundamentals.
Buy a 22 that is inexpensive and practice shooting from prone, kneeling, off hand and some version of shooting off a tree branch. Guides are not packing a shooting bench and lead sled around mountains.

Being in decent shape does not mean being a marathon runner. However, you should realistically be able to travel from a horse....300 yards up a hill to sit....

The more out of shape you are the further you need to be able to shoot. Opposite of that. Better shape shoot less far.....However, being both is optimal.

It's very frustrating when guys show up with a borrowed rifle they have NEVER shot. Refuse to shoot it before climbing on a horse...SMH...

It's getting a bit worse every year.....

Most hunts around the country are booked 2 years in advance if not longer.

Don't show up for a elk (or bigger game) hunt with a rifle smaller then 300 win mag. Especially if it's your first time hunting something in that size class, in rough terrain at altitudes you are nor use too.

Will smaller calibers do the job...Absolutely. Mountains wind people that are not use to it. The adrelin, fatigue and frustration is not anything you can replicate outside the mountains.
Why chance hitting a bull in shoulder at 300 yards with a .308 and not finding it? When the 300 WM. Would have dropped him.

If you have to ask if your rifle is big enough.....It is not...lol...

I think you're sharing some valid and useful real world observations and suggestions from an experienced perspective. Thank you for taking the time to do that here. I also appreciate your humor and attitude in response to the ballistics contentions.

BTW, I could never be a guide (although I've been asked to be). I've seen and listened to some of the clients that a master guide friend has had over the years...man, I sure don't have the right temperament for some that I've met!

 

[Tmac]

@Deadfall, some solid advice there. My question, relative to your minimum cartridge advice, could it be poor bullet selection and placement causing many of the problems you see? Myself, my elk hunts are almost always with a 270Win or 280Rem.

 

[Yoder]

I guess he should have told people to be fat, lazy, poor shooters and to bring your AR-15. Many people think money can buy anything. It can't buy fitness or skill. I'm sure they deal with fat, lazy guys with $10k worth of gear that can't shoot or walk up a hill. Then when the guy has a bad experience they crap all over the outfitter. Nothing wrong with bring enough gun and be in shape.

 

[LightFoot]

It is my sincerest hope that a new fella finds this thread. Reads every post and walks away with a better idea of what he should do within his personal situation.

I am not a sensitive fella and welcome the chance to conversation with differing opinions.

Wow… these fellas sure are giving you a hard time because you said 300 minimum.

I would wager the majority of these guys are internet warriors that have very little real world experience.

I understand the pressure you are under as a guide to get your client on an animal under the right circumstances to make a good shot. The idea that it’s not your fault if a client can’t shoot or brings a rifle too small, while maybe true, does not free you from the effects. Those being lower success rates, poor client reviews, etc.

I think the 300 win is an optimal elk cartridge. I feel the same way about the 7mm and 338. We get too hung up on cartridges when we should care only about the following:

Bullet construction
Bullet terminal performance.
Impact velocity.
Accuracy.
Precision.

Then again, I’m just another internet warrior.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Deadfall]

@Deadfall, some solid advice there. My question, relative to your minimum cartridge advice, could it be poor bullet selection and placement causing many of the problems you see? Myself, my elk hunts are almost always with a 270Win or 280Rem.

Absolutely.....I've seen guys with 300 RUM shoot a elk 5 times. Then have to finish it once we get to it.

There's foolery both ways.

I see guys be successful with small calibers all the time. However, very, very very rarely do see a out of shape guy be successful with a small caliber.

 

[Deadfall]

Wow… these fellas sure are giving you a hard time because you said 300 minimum.

I would wager the majority of these guys are internet warriors that have very little real world experience.

I understand the pressure you are under as a guide to get your client on an animal under the right circumstances to make a good shot. The idea that it’s not your fault if a client can’t shoot or brings a rifle too small, while maybe true, does not free you from the effects. Those being lower success rates, poor client reviews, etc.

I think the 300 win is an optimal elk cartridge. I feel the same way about the 7mm and 338. We get too hung up on cartridges when we should care only about the following:

Bullet construction
Bullet terminal performance.
Impact velocity.
Accuracy.
Precision.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I'm not a sensitive man. All I care is that it sparks some useful conversation that gives guys, especially new, something to think about that maybe they wouldn't of otherwise.

I'm in your boat with bullet stuff

 

[Superdoo]

All I know is if you’re too lazy to haul a simple lightweight folding shooting bench up the mountain… I’m too lazy to haul your tip money in my wallet!