Ramblings of a moron/guide

[Rich M]

It is amazing that folks will show up and not have tried to be in shape or able to proficiently shoot.

Going next year and will shoot around 300-500 reloaded hunting rounds before trip. Will walk a couple miles 2-3x a week, some strength conditioning but nothing crazy. Im old and since it is a ranch-based private land guided hunt, will expect to be pampered some. Will buy some decent burbon once the plane lands and expect to enjoy some on the rocks around the campfire. Will share. Looking forward to this trip.

Imo, the guide’s job is to get me in position for a 300 yd or less shot. I will kill the critter and then he cuts it up and carries it back to camp. Backstraps for dinner!

I also expect to check 300 yd zero upon arrival at camp.

I marvel at our super moderator telling us we have small minds. Most guys on here do DIY and could teach the guides a thing or two. Almost sounds like he’s saying the magic 6.5 isnt enough gun for hunting.

 

[260madman]

So being out of shape and not remotely proficient with a rifle and it should be a 300 WM? That 300 will certainly make up for everything when you’re out of breath and have no fundamentals.

 

[Rich M]

Couple questions.
1. How much range time to become proficient.

2. How many rounds a year?

3. Is bench shooting enough?

4. What are good positions to practice from? (On the range you perverts)

1. Depends where you are starting at.

2. I shoot a thousand or more rounds a yr w multiple guns. Used to shoot a lot more but $ and travel to range slows it down a bit. I avg 3 shots per duck so far this year. Hadn’t shot since end of season 2020. Muscle memory goes a long ways.

3. Imo, yes. Most guys need trigger time and confidence. Easily comfy to 200-250 yds standing off side of a tree or shooting stick. I like to rest my trigger elbow if possible.

4. Imo, 300 or better needs a decent rest. Bipods, packs, prone.

 

[Yoder]

They’ll all in great shape and shoot like ex marine snipers if you ask them. Even if they’re in good shape, most are mental pussies. I’m not in the best shape, but I’m mentally tough, most lack that.

It doesn’t matter if you run a 5 or 15 minute mile, most can’t grind a 2 hour hike or 4 hour glassing session.


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I can totally understand that. Most people don't appreciate the value of suffering. Send them all a copy of David Goggins Book Can't Hurt Me when they book the hunt.

 

[stanginthe11s]

this thread has me confused, I thought I was hiring a guide so that HE would be in shape and proficient at follow up shots, you guys are saying I have to do work? lol

all joking aside, my experience with anything guided is the guide seems to forget where he/she came from. first, you should realize someone is paying you good money for something they cannot do on their own. so if you have an expectation of anything other than the fact they are not professionals like you, then the problem is the guide.
second, being a good shooter is subjective, if I'm using that term correctly. there are people who are great shooters but have a hard time when animals are in the picture. conversely the opposite holds true. not everyone knows what to expect with a hunt so a guide should convey the proper info and have the hunter shoot at the elevation and max distance before heading out. simply put, its the guides responsibility to be the responsible one, and if someone wants to waste money and not listen then that's their prerogative.
I also know the frustrations of seeing people do or make the same mistakes despite what you tell them. I have learned to just say "hey, its your money" and I'm the one who chose this profession.
also, I've never been on a guided hunt. mostly because I'm in shape, proficient at shooting/hunting and follow directions well so there's no need to pay someone to stand next to me and point out the obvious. nothing here was meant towards anyone, implied or otherwise. just my opinion.

 

[EdP]

I've hunted with 4 outfitters. All provided good advice in advance regarding caliber/cartridge, fitness level needed, shot range expected. Many in camp seemed to ignore the advice given. Not the guide's or outfitter's fault.

What I expect from my guide is knowledge of the area and behaviors of the game animal being hunted, skill at spotting game, a high level of fitness, and knowledge and skill at handling the game and trophy after the kill. Other things I appreciate is good communication and a calm demeanor to help the client (me) calm down to make a good shot because I tend to get excited.

 

[FLATHEAD]

I do love my 300WM.
I never hear anybody asking is it enough.

 

[j_volt]

I'm curious why you hired a guide in the first place.

I’m just a nerdy Midwest CPA that watches a lot of YouTube videos

 

[Steve300xcw]

Couple questions.
1. How much range time to become proficient.

2. How many rounds a year?

3. Is bench shooting enough?

4. What are good positions to practice from? (On the range you perverts)

#1...that's different for everybody as some people suck alot more than others lol

#2...hard to put a actual number out there. I used to shoot alot more than I do these days. I think I practice more now though

#3...It has been a long time since I even sighted in a rifle off of a bench.

#4...around here there are 3 main shooting positions. Prone, off hand, an off the hood of the truck.....I don't shoot offhand as much as I used to, need to change that. Resting off the top of your pack while sitting has come in handy a few times

 

[Deadfall]

Do any of you send out some kind of fitness recommendation to clients or minimum proficiencies with their rifle? Some people are a little delusional about what they are capable of. Maybe if it was spelled out they might get a wakeup call. I've never been on a guided hunt so I'm just curious. I just looked up some random outfitter and all their website says is a "Rigorous and challenging hunt, not for the faint of heart".

Usually hunts itb tge outfit I work for are booked out 2 years in advance. Being in shape and weapon profiency are harped on continuously over that time frame.

As for exact fitness regimes, that is not harped on. Since everybody reacts differently to different stuff.

However, the terrain and such is covered in detail

 

[Deadfall]

Do it! I’d be all ears.

. Ok....later though

 

[ChileVerde]

I mean, 300 WM does kick some ass…

But really anyone that can’t make the commitment to practice shooting and get in some decent shape might be going about this all wrong in the first place.

 

[NorthernHunter]

I probably wouldn't have fully understood the OP prior to the last 2 seasons. Twice now I have let people tag along. Tried to convey just how steep and nasty the area was and that building endurance with a pack and getting in shape would be critical. Neither listened. Both times they found reasons not to go far from camp. (Exhausted) finally got my brother in law on a good bear. Got him within 200 yards. Missed completely. Very frustrating.

 

[Wolf_trapper]

Id like to hear what ranges your incompetent hunters are shooting elk with 308 in the shoulder and not dying? Must be 500yds plus.

I agree with you 100% but 300wm is not my pick for beginners. People are getting soft is the just of what I get from your post.

 

[philos]

It is amazing that folks will show up and not have tried to be in shape or able to proficiently shoot.

Going next year and will shoot around 300-500 reloaded hunting rounds before trip. Will walk a couple miles 2-3x a week, some strength conditioning but nothing crazy. Im old and since it is a ranch-based private land guided hunt, will expect to be pampered some. Will buy some decent burbon once the plane lands and expect to enjoy some on the rocks around the campfire. Will share. Looking forward to this trip.

Imo, the guide’s job is to get me in position for a 300 yd or less shot. I will kill the critter and then he cuts it up and carries it back to camp. Backstraps for dinner!

I also expect to check 300 yd zero upon arrival at camp.

I marvel at our super moderator telling us we have small minds. Most guys on here do DIY and could teach the guides a thing or two. Almost sounds like he’s saying the magic 6.5 isnt enough gun for hunting.

So you marvel at being told you have a small mind. You were not involved in the thread at that point so sounds like the small mind comment you made could be an admission of guilt on your part.

The oddity of it all with you is that I agree with 99% of what you say here.

The other comments that were aimed at ridiculing the OP were certainly not full of intellectual forethought. Why is is so difficult to disagree or debate and not make yourself sounds like a jerk? If all one can do is argue and provide disparaging comments then they are indeed of small mind.

Also you are 100% correct-in my opinion-in that there are DIY guys here that are more skilled than many guides or outfitters. I know a few of those guys from Rokslide and their skills in the mountains are likely far greater than mine ever will be-you are likely in that group. I don't see those guys trying to tear others down though.

As far as me saying anything about a 6.5 anywhatchamaycallit not being enough-I have no idea how you gleaned that from my post. A 6.5 isn't enough for me, but perhaps it is just me compensating

 

[Traveler]

…you should realistically be able to travel from a horse....300 yards up a hill to sit....

Four pages of guide vs paying client aside, sadly in 2022 this is worth saying for any situation and just good advice in general.

 

[Turkeygetpwnd38]

Man, wrong day to post I guess, folks jumped on you hard! Guides get a lot of experience in a short amount of time, that’s worth quite a bit. Thanks for posting yours OP!
Here is my take since no one asked:
I’ve been on 4 guided hunts- AB moose where I had to have a guide (ended up hunting alone and killing my moose alone), AZ bear shortly after my son was born (left after two days), and two whitetail semi guided (I just paid a trespass fee but stayed in the camp with guided hunters/guides).
The stuff guides deal with is insane. In all camps, the type of people that came out and how utterly unprepared they were blew my mind. It wasn’t just that they were unprepared, most were 100% confident they were great hunters and prepared in every way. Ignorance, confidence and arrogance is a hell of a combo!
That being said, I’ve never met a guide I liked. I think they get jaded and bitter dealing with these clients day in and out, understandably, so when someone who actually has their stuff together comes in, they get treated the same and do not get the benefit of the doubt. I think a lot aren’t as experienced as you would assume, and instead of recognizing that and saying “I don’t know”, they go the opposite way.
I’m not sure what the point of this is but to say do your research, pay more for better operations, be prepared, listen to the advice of guides, they have a lot of experience, but know your own stuff as well. Everybody has something to learn from someone else, just like Ryan learned how amazing the 6.5s are from his personal trainer

 

[WKR]

Typically the guys who hire guides fall into one of these categories
Out of shape
Old or getting old
Lazy
Inexperienced
Impatient
Incompetent to DIY
I'm not saying all but most fall into those categories, of course there is the rich guys, or the once in a lifetime hunts where you are forced into a guide, wyoming wilderness non resident, Alaska non resident species. Thats a different story.

 

[Blackstorm]

Good post about Elk Hunting and guides and expectations

I am lucky enough to hunt the same ranch for the last three years with access to both private and public land. I've shot three elk and two bucks so far with longest shot being 545 yards and shortest this year at 60 yards.
1. I am not in the best physical shape but good enough to hunt for 5 days, I was not able to do a 5 min mile this year and thus missed the opportunity to shoot a dandy bull, my partner missed the shot at 271 yards, he was breathing too hard when he shot. this is something we are practicing for next year.

2. I shoot a lot of different guns all the time and consider myself proficient with all of them, the ranch has a procedure where you shoot for your guide the better shooters get the better guides. I thought we were prepared until we had to shoot what we felt like where almost vertical shots both up and down, can't practice that where we live. We use a phone app to do turret and angle adj now and it matters.

3. Guides job is to find where the game has gone when pressured and to come up with a strategy to accomplish this. My guide put us on game every day but not all were in a shootable position. My job is to safely put a bullet in the vitals when my guide thinks things are safe.

4. I think the 300 wm is a safe choice for most to shoot accurately at 300 yards, again if they practice shooting this cartridge it is pretty forgiving if a shot is off a little. My 300 wm is a favorite to shoot. But I also shoot a 30/06 and a 338 Lapua with the 338 being the most accurate out to over 1000 yards, but the 06 has dropped over 50 animals under 300 yards including this year's buck, with an offhand shot. I use a special tripod for the 338 that weighs less than my shooting sticks and the gun becomes a tack driver, and it sets up very quickly and it lashes nicely to my day pack.

5. My best advice if hunting at a higher elevation and coming from a much lower elevation is to come out a few days early to assimilate to the new elevation and practicing shooting at this elevation.

 

[WV Mountaineer]

I mean….if he is a guide he probably sees more elk killed in a year than most guys kill in a lifetime. I know we have our own self proclaimed rokslide experts but guides are in a unique position to see it all, from the newbie to the expert.

For the record i elk hunt with a 7saum and target bullets! But sometimes I identify as a self proclaimed rokslide expert so it’s ok

According to his rant, it sounds like he sees very few elk killed because his clients are all out of shape and flinch at the shots they do get. Just sayin’.

There’s been container boat loads of elk killed with guns smaller than a 300 win mag.