Ramblings of a moron/guide

Status
Not open for further replies.

j_volt

WKR
Joined
Jan 15, 2019
Messages
708
Location
Missouri
Tips for my guide from my archery elk hunt this year:

-Take less breaks to hit the one-hitter
-Wait more than 5 minutes after meeting the client to make a Brokeback Mountain joke at the client’s expense
-Be able to keep up with the client
-One mountain house a day is not enough food
-Do not ask your client for water after you made him pack in 4 days of water
-Don’t tell your client to stand behind trees when calling an elk in
-No one cares about your baby mama
-Kill an elk yourself before guiding for elk
-Take more notes when I call an elk in
-Don’t sit in the middle of a meadow to glass
-You don’t actually have to sit in camp all day because of “thermals”

I think that’s all :)

But in reality, I mainly agree with the OP. Most clients suck, and I am sure it can be a frustrating profession.
 

fngTony

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jan 18, 2016
Messages
5,035
@Deadfall I’ve never done a guided hunt but is there a similarity with a guided fishing trip? For example if you aren’t serious (skill and physical shape can vary) then you should just book a sightseeing trip and leave the game for those who want it?
 

jayhawk

WKR
Joined
Apr 2, 2022
Messages
444
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the idea of the OP here is: if you can't walk up a hill and be somewhat proficient with your rifle (whatever caliber it is) then, for heaven's sake, bring something you have a little better odds of killing it with if you make a bad shot.

Nothing wrong with thinking that way.
 
OP
Deadfall

Deadfall

WKR
Joined
Oct 18, 2019
Messages
1,526
Location
Montana
Tips for my guide from my archery elk hunt this year:

-Take less breaks to hit the one-hitter
-Wait more than 5 minutes after meeting the client to make a Brokeback Mountain joke at the client’s expense
-Be able to keep up with the client
-One mountain house a day is not enough food
-Do not ask your client for water after you made him pack in 4 days of water
-Don’t tell your client to stand behind trees when calling an elk in
-No one cares about your baby mama
-Kill an elk yourself before guiding for elk
-Take more notes when I call an elk in
-Don’t sit in the middle of a meadow to glass
-You don’t actually have to sit in camp all day because of “thermals”

I think that’s all :)

But in reality, I mainly agree with the OP. Most clients suck, and I am sure it can be a frustrating profession.
From now on don't hire scabs. No way this kind of stuff flies with a legit outfit.
There are to many outfits like this though.
 

EdP

WKR
Joined
Jun 18, 2020
Messages
1,144
Location
Southwest Va
Let's credit the good advice rather than pick at one detail because there was a lot of good advice. My limited experience seeing other clients in camp lead me to think his take on unprepared clients is spot on.

On my guided elk hunt in 2016 one of the other clients brought a rifle that had not been sighted with the ammo he brought. Our trip to the range showed it off by over a foot at 100 yds. The hunter he was paired with helped him get it on paper and then he quit and said "good enough" once it was within 6". On day 2 of the hunt he cost that other hunter a shot at a bull because he wouldn't pull the trigger and the bull got tired of waiting. Fortunately, that other hunter and I were paired a couple of days later and both took decent bulls that day, the only elk taken by the 6 hunters in camp. His with a .300WM, mine with a .30-06 at 350 yds. Both of us were competent on horseback which was good because we were out for 20 hrs that day, and that did not include getting the meat back to camp (done the following day).

Two other clients were a bit put out that we scored when they had hunted that area for 4 days and came up empty. In talking at dinner the last night I was asked by one of them how I had gotten into horses. I told them I had started riding and had bought my own horses 11 years earlier because I knew I wanted to go on an elk hunt in the backcountry on horseback at some point and wanted to be competent on horseback. I think that struck a cord because he laughed and said "we took a horseback lesson two days before we travelled out." Neither of them showed any more negative feelings about their lack of success.
On my mule deer hunt in the Shirley Mts of Wy last year the youngest client in camp, a tall lean guy in his mid 30's from Texas, could not keep up with his guide or the other hunter 10 years his senior. They had to wait on him numerous times to catch up. He was totally exhausted at the end of the first day, barely ate any supper he was so exhausted, and didn't go out the following morning. It was just a matter of not taking seriously the need to get in shape for a hunt at altitude.

I am reminded of the quote "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." The key point I want to make with the accounts above is that if you don't prepare, it is not only you who may be affected but also your fellow hunters, especially if the guide situation is 2 on 1.
 
OP
Deadfall

Deadfall

WKR
Joined
Oct 18, 2019
Messages
1,526
Location
Montana
@Deadfall I’ve never done a guided hunt but is there a similarity with a guided fishing trip? For example if you aren’t serious (skill and physical shape can vary) then you should just book a sightseeing trip and leave the game for those who want it?
🤣...doesn't matter to us. Although if someone is within tge criteria you mentioned, I would suggest bringing a camera and rifle.....lol
 
OP
Deadfall

Deadfall

WKR
Joined
Oct 18, 2019
Messages
1,526
Location
Montana
Couple questions.
1. How much range time to become proficient.

2. How many rounds a year?

3. Is bench shooting enough?

4. What are good positions to practice from? (On the range you perverts)
 
Joined
May 10, 2015
Messages
2,051
Location
Timberline
For the Moderator's and Staff Members: understand that first the hunter, and client, is never concerned with the expectations of their guide. They are paying for a service and what they get out of it is up to them.

A guide or outfitter that complains the client should've done this or the client should've done that likely isn't the clients fault. It's clearly a shortfall in communicating with the client what their expectation was and what they're wanting out of their hunt. If that happened, then maybe there's something to complain about. Otherwise, it's moot point.
 
OP
Deadfall

Deadfall

WKR
Joined
Oct 18, 2019
Messages
1,526
Location
Montana
For the Moderator's and Staff Members: understand that first the hunter, and client, is never concerned with the expectations of their guide. They are paying for a service and what they get out of it is up to them.

A guide or outfitter that complains the client should've done this or the client should've done that likely isn't the clients fault. It's clearly a shortfall in communicating with the client what their expectation was and what they're wanting out of their hunt. If that happened, then maybe there's something to complain about. Otherwise, it's moot point.
Mmmm....at start of hunt probably true....on flip side, I've had lots and lots of guys push harder then they want to because of how much effort we (staff) puts out. I know this is true, because clients tell me so.
 

Geewhiz

WKR
Joined
Aug 6, 2020
Messages
2,027
Location
SW MT
Another year come and gone. Some observations for those looking at guided hunts in the future.

BE in the best possible shape you can be in!
It boggles my mind that guys spend several thousand dollars on a hunt then show up and can't walk 1/2 mile. Or shoot 300 yards (accurately)

BE proficient with your weapon!
Knocking the dust off a rifle 2 weeks before your hunt and pounding half box of shells through at 100 yards is not being proficient.

All outfitters I've heard of, harp on 2 things. Being in shape and being proficient with weapon.

If hunting western big game isn't tough enough, neglecting these 2 things almost guarantees a no harvest.

Most issues I see are with shooting fundamentals.
Buy a 22 that is inexpensive and practice shooting from prone, kneeling, off hand and some version of shooting off a tree branch. Guides are not packing a shooting bench and lead sled around mountains.

Being in decent shape does not mean being a marathon runner. However, you should realistically be able to travel from a horse....300 yards up a hill to sit....

The more out of shape you are the further you need to be able to shoot. Opposite of that. Better shape shoot less far.....However, being both is optimal.

It's very frustrating when guys show up with a borrowed rifle they have NEVER shot. Refuse to shoot it before climbing on a horse...SMH...

It's getting a bit worse every year.....

Most hunts around the country are booked 2 years in advance if not longer.

Don't show up for a elk (or bigger game) hunt with a rifle smaller then 300 win mag. Especially if it's your first time hunting something in that size class, in rough terrain at altitudes you are nor use too.

Will smaller calibers do the job...Absolutely. Mountains wind people that are not use to it. The adrelin, fatigue and frustration is not anything you can replicate outside the mountains.
Why chance hitting a bull in shoulder at 300 yards with a .308 and not finding it? When the 300 WM. Would have dropped him.

If you have to ask if your rifle is big enough.....It is not...lol...
I find it interesting that people are giving you so much grief for your sentiments. I concur with most everything you said.

I tend to find myself as an informal elk guide for a good number of people every year. I give every effort possible to get them on animals but it sure is frustrating when your “clients” can’t walk, can’t shoot, sit there and screw around when your glassing even with binos around their neck, don’t want to leave the truck/sxs, 4 wheeler, etc. let alone after the harvest when you find that they don’t know how to process an animal, “can’t” pack that much weight, and on and on.

I continually find more and more that so many people LIKE THE IDEA OF HUNTING AND WANT A PIC OF THEMSELVES BEHIND A NICE SET OF ANTLERS TO SHOW THEIR FRIENDS, but fail to realize the effort and discomfort that must be put into it to be successful year after year. Sitting on the side of a hill glassing for hours when it’s 12F and blowing 25 mph isn’t fun in the moment but it’s often times necessary.

It’s easy for people to buy gear. I’m sure you see that more that anyone. People show up with thousands in brand new clothes, optics, weapons, Inreach’s and misc gadgets of all kinds. They look the part, and have the gear, but have completely failed on the effort/proficiency side of things.

Caliber choice is very subjective, but I definitely understand that to give a client their best chance at harvesting, bring a caliber with a larger margin of safety.

I am familiar with your frustrations.
 

philos

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Feb 26, 2012
Messages
1,385
Location
Behind you
roadrunner-I sorta' see your point but to say the hunter/client is never concerned with the guides expectations is a bit off to me. Now the guides expectations need to be realistic for each individual but ideally the expectations should not be unilateral. I hope a guide expects me to shoot straight as I expect that of myself.

I can see problems where a guide is not realistic or emphatic if the client is not 100% prepped but has a good attitude. There has to be some give & take I would say.
 

WRO

WKR
Joined
Nov 6, 2013
Messages
2,946
Location
Idaho
Sorry bit I'm not toting a 300WM anywhere for anything. My 300wsm is plenty of bullet for any Wyoming game.
Proper shot placement trumps caliber. Some guy flinching with a 300WM because an outfitter told him he had to shoot it is not doing the prey any favors.

They’re for all intents the same caliber ..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Joined
Apr 8, 2020
Messages
1,145
Location
Kansas
Be prepared, be in shape ( you don’t need to be cam in shape just not Wheezy Mcfats), and be proficient with whatever weapon you using, is never bad advice.
 

WRO

WKR
Joined
Nov 6, 2013
Messages
2,946
Location
Idaho
For the Moderator's and Staff Members: understand that first the hunter, and client, is never concerned with the expectations of their guide. They are paying for a service and what they get out of it is up to them.

A guide or outfitter that complains the client should've done this or the client should've done that likely isn't the clients fault. It's clearly a shortfall in communicating with the client what their expectation was and what they're wanting out of their hunt. If that happened, then maybe there's something to complain about. Otherwise, it's moot point.

Yeah no, I’ve had numerous clients who couldn’t follow instructions even they were tattooed on each hand.

Everything the op said holds a lot of truth. My preference is that a client leaves their rifles at home and shoot mine.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Yoder

WKR
Joined
Jan 12, 2021
Messages
1,304
Do any of you send out some kind of fitness recommendation to clients or minimum proficiencies with their rifle? Some people are a little delusional about what they are capable of. Maybe if it was spelled out they might get a wakeup call. I've never been on a guided hunt so I'm just curious. I just looked up some random outfitter and all their website says is a "Rigorous and challenging hunt, not for the faint of heart".
 

philos

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Feb 26, 2012
Messages
1,385
Location
Behind you
Do any of you send out some kind of fitness recommendation to clients or minimum proficiencies with their rifle? Some people are a little delusional about what they are capable of. Maybe if it was spelled out they might get a wakeup call. I've never been on a guided hunt so I'm just curious. I just looked up some random outfitter and all their website says is a "Rigorous and challenging hunt, not for the faint of heart".
Spot on. This is a great idea!
 

Justin Crossley

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Feb 25, 2012
Messages
7,268
Location
Buckley, WA
Tips for my guide from my archery elk hunt this year:

-Take less breaks to hit the one-hitter
-Wait more than 5 minutes after meeting the client to make a Brokeback Mountain joke at the client’s expense
-Be able to keep up with the client
-One mountain house a day is not enough food
-Do not ask your client for water after you made him pack in 4 days of water
-Don’t tell your client to stand behind trees when calling an elk in
-No one cares about your baby mama
-Kill an elk yourself before guiding for elk
-Take more notes when I call an elk in
-Don’t sit in the middle of a meadow to glass
-You don’t actually have to sit in camp all day because of “thermals”

I think that’s all :)

But in reality, I mainly agree with the OP. Most clients suck, and I am sure it can be a frustrating profession.

I'm curious why you hired a guide in the first place.
 

WRO

WKR
Joined
Nov 6, 2013
Messages
2,946
Location
Idaho
Do any of you send out some kind of fitness recommendation to clients or minimum proficiencies with their rifle? Some people are a little delusional about what they are capable of. Maybe if it was spelled out they might get a wakeup call. I've never been on a guided hunt so I'm just curious. I just looked up some random outfitter and all their website says is a "Rigorous and challenging hunt, not for the faint of heart".

They’ll all in great shape and shoot like ex marine snipers if you ask them. Even if they’re in good shape, most are mental pussies. I’m not in the best shape, but I’m mentally tough, most lack that.

It doesn’t matter if you run a 5 or 15 minute mile, most can’t grind a 2 hour hike or 4 hour glassing session.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

P Carter

WKR
Joined
Nov 4, 2016
Messages
577
Location
Idaho
I assume you refer to bows. That is an entirely different and equally complex conversation for another time...if anyone wants to hear more ramblings from a moron about bows. I'll be glad to start a new thread....lol...
Do it! I’d be all ears.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top