Proposed Deer plan for Central Idaho(not official)

[Spoonbill]

The stats idelkslayer doesn't show are the size of deer harvested and number of hunters, just because things seem consistent isn't an arguing point that all is well.

Here are some TOTAL deer hunter numbers through the last 50 years. The average is 135,000 and the highest number I have found was in 2007. Here's a random sample:

1977 - 146,300
1983 - 139,000
1991 - 146,500
2003 - 143,300
2007 - 148,900
2014 - 143834
2022 - 126,802

He included the total number of deer hunters, and broke out the number of mule deer hunters but I would give less weight to mule deer hunters as the harvest report ask what species is primarily hunted. The number of hunters is likely based off of tags sold.
You are right that it does not include age class of deer, which would be harder data to collect.
One question I have and I don’t know how it can be answered, is increased human activity driving bigger bucks to different areas, either to private land or into different units. 48 and 49 are in the middle of increasingly popular tourist areas so that is likely having an effect.

 

[Customweld]

The stats idelkslayer doesn't show are the size of deer harvested and number of hunters, just because things seem consistent isn't an arguing point that all is well.

For units 48 and 49.
Unit 48: 2005 25% 4 points
2007 36%
2012 35.3%
2017 43.7%
2022 42%

Unit 49 2005 23% 4 Point
2007 29%
2012 38%
2017 30.9%
2022 34%

These numbers are off the IFG harvest statistics page. Whether you believe folks are reporting true numbers or not, the trend actually shows an increase from 15 years ago

 

[Gobbler36]

For units 48 and 49.
Unit 48: 2005 25% 4 point Unit 49 2005 23% 4 Point
2007 36% 2007 29%
2012 35.3% 2012 38%
2017 43.7% 2017 30.9%
2022 42% 2022 34%

These numbers are off the IFG harvest statistics page. Whether you believe folks are reporting true numbers or not, the trend actually shows an increase from 15 years ago

Maybe
guess what is most obvious during this conversation is that until we actually have mando hunter reporting we aren’t going to really know
we should all petition for that now I guess

 

[Customweld]

Maybe
guess what is most obvious during this conversation is that until we actually have mando hunter reporting we aren’t going to really know
we should all petition for that now I guess

So, we are back to emotions and anecdotal experiences, which is a poor way to manage anything. And for the record I am absolutely for mandatory reporting.

 

[87TT]

How do you feel about drawing a tag for Elk? why do you think that program was started? Why are Deer any different?
In my opinion Deer need a lot more help in some areas than Elk currently, talking units 48,49

i don't draw a tag for elk. OTC and wouldn't like a draw there either.

 

[Pacific_Fork]

You Sun Valley elites are the San Francisco to California. You have your anecdote problems and want to blanket the entire state with more regulations. If you limit deer hunters down south you put pressure everywhere else, if you blanket the whole state with further restrictions you steal opportunity from everyone else for generations to come just because you want more/bigger bucks. You'll never get it back, EVER! Just go hunt, move around, get out of your comfort zone, adapt, because sitting on the couch waiting for 3 years to have a deer tag SUCKS.

I sure as hell hope all of you arent watching hunting social media and are following the hunt quietly movement. If you are watching kill shot videos, buying products from companies that use dead animals for advertising, supporting marketing tactics to the masses, watching MeatEater, etc you are part of one big side of the problem. Marketing works, and "backcountry" hunting is as trendy as a tight end dating a popstar right now.

I also hope you're out hunting bears, cats, and wolves on a regular basis.

All we need is better habitat and to throw a wrench in the spoke of development, somehow. Safe wildlife highway crossings, more game wardens to arrest poachers (we seem to always forget how much poaching goes on), continuing predator control which we are doing pretty good at currently. So start with putting your efforts there, not less hunting opportunities.

The restrictions I am all for are thermals, drones, two way communication, 1,000 yard snipers, etc. But these are just basic fair chase principles IMO. Mandatory harvest reporting isnt a bad idea if it would work.

 

[Customweld]

For units 48 and 49.
Unit 48: 2005 25% 4 points
2007 36%
2012 35.3%
2017 43.7%
2022 42%

Unit 49 2005 23% 4 Point
2007 29%
2012 38%
2017 30.9%
2022 34%

These numbers are off the IFG harvest statistics page. Whether you believe folks are reporting true numbers or not, the trend actually shows an increase from 15 years ago

Just out of curiosity, I queried the 2016 and 2017 statistics for comparison. If you have been around Idaho, you'll remember how bad the winter of 16-17 was. Same units:
Unit 48 2016 33.7% Success Rate 47% 4 Points
2017 18.1% Success Rate 43.7% 4 Points

Unit 49 2016 32.6% Success Rate 37.1% 4 Points
2017 17.4 % Success Rate 30.9% 4 Points

 

[87TT]

Two things;
1) There are way more folks that just want to hunt every year than want to wait multiple years and don't have to have a giant buck to be a man.
2) I want to be on record to agreeing that all this long range shooting and technology should be banned.

 

[Spoonbill]

You Sun Valley elites are the San Francisco to California. You have your anecdote problems and want to blanket the entire state with more regulations.

I am willing to bet @IdahoElk doesn’t fall into this category along with a lot of locals who don’t. I grew up there and have heard this idea floated around for a bit from born and raised locals to hardcore conservative transplants. My disagreements with the proposed plan weren’t just formed based of the original post but all arguments by the nonbanned posters have been presented in a well thought out manner. No need to blanket label someone because you disagree with their opinion.

 

[Pacific_Fork]

I am willing to bet @IdahoElk doesn’t fall into this category along with a lot of locals who don’t. I grew up there and have heard this idea floated around for a bit from born and raised locals to hardcore conservative transplants. My disagreements with the proposed plan weren’t just formed based of the original post but all arguments by the nonbanned posters have been presented in a well thought out manner. No need to blanket label someone because you disagree with their opinion.

I’ve never heard anyone say that really and realize fully that txt is impossible to detect sarcasm/humor. I said that in tongue in cheek and more so making a comparison.

There’s a bit of inconsideration in this thread for the rest of the state all because a few guys are upset about pressure in TWO units.

Luckily F&G is ignoring these request so far and I imagine they will for some time.

 

[Spoonbill]

I’ve never heard anyone say that really and realize fully that txt is impossible to detect sarcasm/humor. I said that in tongue in cheek and more so making a comparison.

There’s a bit of inconsideration in this thread for the rest of the state all because a few guys are upset about pressure in TWO units.

Luckily F&G is ignoring these request so far and I imagine they will for some time.

There really needs to be a sarcasm button or emoji.

Here is some good news for the deer in central Idaho. Hoping this can help the deer herd.

State gives thumbs-up to $108K plan to shoot wolves

The Idaho Wolf Depredation Control Board on Oct. 26 approved the scope of work for three applications submitted by a Nevada-based company that asked for over $108,000 in state funds

www.mtexpress.com

 

[Pacific_Fork]

Agreed on the emojis we need.

While shooting any animal from a helicopter is gross to me, I support it and should help the deer some. Better than poison for sure, and the only way right now.

Can’t comment on the livestock issues in that article without my opinion being uneducated.

 

[Customweld]

There really needs to be a sarcasm button or emoji.

Here is some good news for the deer in central Idaho. Hoping this can help the deer herd.

State gives thumbs-up to $108K plan to shoot wolves

The Idaho Wolf Depredation Control Board on Oct. 26 approved the scope of work for three applications submitted by a Nevada-based company that asked for over $108,000 in state funds

www.mtexpress.com

This has about as much of a chance to happen as I stand to play in the NBA. Support your local trapper and keep up on the wolf intel threads. That's going to be the best that we can do.

 

[Gobbler36]

You Sun Valley elites are the San Francisco to California. You have your anecdote problems and want to blanket the entire state with more regulations. If you limit deer hunters down south you put pressure everywhere else, if you blanket the whole state with further restrictions you steal opportunity from everyone else for generations to come just because you want more/bigger bucks. You'll never get it back, EVER! Just go hunt, move around, get out of your comfort zone, adapt, because sitting on the couch waiting for 3 years to have a deer tag SUCKS.

I sure as hell hope all of you arent watching hunting social media and are following the hunt quietly movement. If you are watching kill shot videos, buying products from companies that use dead animals for advertising, supporting marketing tactics to the masses, watching MeatEater, etc you are part of one big side of the problem. Marketing works, and "backcountry" hunting is as trendy as a tight end dating a popstar right now.

I also hope you're out hunting bears, cats, and wolves on a regular basis.

All we need is better habitat and to throw a wrench in the spoke of development, somehow. Safe wildlife highway crossings, more game wardens to arrest poachers (we seem to always forget how much poaching goes on), continuing predator control which we are doing pretty good at currently. So start with putting your efforts there, not less hunting opportunities.

The restrictions I am all for are thermals, drones, two way communication, 1,000 yard snipers, etc. But these are just basic fair chase principles IMO. Mandatory harvest reporting isnt a bad idea if it would work.

f&g did just do a big hey project on Hwy 21 so that was awesome to see. I trap and hunt wolves some and coyotes and bears. gave up instagram 3-4 years ago, and I’m about down to the hunt quietly podcast, couple books and Rokslide. haha I do love that tightend with a pop star analogy. I’ll be stealing that one!

i do want to challenge one thought,

I hear this often, how are you going to sway developers to save habitat and what wrench do you have planned? I feel I can make the same argument as y’all that’s it’s easy to look at opportunity is the issue, well it’s easy to say also that habitat is an issue without any real plan or examples to show where we‘ve successfully stopped someone from putting up houses or industrial buildings, resorts, golf courses etc in prime habitat.
if those things are attainable by hunters which makes up a tiny subset of the voting population(when we even show up to vote) then I’m all ears

I’ve never heard anyone say that really and realize fully that txt is impossible to detect sarcasm/humor. I said that in tongue in cheek and more so making a comparison.

There’s a bit of inconsideration in this thread for the rest of the state all because a few guys are upset about pressure in TWO units.

Luckily F&G is ignoring these request so far and I imagine they will for some time.

It’s more than two units though man, I talk to guys that hunt all over the state and it’s the same story. I’d love to tag along with you in areas you get to hunt without folks, and deer everywhere just to see it

 

[Customweld]

f&g did just do a big hey project on Hwy 21 so that was awesome to see. I trap and hunt wolves some and coyotes and bears. gave up instagram 3-4 years ago, and I’m about down to the hunt quietly podcast, couple books and Rokslide. haha I do love that tightens with a pop star analogy. I’ll be stealing that one!

i do want to challenge one thought,

I hear this often, how are you going to sway developers to save habitat and what wrench do you have planned? I feel I can make the same argument as y’all that’s it’s easy to look at opportunity is the issue, well it’s easy to say also that habitat is an issue without any real plan or examples to show where we‘ve successfully stopped someone from putting up houses or industrial buildings, resorts, golf courses etc in prime habita.
if those things are attainable by hunters which makes up a tiny subset of the voting population(when we even show up to vote) then I’m all ears

It’s more than two units though man, I talk to guys that hunt all over the state and it’s the same story. I’d love to tag along with you in areas you get to hunt without folks, and deer everywhere just to see it

Trapping wolves is a huge boost and kudos to you for getting out there and helping.

The developer issue isn't going to be solved. But what can be done, is encourage and push for wildlife corridor easements in the beginning planning and zoning phase. Get involved in the Forest Service timber sale information, not all timber sales are bad. The hay days of mule deer were in the middle of massive logging (clearcutting) projects. IWF was successful in getting the BLM and BOR to cancel the trail above Lucky Peak. That trail would have put major undue stress on wintering deer. I've mentioned these a million times, but IFG has volunteer opportunities to plant bitterbrush every winter. I can count the number of hunters on 2 hands that I have worked with on those plantings. It's always old folks and college students trying to get credit for some of their biology classes. Most of the urban, private habitat that is prime for development, sadly will be lost. It's America and private property rights reign supreme (as they should). But we can work to make the public ground better.

As I've said before, deer hunters shouldn't be the only group sacrificing to help the numbers. I love to upland bird hunt, but there is no reason we should be chasing birds on winter ground (with dogs no less). Bird season needs to end on the last day of December. Hiking and biking trails in urban areas need to be closed at the end of December.

 

[Andrew12gauge]

It is ironic that in the years I’ve been living in the treasure valley(15+ I need to get out of here) I’ve never seen deer on the stretch of freeway between Nampa and Meridian, until this year, and as soon as I started seeing mule deer living out in the fields off the freeway right at black cat and at 10 mile, excavation work began on turning those fields into subdivisions.

On another note, have you guys taken the black bear survey? I didn’t see any options on that survey of continue to manage as is, there were options for controlled hunts and options to take away some of our current management strategies. I don’t agree with any of that but I think it is just a matter of time before we get a deer survey like that and that is precisely why I think we need to go to a zone model now. We do it now in order to ensure we aren’t on a controlled hunt only model and only able to hunt every 3-5 years in the future. IDFG knows they cannot continue to manage all game besides elk in a free for all model with the booming human population in our state, the trick is to get them to make some small changes rather the big drastic change


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[Customweld]

It is ironic that in the years I’ve been living in the treasure valley(15+ I need to get out of here) I’ve never seen deer on the stretch of freeway between Nampa and Meridian, until this year, and as soon as I started seeing mule deer living out in the fields off the freeway right at black cat and at 10 mile, excavation work began on turning those fields into subdivisions.

On another note, have you guys taken the black bear survey? I didn’t see any options on that survey of continue to manage as is, there were options for controlled hunts and options to take away some of our current management strategies. I don’t agree with any of that but I think it is just a matter of time before we get a deer survey like that and that is precisely why I think we need to go to a zone model now. We do it now in order to ensure we aren’t on a controlled hunt only model and only able to hunt every 3-5 years in the future. IDFG knows they cannot continue to manage all game besides elk in a free for all model with the booming human population in our state, the trick is to get them to make some small changes rather the big drastic change


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Yep small changes. Keep chipping away until we are hunting every 3-5 years.

 

[Andrew12gauge]

Yep small changes. Keep chipping away until we are hunting every 3-5 years.

Except there haven’t been any small changes, IDFG has literally done the exact same thing for as long as I can remember, anybody that wants can walk into Walmart/sportsmans/etc and buy a tag any time and go hunt anywhere in the state and not even report their hunting activity. At least if people are forced to pick a zone IDFG will have a slightly better idea how many hunters are hunting where. There is a change on the horizon and I would rather it be small than large


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[Spoonbill]

Except there haven’t been any small changes, IDFG has literally done the exact same thing for as long as I can remember, anybody that wants can walk into Walmart/sportsmans/etc and buy a tag any time and go hunt anywhere in the state and not even report their hunting activity. At least if people are forced to pick a zone IDFG will have a slightly better idea how many hunters are hunting where. There is a change on the horizon and I would rather it be small than large


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Make reporting mandatory or you can’t buy a tag the next year. Sure some people will forget and get pissed but at least the numbers will be accurate. I like being able to hunt any otc unit, it gives you options every year on where to go. We are not the only state that operates like that either, Idaho just seems to be the only state with residents wanting to change it.

 

[Gobbler36]

It is ironic that in the years I’ve been living in the treasure valley(15+ I need to get out of here) I’ve never seen deer on the stretch of freeway between Nampa and Meridian, until this year, and as soon as I started seeing mule deer living out in the fields off the freeway right at black cat and at 10 mile, excavation work began on turning those fields into subdivisions.

On another note, have you guys taken the black bear survey? I didn’t see any options on that survey of continue to manage as is, there were options for controlled hunts and options to take away some of our current management strategies. I don’t agree with any of that but I think it is just a matter of time before we get a deer survey like that and that is precisely why I think we need to go to a zone model now. We do it now in order to ensure we aren’t on a controlled hunt only model and only able to hunt every 3-5 years in the future. IDFG knows they cannot continue to manage all game besides elk in a free for all model with the booming human population in our state, the trick is to get them to make some small changes rather the big drastic change


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Such a good post
couldn’t agree more