Pack weight training and training regime questions

[marshrat]

I'm new to training with a pack in my prep training. I bought a Kelty Cache Hauler, and I have been carrying 50lbs plus the weight of the pack to train. We don't have anything but hills around here, and that is difficult access sometimes. But my question is this. What weight should I be training with in the pack? I keep reading about these guys that are carrying out 100 lbs of meat after a kill, and I am severely impressed. Is this what I should be working up to? Also, training for the high country: other than maybe sprinting hills or going out west to just get used to it, what can I do for training prep in the absence of mountains? I weight train, run, sprint, Crossfit occasionally, work lower body, etc., but I am not an endurance minded person by any means. I want to be in far better shape before I attempt to head into elevation changes. Thanks.

 

[Jason Snyder]

This link if for training for trail races while living at low altitude.

http://www.ns2.bigstonepub.com/training/training-plans/309-train-low-race-high

Interval training is a great way to get your body ready for the high altitude stuff. Do more lower body stuff. Big arms don't get you up a hill, strong legs do. Then, they get you safely down with 80 pounds of elk meat on your back. A strong core and strong legs should be your primary focus for strength, and then work on your cardio with focus on endurance and intervals.

Pack training is good, just be careful you don't overdo it. If you go heavy too often you can set yourself up for injuries like plantar fascitis, or tendonitis in your achilles. If you can't hit the hills, do step ups onto a weight bench with 50 pounds in your pack. Do this for an hour and your legs will know you did something.

Train smart. Preventing injuries is a lot better than having to rehab them.

 

[blb078]

You don't have to train w/100lbs, that's probably a bad thing to do on a regular basis just because it's so much stress on the body. The 100lb pack outs are only at the end of your trip...hopefully. I train w/40-50lbs one day a week then do cardio exercises during the week. As mentioned above, your legs are what's going to take most of the hurting, along w/your lungs and heart, then there is the mental part of it too. For us flat landers there really isn't much we can do to train for 10k elevations other than lots of cardio type exercises/muscle endurance training.

There are a few things out there that you can buy such as masks and things that are suppose to reduce how much air you take in to help w/high elevation hunts but I doubt they are close to the actual thing. I would stick w/what you're doing now as long as the cardio part is 5 days a week w/some weights and pack training added in. Another thing is you don't have to race up the mountain as fast as you can, it's not going to hurt to slow down a bit and take a break for 15-20mins when needed while hiking up instead of pushing yourself to the max right at the start.

 

[Snyd]

Training is good but a high fitness level does not guarantee you will not have any issues above 8-10,000. It depends on the individual and your body. Yes it's good to not be overweight and have a good level of cardiovascular fitness but it's not guarantee you won't have issues above 10,000. What elevation are you talking when you mention "high country". I live in Fairbanks Alaska. 500ft above sea level. I sheep hunt up to about 6500ft. Sleep at about 45-5000 usually. It's still under 8-10,000 so it's not an issue.

Now, last winter we went to CO to go skiing. Our friends house we stayed at was at 9000, skied between 10-13000. We spent the first 2 days acclimatizing. We were in real good shape but could tell the body needed to adjust. The body needs time to do that. 8-10,000 is when things start to change. Below that, it your in good shape you'll be fine, usually. 8-10 you can get AMS (Accute Mountain Sickness), it's pretty common actually. Read all about AMS, HAPE and HACE here... http://www.altitudemedicine.org/index.php/altitude-medicine/learn-about-altitude-sickness

Back to training. I concur with the others, too heavy, too fast, too often for too longs can be bad. My "sheep shape" training is rigorous cycling, squats and hiking what hills I can with a pack. I start at about 30lbs and over May, June, July work up to a couple hikes at 85lbs and maybe one at 100 just to feel the weight. These are short duration like an hour or so. But, for several weeks I don't go over about 65. Works for me and I'm 52 and packed a ram out 12 miles last year and have done a few others over the past 7 or 8 years.

Listen to your body and do what it tells you. If you hurt and are tuckered out, rest a day or 2 to FULLY recover and then get back at it. You want healthy, strong muscles, tendons, ligaments and joints. Overtrain and you will defeat your purpose.

 

[marshrat]

Thanks, guys. Please keep the suggestions coming.

 

[Jager]

Many years ago, as a young infantry soldier we had a WHS rep come in and give us a lecture on carrying packs. When he came out with the 'every kg over 15 you carry, you are doing yourself permanent damage' line he was laughed out of the room. The laughter came from the fact that we were at 15 kg before we really started putting stuff in our packs.

Know fast fwd 20 years, my best mate whom I joined the green machine with has just started going through the process of getting his injuries 'tallied', for want of a better word. A doctor added the accumulated weight he has carried on his back in training and on operations over the last 22 years and calculated 120 000 kg. That is a staggering figure and it doesn't do the body any good.

I recently read a scientific report into soldiers training with full weight packs, it wasn't advised and if it had to be done, maybe once a fortnight.

You are much better off keeping physically fit aerobically, anaerobically, and building muscle with a complete body programme. Heavy packs are a mental game, however, being in good physical shape will help immensely with this mental side of it. Training with a weighted pack on your back will damage your body, that's why they call war fighting a young man's game.

 

[rodney482]

Keep doing what your doing.

I would say most guys will never pack out a 100 lb pack.. they might call it 100 lbs cause that is how it feels.

Put 100lbs in a pack and see how it feels.

for most guys it would not even be safe to carry that much weight in the mountains

Once you get in altitude stay hydrated!!! go slow and let your body adjust.

*** I know there are guys who can do 100lbs.. so dont get bent out of shape.. I said most.

 

[G Posik]

Here in Houston there are no hills so I use the High School bleachers. They work good for a climbing exercise. With weighted park or without. You can climb on the step part, the seat part or even pretentious you are going over dead fall by stepping over the seat area. Like said above legs, lungs and core these are the areas to really focus. Thrown in some shoulders , back and arms to keep everything balanced. Lower back I put that in the core so do not overlook the lower back!

Glenn

 

[ScottP]

Also, training for the high country: other than maybe sprinting hills or going out west to just get used to it, what can I do for training prep in the absence of mountains? I weight train, run, sprint, Crossfit occasionally, work lower body, etc., but I am not an endurance minded person by any means. I want to be in far better shape before I attempt to head into elevation changes. Thanks.

Lots of good advice already, but I will give my $0.02 since I have also walked this road. Depending on your fitness goals, I would suggest changing your mindset to 'endurance minded'. Its exactly what a mountain hunt is, many days of pushing your body to the limits, hour after hour. So build up those hiking workouts, not necessarily with a super heavy pack, but duration. Get used to physical exercise for several hours. I did pretty well last year just dedicating most of my weekends to backpack hikes and camping trips with long day treks (yes, I now live in the mountains so its easier). I work so much in the summer that I don't have time for exercise during the week. When I lived in the midwest, my office was in a 15 story building, so I used the staircase along with all the triathaletes. Get creative - load a well-fitted pack with 20lb and spend the weekend doing stuff...

The points about strengthening your core and legs are key. Since switching from a more weight lifting regime to endurance focused exercises and isometrics (pushups, etc) - I've dropped a huge amount of mass off my upper body... I feel so much lighter out in the mountains because of it. Good luck!

 

[hflier]

Being a fellow current OK resident, here is what I have learned over the last year. You must be in far better cardio shape than you realize. Last year I did not prepare enough and I paid. I have been training much harder this year. I just came back from a trip to Yellowstone, Grand Teton and Rocky Mountain National Park. I was at elevations daily from 6,500 to 12,000. I tolerated it much better, but I still need to train harder (I am 50 though and it is a little more challenging). Also, no matter what, plan to feel like crap for the first two days. If you know this is coming, then you won't worry about it as much. Just take it easy and let your body start to adapt. By day 3 I felt a lot better. The way I am gauging it, is if I can do a 3 mile run in 30 minutes then I am getting close to where I need to be. I am down to about 32 minutes and man I can hump that pack on the hills much better. In addition to cardio, I am training with my pack and the actual load I will carry. This is a must as you use different muscles that running etc. do not exercise.

 

[SHTF]

Bah I do 100# on a light day. Man up and climb that rope with it on your back. =-)

 

[SHTF]

Kidding of course. I keep my pack as light as I can right now without my Bow my pack is at 40# That is still to much I feel. I want to get down to 30# with water but no bow. But this means I have to spend a lot of money to get the ultralight gear. But we all gotta have goals in life =-)

 

[Jon Boy]

I feel like 90% of people wont be able to ever pack out an honest 100 lbs in elk country. I know no matter how much I train it just wouldnt be safe for me to do it in the rugged terrain I hunt. I could tough it out if I wanted to but with 100lbs I feel like it wouldnt take to much to tip you over on a rock slide or break an ankle. For that reason I train for endurance. If I have to take an extra trip to keep my pack weight under 70 lbs, then so be it. If your a big guy and in really really good shape then more power to yuh! I just think the majority of people cant do it safely, especially when you throw in terrain that requires some technical navigation, among the likes you'll find out west.

 

[ScottP]

Being a fellow current OK resident, here is what I have learned over the last year. You must be in far better cardio shape than you realize. ... By day 3 I felt a lot better.

Another good point here. Set some targets for yourself over the course of the summer. If you run 12 minute miles now, try to get to 10 by August, etc. If you can get to your hunting area a bit early and acclimate to the elevation and take a few light scouting hikes, all the better. On my first mountain hunt, I hit it too hard the day before season scouting and day 1, then totally crashed from dehydration and exhaustion and was basically unable to hunt on day 2. By day 5 I felt like a champ and was scaling the mountains just fine. You want to be in this condition when the bell rings, not at the end of the hunt!

 

[Ross]

My training mirrors what Scott and Jager have mentioned. Elk hunting is a marathon type event day after day of climbing,descending, chasing,hiking. So duration of your workout is key along with consistency. Interval training and high intensity workouts allow you to yield quicker results in a shorter window of time. No heavy pack training for me as I want to enter season healthy and injury free. I will throw on a 25 pd pack for high intensity hiking but will leave heavy stuff for the days when I have a smile on my face from punching another tag 77 days keep at it and the fun begins.

 

[Manosteel]

ok guys. a little confused on the advice given on training with a wieghted pack. I jog everyday with the dog, wieght train 4-5 days a week 2 on 1 off (rotating through 4 different workouts= Legs; shoulder/abs; back/bicept; chest/tricep). When I its a wieght day I jump on the eliptical for 30 mins (or combo with hard run with the dog) then hits wieghts hard for 30-40 mins.

Since I got my BT1 I have been running with the pack, empty at first and now walking the dog for 30 mins with more wieght each time. I even did a short 20 min walk with 75lbs to see how it carried.

My question; should I walk the dog everyday with a wieght pack 40-60lbs and do local ski hills up and down the hills once on the weekend or would that be too much?

After reading this thread I am thinking of continue with my workouts as described and then using the wieghted pack every other day during the week with the one day on the ski hills. Thoughts? I am 40, but in good shape. did feel the 75lbs walk the next day

 

[Jason Snyder]

I go a little heavier than Ross. I'll put a 40 pound back of rock salt in and go for a hike. I like to do at least an hour, preferably two. No brutal hill climbs, but I like to get in some up and down to work the quads.

I only do it one day a week. The older I get, the more I believe in diversity in your workouts. I do very little free weights, usually only in the winter. I do body weight exercises, plyometrics, trail running (shorter hill work and long endurance work), mountain biking, and of course go backpacking.

Right now I am doing 2-3 Insanity workouts a week, racing my mountain bike one day a week, doing one long trail run a week, with one or two shorter runs thrown in as time and recovery allows.

 

[fillthefreezer]

alot of people are kind of dogging working out with a heavy pack, maybe im doing something wrong.. as i havent been at this as long as alot of you guys but it seems beneficial in the sense of as long as you dont overdo it, youre conditioning your body. hips, shoulders, back, hip flexors, feet, etc. all the things that if you throw a 7day pack on and hike into your spot after only working out in a gym all summer, you'd be too sore to hunt...

 

[Ridgerunner]

I think the older you get your training method changes, the younger guys tend to do the heavy weights more frequently.

 

[Becca]

While lots of people do it with no seemingly ill effects, I don't like to do much "training" with a weighted pack due to the unnecessary stress on my joints. I want to be able to hike and backpack for a lot of years, and don't want to wear my body out with unnecessary weight. That being said, we do a lot of backpacking in spring and summer, and often bring along some "heavy extras" on those trips so I get a fair amount of opportunity to hike with a heavy pack before hunting season rolls around. I agree that trying to backpack hunt without ever carrying any weight the rest of the year would probably be a bad idea. Just have a hard time bringing myself to put the stress on my body from needlessly hauling around 50 pounds of sand