Obtaining a refund from a "transporter"?

[ttmannan]

Why didn't your "buddies" take it up with them when they were up there?

Not their issue. They went to enjoy their hunt and I had good faith that the vendor was going to act in good faith. I still haven't told anyone in that group what happened. They did have a fun hunt and one brown bear encounter. I am not asking them, or anyone on this discussion to take it up with the vendor I was just curious if anyone knew of any recourse for a non outfitter and if anyone had similar experience in the past. I will choose and fight my own battles.

 

[ttmannan]

And just to confirm as there was some confusion and some speculation but the vendor in question is NOT a sponsor of this website. Again, I am not out to cause the vendor harm in any way which is why I have not named them unless you are genuinely interested in purchasing the hunt. And at least two people ran the other direction when I named the vendor. SMH.

 

[Gunnersdad49]

Just chiming in here with some thoughts. I think that your best opportunity was to sell your spot / ask your buddies and the transporter to sell your spot prior to the initial trip. Based on my own experiences with transporters, I think after the fact like this, even being able to sell your 2021 spot is better than a lot of transporters would have done for you.

 

[ttmannan]

Just chiming in here with some thoughts. I think that your best opportunity was to sell your spot / ask your buddies and the transporter to sell your spot prior to the initial trip. Based on my own experiences with transporters, I think after the fact like this, even being able to sell your 2021 spot is better than a lot of transporters would have done for you.

Thanks. That's good to know. Unfortunately I wasn't given the option to do it prior to the initial 2020 hunt and I haven't been given the option to do so with the 2021 hunt because they won't communicate with me. If I ever get in that situation in the future I will absolutely keep this in mind. Much appreciated Gunndrsdad49

 

[BRTreedogs]

So to answer your question you have zero recourse other then flying up there and surprising him face to face. Which will most likely end up with you arrested.
This is the problem with deals and booking without a contract.
Guess you could try small claims, judge Judy

But almost always the increased cost will be more then you will recover.

Best you can do is send him one last very polite message asking if you can sell your spot or if he is willing to offer any refund.

Not sure any single person would have bought a spot with 6 other strangers. But regardless maybe you can write it off on your taxes.

 

[ttmannan]

So to answer your question you have zero recourse other then flying up there and surprising him face to face. Which will most likely end up with you arrested.
This is the problem with deals and booking without a contract.
Guess you could try small claims, judge Judy

But almost always the increased cost will be more then you will recover.

Best you can do is send him one last very polite message asking if you can sell your spot or if he is willing to offer any refund.

Not sure any single person would have bought a spot with 6 other strangers. But regardless maybe you can write it off on your taxes.

Thanks. And they weren't strangers - I know one very well as an employee of mine and he has hunted the world with half the others. Taxes... I can def. 1099 the transporter and I may! I know Alaska Admin Cod 75.450 mentions there has to be a contract. There wasn't.
Surprising them face to face doesn't sound fun at all. I appreciate the feedback... and the tax idea.

 

[trhall]

If you paid by credit card, open a dispute of the charges and provide the credit card company all documented contact attempting to resolve the matter.

I think it said he paid by check in the op.

 

[BRTreedogs]

Thanks. And they weren't strangers - I know one very well as an employee of mine and he has hunted the world with half the others. Taxes... I can def. 1099 the transporter and I may! I know Alaska Admin Cod 75.450 mentions there has to be a contract. There wasn't.
Surprising them face to face doesn't sound fun at all. I appreciate the feedback... and the tax idea.

I meant on someone buying your 2020 spot being a stranger.


Unfortunately so much time has passed.
Credit cards are 60 days usually.
Debit, banks are 30

Honestly its just so expensive to pursue legal action these days. If there's a butt head out there it just usually not worth it unless is thousands.

Sorry you feel wronged man. I see on one side you did communicate with him early as possible.

On the other hand he didn't do anything wrong and was willing to provide you with your original scheduled trip.

Supposed that is just the cost of elk hunting.

Hopefully the elk hunt was good.

 

[Reburn]

I dont know man. You chose not to go in 20. You choose not to go in 21. You paid in full which is always a mistake. Sorry man your probably hosed. Maybe you get lucky and he books in your place and refunds 50%. Maybe he books in your place and keeps everything. I would send him an email every 2 weeks and if no response 4 weeks before dates let him know your coming and see how fast he responds. I bet he responds and says he booked your place and then you ask for a refund.

 

[Chesapeake173]

YOU chose which thing you wanted to do. YOU chose to apply for a tag that would interfere with this hunt. YOU chose to pay in full.

The lack of personal responsibility these days amazes me. These folks didn’t tell you that you couldn’t come. They even went as far to offer to allow you to come the following year. Ya think maybe they plugged you in to dates that they had open?

SMMFH


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ttmannan]

I dont know man. You chose not to go in 20. You choose not to go in 21. You paid in full which is always a mistake. Sorry man your probably hosed. Maybe you get lucky and he books in your place and refunds 50%. Maybe he books in your place and keeps everything. I would send him an email every 2 weeks and if no response 4 weeks before dates let him know your coming and see how fast he responds. I bet he responds and says he booked your place and then you ask for a refund.

YOU chose which thing you wanted to do. YOU chose to apply for a tag that would interfere with this hunt. YOU chose to pay in full.

The lack of personal responsibility these days amazes me. These folks didn’t tell you that you couldn’t come. They even went as far to offer to allow you to come the following year. Ya think maybe they plugged you in to dates that they had open?

SMMFH


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks for the judgement.
I didn't choose to not go in 2021. I am unable to go when they offered. That's not a choice, it's impossible. They have other dates open but they won't communicate with me about them.
They will not communicate to change the dates, to sell the hunt to get my "deposit" back or to get the overpayment back.

I didn't CHOOSE to pay in full I sent the amount they told me to send, which was paid in full. That should have been a red flag to me.

I did CHOOSE to not go in 2020 as a result of an elk hunt that started days after my return would have been from this hunt. Two things happened that would have kept me from doing the elk hunt had I gone on this hunt so I am glad I didn't. (Group got stranded in Kodiak for days and covid testing would have prevented me from going to AK).

As for personal responsibility they have been given plenty of notice that I will not go on those dates - and all I have asked is that they return a phone call, text, facebook message or email and they will not. It would behoove them to refund me my discounted rate and sell the hunt at full price - they have plenty of time to do so. Or to give me everything but 50% back and sell the full hunt.

I chose not to go in 2020. That was on me. And if they had canceled I would have asked for half back - which is standard even though they are being shady. They set the dates for 2021 that are impossible and posted on 1/1 on their facebook of many other openings. Yet they refuse to communicate with me or allow me to have other dates. But at this point I wouldn't go anyway.

Would you hunt with someone that refuses to communicate with you? On dates they force on you? Who didn't send a contract within 90 days of payment (required by law) or even within 18 months of payment?

Also - cancellation hunts happen all the time. I can point to a number of coues deer, bighorn sheep, dall sheep, and bear hunts in a matter of seconds.

I chose not to go in 20. That's on me. Reburn is right, I am probably hosed.

@Chesapeake173 you have nothing constructive to say and just want to criticize. I have done business with many outfitters and transporters in my 46 years and have had only one bad experience. I have taken my lumps where I need to. I have not been criticizing the vendor in this post and I was merely asking if there was recourse since they are breaking the law. And until that sentence I haven't pointed out that they are breaking the law! But you can look that up since you seem to have time on your hands. SMH

 

[ttmannan]

N

I'm probably going to sound like the dick here, but you canceled your trip & cannot rebook for this year.
How is that their fault & why do you think you should get a refund when it was, technically, you that 'breached the contract' (for want of a better phrase)?

Nah, you don't sound like a dick - it's a legit response. I canceled and instead of refund was told that I was rebooked into 2021 on certain dates. I can't make those dates work. I want to communicate with the vendor but they refuse to communicate with me. Had I made only a deposit I would be 100% fine with losing the deposit. But since I paid in full I would like 50% of my money back - they can keep 50% since I canceled. Since I chose not to go in 2020. Is that too much to ask? I wish there had been a contract - by law there should have been a contract provided to me within 90 days of them cashing my check. There's not one so it's unclear who is "in breach" but the assumption would be me since I cancelled.

 

[ttmannan]

Can you give/sell the hunt to someone else for 2021 and cut your losses?

I have asked them that. They have not responded. Are you interested?

 

[ttmannan]

They agreed - I didn't. They just arbitrarily texted me dates of a rescheduled hunt when I told them I was going to be unable to hunt in 2020. It was nice of them but the dates don't work. I have tried to communicate with them about the dates but they have completely ghosted me.

Did they agree to reschedule you from 2020 to 2021?

 

[fwafwow]

I'm late to the thread:

• If you think you were completely polite in your dealings with them, do you think you have been the same with the members posting in this thread? I mention it because sometimes when we *think* we are saying something one way, the recipient reads it another way. FWIW, I read your tone to change to being pretty defensive a page or so ago.
• Not trying to be a SA or stir the pot, but what 90 day rule are you talking about for providing a written contract (note - contracts generally don't have to be in writing)? Are you saying this fits within the Statute of Frauds - because the dates were more than a year away? if that's your point, and even if you were right, you are still talking about a civil matter, but you seem to be suggesting they have committed a crime.
• I guess you can do whatever you want on your own tax return, but I doubt this is a deductible expense.
• What I hope you take as constructive feedback - sometimes things really suck. Sometimes they are our fault, someone else's fault, or a combination. It might be worth another college try - maybe with a friend making the call, or you sending a well-written and polite letter. But if those don't work, I'd drop it. Life is too short.

 

[Trial153]

Communication is key. The fact that it isnt taking place is a red flag and not at all confidence inspiring
If the transporter would communicate their decision whatever that maybe, I dont think anyone of us would be in a position to object to that decision considering what the circumstances are.

 

[ttmannan]

I'm late to the thread:

• If you think you were completely polite in your dealings with them, do you think you have been the same with the members posting in this thread? I mention it because sometimes when we *think* we are saying something one way, the recipient reads it another way. FWIW, I read your tone to change to being pretty defensive a page or so ago.
• Not trying to be a SA or stir the pot, but what 90 day rule are you talking about for providing a written contract (note - contracts generally don't have to be in writing)? Are you saying this fits within the Statute of Frauds - because the dates were more than a year away? if that's your point, and even if you were right, you are still talking about a civil matter, but you seem to be suggesting they have committed a crime.
• I guess you can do whatever you want on your own tax return, but I doubt this is a deductible expense.
• What I hope you take as constructive feedback - sometimes things really suck. Sometimes they are our fault, someone else's fault, or a combination. It might be worth another college try - maybe with a friend making the call, or you sending a well-written and polite letter. But if those don't work, I'd drop it. Life is too short.

Awesome response - thank you. You are correct, my tone changed with two members for sure when they just attack or accuse and don't offer anything helpful but instead just get their rocks off on being pricks. I assure you my messages to the vendor have been extremely polite.

The law I reference is Section 12 AAC 75.450 - Transporter contract requirements(a) A transporter or a registered guide-outfitter contracting solely to provide transportation services shall deliver a written contract to the client (1) within 90 days after receipt of a deposit, and before transportation services are provided; (and it goes on)
No contract was provided (is the law I reference) which is what makes this ticklish - yes, I chose to cancel in 2020 but instead of a refund I was told to show up on certain dates in 2021. Dates that are not an option for me. I have attempted to communicate with them regarding this and they have not responded.

I wasn't agreeing to file it as a loss on my taxes I was saying I could 1099 them. You are right, it's not a deductible expense.

Thanks for the constructive feedback. I agree on all those points. I know, and accept my role in this. I am not dragging the vendor through the mud. I am not harassing them or threatening legal action. I have sent a well-written and polite letter and going public to ask for advise - without naming them - was my last resort to see if anyone had any better ideas other than telling me that I lack personal responsibility.

 

[BRTreedogs]

I only meantioned the tax thing because a guy i work with got stiffed on a windmill and was able to deduct it.
I'm definitely not a guru about that sorta thing.

 

[BRTreedogs]

Im so stubborn and Flights are so cheap id probably fly up there every chance I had and sit on his doorstep and keep asking ya taking me this week?

 

[ttmannan]

Im so stubborn and Flights are so cheap id probably fly up there every chance I had and sit on his doorstep and keep asking ya taking me this week?

If you did that he may forget where he dropped you off!