Nose to string different than Kisser Button?

[sndmn11]

What's your take on this?

I think folks are moving their head up and down and don't have a true anchor, rather than using their body and eyes. It is archery's example of over-analysis of equipment to solve (random high/low misses) versus learning and maintaining great form.

 

[Jon_G]

I think folks are moving their head up and down and don't have a true anchor, rather than using their body and eyes. It is archery's example of over-analysis of equipment to solve (random high/low misses) versus learning and maintaining great form.

I do agree with you here. It takes quite a bit of training and trial and error to finally start to get things right. At least that was the case for me. And I love how I continue to learn and improve every day.

 

[sndmn11]

I do agree with you here. It takes quite a bit of training and trial and error to finally start to get things right. At least that was the case for me. And I love how I continue to learn and improve every day.

When your hunting is done for the year take your sight and peep off of your bow and blank bale at a few yards focusing on an eye's closed draw to your natural anchor. Do it until you are certain your head is up/natural and your body is in alignment. Then add the peep back so it is in front of your eye when you open it; no sight for that step.

Shoot through the winter (with the sight added, duh) and see if there's a better or worse cumulative result downrange.

 

[Kwandog]

It is the same concept as shooting uphill or downhill; you aren't keeping your shoulders level and moving your arms up and down, you are maintaining that anchor and form regardless because it is consistent and repeatable. You are using your waist as the hinge rather than altering your form and changing your anchor.

Hingeing at the hips and keeping the anchor the same would work for fixed sights but not when the sight housing itself is moving. Like you were saying go home and draw your bow with your eyes closed and your peep should be lined up, now dial your sight to 100 yards and repeat. Your peep will not line up with the sight and hingeing at your hips will not fix this because your actual sight housing has moved.
It is not the same concept as uphill or downhill because again, your sight housing has been moved. Now if you are shooting multiple pins and the sight hasn't moved then yes keeping your same anchor you can hinge at the hips and putting a lower pin on the target is all you need to do.

 

[sndmn11]

Hingeing at the hips and keeping the anchor the same would work for fixed sights but not when the sight housing itself is moving. Like you were saying go home and draw your bow with your eyes closed and your peep should be lined up, now dial your sight to 100 yards and repeat. Your peep will not line up with the sight and hingeing at your hips will not fix this because your actual sight housing has moved.

I work from home, so...

Yep, just like I said, the anchor doesn't change regardless of what position the sight is rolled to. Use your eyes to adjust, not your arms or head.

 

[Billy Goat]

If your anchor isn't changing at distance with a sliding sight and a peep sight, you might as well pull the peep sight out.


It's inevitable for your anchor to slip a little at longer distances, it has too. You are creating a straight line through your peep between your eye and your pin. When that pin lowers, the peep also needs to slower slightly, or you are shooting through the bottom of it and then there's not much point of it being there. It's usually not a drastic amount, but you have to lower your anchor just slightly. It's not like you start floating.

Math is roughly this, my peep to pin is say 30", my peep is 3" from my eye, if I move my sight down an inch, then it's 1/10 of an inch my peep needs to come down, if my anchor is 1.5" behind my eye, then my anchor would need to drop 1/20th. So move a slider 2" with those numbers and you will be .2" low with your peep, which is more than half of a 3/8" peep sight. Need to adjust your anchor slightly.

 

[Jon_G]

I work from home, so...

Yep, just like I said, the anchor doesn't change regardless of what position the sight is rolled to. Use your eyes to adjust, not your arms or head.

Do explain. If you look through your peep and your scope housing is perfectly aligned, then you slide your sight from 20-100 yards and it's now sitting 2 inches lower than at 20 yards, how can you possibly see the scope through your peep without adjusting anything and just moving your eyes man?

 

[KyleR1985]

I shoot to 100 yards with the bottom of my two pin stack.

I set my peep lined up exactly with housing at 40 yards.

I anchor the same every time.

The bottom of my sight housing is lost below my peep when shooting at 80-100 yards.

If I try to adjust my hold, or the angle of my head, or any other manner of adjustment, my groups fall apart.

A reference point is a reference point. If my whole sight housing dropped out of my peep I would adjust my anchor and deal with the drop in accuracy. It doesn’t.

We all agree on setting the peep at the middle of your effective range. We’re picking nits around the rest of it.

OP make sure you tell us what you end up doing so the next guy can learn!

 

[jimh406]

You shouldn't have to change your anchor to shoot different distances. I'm curious about who thought that was necessary. I'm not saying they couldn't learn to make it work for them, but that's not the same as being necessary.

Back to kisser vs not. The kisser is a very specific point on the string. Touching your nose to the string is not.

 

[Billy Goat]

You shouldn't have to change your anchor to shoot different distances. I'm curious about who thought that was necessary. I'm not saying they couldn't learn to make it work for them, but that's not the same as being necessary.

I'm saying your anchor slips, it has to. Now, most people probably don't realize it does, it's not something drastic, but to have a straight line with all these points, things hafta move.


Nose touching the string is just a reference for most.

Olympic archers, it's part of the anchor.

 

[jimh406]

I'm saying your anchor slips, it has to. Now, most people probably don't realize it does, it's not something drastic, but to have a straight line with all these points, things hafta move.

This is like saying a front rifle sight has to move to shoot different distances if you move the rear sight. it does move relative to the ground, but it's still attached to the barrel.

 

[Billy Goat]

This is like saying a front rifle sight has to move to shoot different distances if you move the rear sight. it does move relative to the ground, but it's still attached to the barrel.

No, it's like saying you pull your head up a little off stock if you raise the elevation of the rear sight. Because otherwise, you wouldn't have your sights lined up.

 

[sndmn11]

Do explain. If you look through your peep and your scope housing is perfectly aligned, then you slide your sight from 20-100 yards and it's now sitting 2 inches lower than at 20 yards, how can you possibly see the scope through your peep without adjusting anything and just moving your eyes man?

Make a circle with one hand and hold it up on front of your eye a few inches away like a pirate. It's not a tunnel, it's a ring that allows more than one angle of vision. You can keep your head still and your hand still while only moving your eye up and down to understand there's and angular window of vision available.

 

[Billy Goat]

Make a circle with one hand and hold it up on front of your eye a few inches away like a pirate. It's not a tunnel, it's a ring that allows more than one angle of vision. You can keep your head still and your hand still while only moving your eye up and down to understand there's and angular window of vision available.

Try making that circle with your hand an 1/8" or 3/16" and tell me how that angle works.

You won't continue to look through the center.


This is all to create a straight line, you can't move 1 point in a straight line, and still have a straight line.



This isn't using your third knuckle to anchor with instead of your second, but your anchor will shift.

 

[sndmn11]

Try making that circle with your hand an 1/8" or 3/16" and tell me how that angle works.

You won't continue to look through the center.


This is all to create a straight line, you can't move 1 point in a straight line, and still have a straight line.



This isn't using your third knuckle to anchor with instead of your second, but your anchor will shift.

It works fine, peeps are designed to offer many different angles of sight. That's why most are dished on both ends, and most are offered with only one string groove option. Even the long tube raptor only gives two string groove angle options, yet we can all see through them perfectly centered and circular despite not being a perfect 35 or 40 degrees.

When you adjust the front sight on an AR-15, do you also raise and lower your head to see through the peep? No, absolutely not.

Do you change your anchor point when you adjust the windage on your bow? Turn your head left and right to compensate? No, you maintain your anchor because doing so leads to repeatable precision. You'd be dumbfounded if someone came here talking about their sight being out of windage and everyone said, "well did your turn your head right and left after each adjustment?".

 

[nubraskan]

It works fine, peeps are designed to offer many different angles of sight. That's why most are dished on both ends, and most are offered with only one string groove option. Even the long tube raptor only gives two string groove angle options, yet we can all see through them perfectly centered and circular despite not being a perfect 35 or 40 degrees.

When you adjust the front sight on an AR-15, do you also raise and lower your head to see through the peep? No, absolutely not.

Do you change your anchor point when you adjust the windage on your bow? Turn your head left and right to compensate? No, you maintain your anchor because doing so leads to repeatable precision. You'd be dumbfounded if someone came here talking about their sight being out of windage and everyone said, "well did your turn your head right and left after each adjustment?".

If you moved your front sight on your rifle 3" vertically you'd have to move your head and cheek weld to see it.

 

[sndmn11]

If you moved your front sight on your rifle 3" vertically you'd have to move your head and cheek weld to see it.

Your eyes can't rotate?

You guys are saying you need a different anchor for every distance. Effectively you are advocating for no anchor.

Do you change your anchor when adjusting the windage on your bow sight?

 

[Jon_G]

Your eyes can't rotate?

You guys are saying you need a different anchor for every distance. Effectively you are advocating for no anchor.

Do you change your anchor when adjusting the windage on your bow sight?

You've been nothing but respectful and I don't mean at all to call you out or start an argument. But I just don't see what you are saying. It is impossible to see through your scope housing exactly the same at 20 yards as you do at 80 yards if you slide your sight down. I don't get what you mean by "rotate your eyes". I am only replying to you for the sake of learning more and to see if you may know something I don't. Which I have only been shooting for 2 years so I am not a great archer by any means. But I just don't see how what you're saying makes sense and it seems there are others that are confused as to what you are saying too.

And as to your point about adjusting your anchor point to adjust windage.... You use the windage adjustments on the sight. So I don't see your point here.

Again, if you care to elaborate by all means.

 

[sndmn11]

And as to your point about adjusting your anchor point to adjust windage.... You use the windage adjustments on the sight. So I don't see your point here.

Again, if you care to elaborate by all means.

Precisely. You are adjusting the windage of the sight, housing and all, while your anchor remains static. The concept is the same as adjusting elevation, however it is being preached that your anchor needs to move when adjusting for elevation. Why do your procedures contradict? You just said it was impossible to move the housing, retain your anchor, but still see through the peep.

You've been nothing but respectful and I don't mean at all to call you out or start an argument. But I just don't see what you are saying. It is impossible to see through your scope housing exactly the same at 20 yards as you do at 80 yards if you slide your sight down. I don't get what you mean by "rotate your eyes". I

Rotate your eyes = keep your head static (anchors in real life are solid, hence the term) and move your eyes. You do it all day everyday and even in your sleep, there no reason to fight it when shooting a bow.

 

[nubraskan]

Your eyes can't rotate?

You guys are saying you need a different anchor for every distance. Effectively you are advocating for no anchor.

Do you change your anchor when adjusting the windage on your bow sight?

Here's a napkin drawing of what I'm thinking:


When sliding the sight down for longer distances the slider will not be centered in the peep, or if shooting long enough distance (or using a slower bow speed) the sight will be almost completely out of the peep picture. As shown in my napkin drawing, you would have to "move your eye up" in order to see the housing through the peep. Since you can't really do that, you end up moving the peep down / rotating the bow with the sight as the center of rotation (since your sight is going to be fixed on the target). When you rotate the bow / strings with the sight at the center, it will have to lengthen the anchor distance.