NM Bill with NR Allotments

[TXCO]

Saw this on another forum and go to page 122. https://www.nmlegis.gov/Sessions/21 Regular/bills/senate/SB0312.pdf

NM is proposing to eliminate the outfitter pool and go minimum 90% tags to residents by hunt code in 2022. This is better for us DIY hunters especially after the fractional tag ruling. So a NR could get a tag if the code has at least 10 tags and there is no preference to outfitters. It will be interesting if this passes.

 

[deerhunt1988]

Very rare for me to say in today's world, but this is one proposal that has my full support!

 

[NoWiser]

That makes way too much sense to actually pass.

 

[roadrunner]

First step in trying to improve the tourism industry...

 

[Stubborn_bowhunter]

Holy shit I was just telling someone this morning that if they cut the outfitter pool it'd be better. Even if it goes to NR. Good outfitters will still get business. Bad outfitters shouldn't have a business. Weird coincidence.
Gonna read through it, but from face value I support this as a resident. Too many trash outfitters. Rather the tags to diy then hire a good guide if you really need one. Rather than be extorted into using shady ones for the pool.

EDIT: I don't support this bill because of all the shady shit they snuck into it. I liked the tag changes, but it seems to be a very much anti hunting bill.

 

[mlgc20]

That would be fantastic. Would also like to see them restore the NR youth cow elk hunt tags. They took those away a couple of years ago and gave the tags to resident Seniors. But, I get them looking out for the residents.

 

[FLAK]

As it should be.
DUH!!!!

 

[Ten Bears]

This proposal falls short in my opinion. Currently NR's has 6% of tags set aside as I read it. 10% for those who apply through the guide draw.

So now NR will still only get less than 10% of the tags allotted ? This would be easier to get behind if NR's got 16% of the tags to at least equal what was set aside before in the guide+nr draw.

 

[Stubborn_bowhunter]

This proposal falls short in my opinion. Currently NR's has 6% of tags set aside as I read it. 10% for those who apply through the guide draw.

So now NR will still only get less than 10% of the tags allotted ? This would be easier to get behind if NR's got 16% of the tags to at least equal what was set aside before in the guide+nr draw.

Residents also put in with outfitter pools. It's not just non resident

 

[Ten Bears]

Residents also put in with outfitter pools. It's not just non resident

I understand that, I would wager the number is highly slanted to the NR side though. A 1 to 3 percent increase in tags doesn’t move the needle. At least with the guide draw you have the option to increase odds. This new system wouldn’t do much for that.

 

[BBob]

I'd expect big pushback from the outfitters. In the past they've been pretty successful lobbying for their position. I'd love to see it happen though, might get rid of some of the expense and shady deals we have to go through just to get into the field with better odds in the guide pool. While I'd like to see more than 10% NR it's what we have for AZ so I can't bitch on that.

 

[Stubborn_bowhunter]

I understand that, I would wager the number is highly slanted to the NR side though. A 1 to 3 percent increase in tags doesn’t move the needle. At least with the guide draw you have the option to increase odds. This new system wouldn’t do much for that.

I agree. I'd like NR to get 16%. But this is a step in the right direction. Weeds out shifty outfitters. And opens up dialogue for more non resident tags to bring in more money.

The two days in the field was a good attempt at forcing them to actually guide when making money off the pool, but I feel this is a more permanent way of cutting off those shady ones.

 

[roadrunner]

I understand that, I would wager the number is highly slanted to the NR side though. A 1 to 3 percent increase in tags doesn’t move the needle. At least with the guide draw you have the option to increase odds. This new system wouldn’t do much for that.

Most states do a 90/10 split. Pretty common actually.

 

[Ten Bears]

Most states do a 90/10 split. Pretty common actually.

Yep. It’s common. I get that. What I am saying is if you are going to get rid of the guide draw which helps non residents make it worth it. Just because there are scrub guides why cancel the extra chances you get through that draw. Maybe they should police their current guide requirements better instead of taking it away.

I have applied through the guide draw multiple times, never have drawn. But for Gila tags and quality units it’s nice to have that option. Those extra odds have definitely made me open up to hiring a guide for that opportunity when normally I wouldn’t have. This is coming from a diy solo guy.

 

[npm352]

Yep. It’s common. I get that. What I am saying is if you are going to get rid of the guide draw which helps non residents make it worth it. Just because there are scrub guides why cancel the extra chances you get through that draw. Maybe they should police their current guide requirements better instead of taking it away.

I have applied through the guide draw multiple times, never have drawn. But for Gila tags and quality units it’s nice to have that option. Those extra odds have definitely made me open up to hiring a guide for that opportunity when normally I wouldn’t have. This is coming from a diy solo guy.

I think all NR would rather have 16% over 10% for general NR draw. Additionally, many do not like outfitter welfare on principle: it robs opportunity and interferes a with free market which lowers overall quality for people who want an outfitter.

But part of passing a bill is give and take, and the residents who are the actual constituents of those voting need something to get behind this. Residents end with more tags (6% more)...that is what they get. Resident outfitters will now have to have a track record of producing to do well and NR DIY guys get a crack at more tags. The bill was not written with the intent of ending outfitter welfare for residents while only benefiting NR.

 

[Ten Bears]

Correct me if I am wrong. But as I interpret this NR will end up with “less than 10%” of tags. Residents will get the rest and the guide draw will be eliminated. So non residents don’t really gain much of anything. They just lose one more tool, albeit a flawed one.

The easy fix for this is to flip the non res and guide draw allotments. 6% guide draw and 10 % non resident. You increase NR odds, still help local guides, and hopefully shake some dead branches off the guide tree.

 

[Stubborn_bowhunter]

Correct me if I am wrong. But as I interpret this NR will end up with “less than 10%” of tags. Residents will get the rest and the guide draw will be eliminated. So non residents don’t really gain much of anything. They just lose one more tool, albeit a flawed one.

The easy fix for this is to flip the non res and guide draw allotments. 6% guide draw and 10 % non resident. You increase NR odds, still help local guides, and hopefully shake some dead branches off the guide tree.

10% for non resident unless it's something with an amount of tags that can't equate to that perfectly. Then it's at the discretion of game and fish give the tag to either/or. If you're not paying 2k+ for outfitter pool then it's not really a big help lol.

 

[Steven.Elmore]

Look at the numbers...
Tags Drawn 2020 (All Seasons)
Total- 22,371
Res-19,849
NR- 1,022
OP- 1,500

1st Choice Apps
Res- 58,821
NR- 13,353
OP- 9,159

In 2020 rough odds for a NR were .076% (1,022/13,353). The proposed change if say 10% of the outfitter pool are residents would increase odds to .104%(2,237/21,596). Those are rough quick look numbers, take out the units without 10 tags or the tags only a resident is able to draw and it lowers it even more. Add to the fact they're talking about redoing the eplus system and making the unit wide tags from smaller landowners only available to residents and it tightens that number up even more. A lot of NR either use that system as a backup or a complete bypass to the draw each year. I don't think that'll happen but if it does we'll be right back where we started as Non Residents.

Also to note is if you look at the tags the residents apply for and talk to some of them they mostly apply for the best units and then complain about never drawing a tag. There's no strategy. Over 5500 residents didn't put in a 3rd choice, over 15,000 applied for 3,000 tags in the Gila and 34/36. I get it but don't complain if you only put one unit or the hardest to draw units as your only choices. Let's be honest the only reason they're looking at these things are people complaining about residents not having opportunity.

I get it, I do but they also have to look at the non resident license sales contribution to department funding and the infusion of non resident money into the local economy. I love New Mexico, hunted tags I've drawn, bought, public, private, and with an outfitter over the last 25 years. Considering NM is probably the poorest of the "elk" states, no basis on that, just observation, I think they need to sell as many NR tags as possible each year. Don't even get me started on the litter in the forest there, I've went in behind way more locals and picked up trash than non residents, that comparison is not even close. Rant over........

 

[Stubborn_bowhunter]

Add to the fact they're talking about redoing the eplus system and making the unit wide tags from smaller landowners only available to residents and it tightens that number up even more. A lot of NR either use that system as a backup or a complete bypass to the draw each year. I don't think that'll happen but if it does we'll be right back where we started as Non Residents.

Where do you see the info on the landowner tags?

 

[roadrunner]

The NR pool will really increase by 4% from only 6%. The outfitter pool has no set designation for NR allocations and for kicks and giggles, lets say it is 6%. By eliminating the outfitter pool, NR's now have a better chance at drawing without a contract and high deposit.