New Idea For Game Management

[bluetick78]

You can restrict hunting all you want and you would see a minimal population increase. When you get a 90-95 percent fawn mortality winter, all gains will be lost. A 15-20 percent success rate is a whole lot different than a 90 percent kill off.

Fair enough. I've believed all my life that habitat and winters manage game populations more than any other factor. I guess I'm missing what part of this idea is more restrictive. It's a give-and-take. Shorter season with point restrictions; but you can hunt any unit. Seems fair, but maybe I'm missing something.

 

[CorbLand]

Fair enough. I've believed all my life that habitat and winters manage game populations more than any other factor. I guess I'm missing what part of this idea is more restrictive. It's a give-and-take. Shorter season with point restrictions; but you can hunt any unit. Seems fair, but maybe I'm missing something.

Taking away the ability to hunt cows and does...that's a lot of opportunity to hunt that would be lost.

By OTC, would those tags be unlimited so everyone could buy one? If so, how would you cap NR at 5%? If not, how many tags would be sold compared to what is currently available per species?

Only able to hunt every other year per species...what if I don't care to hunt elk and only want to hunt deer? Then I would only be able to hunt every other year when I can currently hunt every year...

 

[87TT]

Just after the first read, I shook my head and thought the idea was "full of sh**. After re reading it , my opinion hasn't changed.
1) "opening up the whole state wouldn't work to spread the people out like he thinks. The price of fuel, the time involved. the willingness to put in the work etc.
Back in the "old" days in CA (talking 60's and 70's) you could hunt anywhere in the state. The season was the same all over. Their were very few doe hunts and all of the state was fork horn or better bucks with some three point areas. Gas was cheap so everyone went North on opening weekend or week. There was traffic jams on Hwy 395. everyone hunted the opener and if not successful, went home and kept hammering local. It sounded like duck season on a busy refuge. Success rates haven't changed much except in draw units.

2) the Idea only makes a little sense if there were a lot less hunters and a lot more open habitat that was as good as it was.

3) the hunters wouldn't buy it. Most myself included, like to hunt. I don't want to have "less" time in the field or wait all year to pigeonhole my hunt into shorter window. I like the opportunity to hunt in different weather conditions. Be in the woods pursuing my quarry in different seasons.

4) the areas in Idaho that are draw are that way for a reason. Some are because that is all the area will support. And some are a nod to the hunters that want a better shot at a trophy or large animal.
5) the farmers and ranchers, who feed us, would not support it and I don't blame them.

In conclusion, still no

 

[Marble]

When I have hunted units with a 3 or 4 point restriction, I end up seeing several dead bucks that don't meet the point restriction. I would like to see some more mature bucks, but there are a lot of hunters that just see horns and blast away. It's not right, it's not what I do, but it's what I have seen.

 

[Dwnw/theAltitudesickness]

State I used to hunt introduced a doe season, and then made tags either sex few years later. The overall age class of bucks went up and most people who wanted meat stopped shooting yearling bucks.

 

[Crowmangler]

Fair enough. I've believed all my life that habitat and winters manage game populations more than any other factor. I guess I'm missing what part of this idea is more restrictive. It's a give-and-take. Shorter season with point restrictions; but you can hunt any unit. Seems fair, but maybe I'm missing something.

How bout this "give & take" idea...
- every hunter gets a free wolf tag with every elk/ deer tag
- each wolf brought in gets an extra doe/ cow tag
(this may require everyone to keep their German Shepherds in the house for a while though)

 

[bluetick78]

How bout this "give & take" idea...
- every hunter gets a free wolf tag with every elk/ deer tag
- each wolf brought in gets an extra doe/ cow tag
(this may require everyone to keep their German Shepherds in the house for a while though)

I like it

 

[bluetick78]

Taking away the ability to hunt cows and does...that's a lot of opportunity to hunt that would be lost.

By OTC, would those tags be unlimited so everyone could buy one? If so, how would you cap NR at 5%? If not, how many tags would be sold compared to what is currently available per species?

Only able to hunt every other year per species...what if I don't care to hunt elk and only want to hunt deer? Then I would only be able to hunt every other year when I can currently hunt every year...

You're right. Lots of details to work out. If you only liked to hunt one species, it would definitely limit your opportunity.

 

[WCB]

I'll say it for the 40millionth time...in 90% of situations there are ZERO reasons to kill Mule Deer does or Pronghorn does. Guys worrying about losing that type of opportunity you can fill the void with paying someone to let them shoot their pet goat.

 

[Customweld]

Fair enough. I've believed all my life that habitat and winters manage game populations more than any other factor. I guess I'm missing what part of this idea is more restrictive. It's a give-and-take. Shorter season with point restrictions; but you can hunt any unit. Seems fair, but maybe I'm missing something.

Restrict was a bad word choice on my part.

 

[Andrew12gauge]

You lost me when you lumped Idaho and Wyoming together and said “nearly 1/3 of the state is managed under controlled hunt only” there are like 5 controlled hunt only mule deer units in Idaho and probably another 4 that should be since it makes no sense to kill every 2 point if you want trophy deer. Wyoming might have a few more controlled hunts for deer and elk but it is mostly general as well.

And no I don’t think mule deer are a dying species as you do. Yes we just had a real tough winter in some areas, yes herds are down across a lot of the west, but the deer that survived this winter are going to see better range conditions, raise a healthier next generation of deer, and there is a lot of work being done toward improving mule deer habitat right now. If we could stop the encroachment of subdivisions(build a wall around the states of California, Oregon and Washington ) on mule deer winter range it would go a long way.


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[Pony Soldier]

You just can't imagine how much I hate to type.

Game should be managed for a purpose. If you are managing for trophies then you are likely going to have to limit the access to that population. Most do that through limited tag issuance. The support for that abnormal population of over- mature animals are the females which have to be balanced with the available ranges. As well as the conflicts between private range and public range.

In the normal populations, you hope for age distribution as well as sex given the available habitat. I have seen populations in southwestern Montana that prior to the "no spike rule" that every male was killed within three days. Only the most paranoid males in heavy timber seem to survive. Under these conditions then the calf crop starts to look like 10% of optimum. However I've seen reports on bear predation in Idaho that could mean a 80-90% calf crop that don't live long enough to keep a herd healthy.

Where I hunt there are a few older trophy bulls. Stress--- FEW!!! The population dynamics are usually 2-5 year olds (bulls). If there is a lot of pressure during the rut, there is a very good chance there are only spikes left alive by rifle season. When a dominant bull is removed the population dynamics change radically and you may not find anything 'normal' for a number of years.

In open country, there are few places for them to hide especially with 1,000-1,500 yd shooters. Now they are all on private land. Add wolves to heavy snow and life looks like yellowstone. I think I remember 19,000 elk turned into bloody snow in just a few years.

What has been proposed here fits a terminal population that you are trying to drag back from the edge of extinction. Much like we saw in the 30s. Hunting was still pretty thin into the 60's at least in western Mt. I certainly hope the 'catch and release' mentallity of the Mt FWP can adapt to game management before we have to start over.

 

[Rich M]

If everyone loves the animals so much - Shut-R-Down. Let em recover.

If we're really covering all options and the animals come first...

(I'm hunting this year, full disclaimer)

 

[Customweld]

You just can't imagine how much I hate to type.

Game should be managed for a purpose. If you are managing for trophies then you are likely going to have to limit the access to that population. Most do that through limited tag issuance. The support for that abnormal population of over- mature animals are the females which have to be balanced with the available ranges. As well as the conflicts between private range and public range.

In the normal populations, you hope for age distribution as well as sex given the available habitat. I have seen populations in southwestern Montana that prior to the "no spike rule" that every male was killed within three days. Only the most paranoid males in heavy timber seem to survive. Under these conditions then the calf crop starts to look like 10% of optimum. However I've seen reports on bear predation in Idaho that could mean a 80-90% calf crop that don't live long enough to keep a herd healthy.

Where I hunt there are a few older trophy bulls. Stress--- FEW!!! The population dynamics are usually 2-5 year olds (bulls). If there is a lot of pressure during the rut, there is a very good chance there are only spikes left alive by rifle season. When a dominant bull is removed the population dynamics change radically and you may not find anything 'normal' for a number of years.

In open country, there are few places for them to hide especially with 1,000-1,500 yd shooters. Now they are all on private land. Add wolves to heavy snow and life looks like yellowstone. I think I remember 19,000 elk turned into bloody snow in just a few years.

What has been proposed here fits a terminal population that you are trying to drag back from the edge of extinction. Much like we saw in the 30s. Hunting was still pretty thin into the 60's at least in western Mt. I certainly hope the 'catch and release' mentallity of the Mt FWP can adapt to game management before we have to start over.

Well thought out comment.

 

[bluetick78]

You lost me when you lumped Idaho and Wyoming together and said “nearly 1/3 of the state is managed under controlled hunt only” there are like 5 controlled hunt only mule deer units in Idaho and probably another 4 that should be since it makes no sense to kill every 2 point if you want trophy deer. Wyoming might have a few more controlled hunts for deer and elk but it is mostly general as well.

And no I don’t think mule deer are a dying species as you do. Yes we just had a real tough winter in some areas, yes herds are down across a lot of the west, but the deer that survived this winter are going to see better range conditions, raise a healthier next generation of deer, and there is a lot of work being done toward improving mule deer habitat right now. If we could stop the encroachment of subdivisions(build a wall around the states of California, Oregon and Washington ) on mule deer winter range it would go a long way.


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For rifle hunts, there's a lot more than 5 units in Idaho that are controlled. 70, 78, 30, 54, 55, 45, 46, etc. I don't feel that mule deer are nearing extinction, I know that they could be managed better. An aggressive predator management system would help.

 

[S.Clancy]

The game is going to come back regardless given the habitat is adequate and the game agencies show a minimum amount of restraint as far as tag allocations to keep them out of a "predator pit".

 

[t_carlson]

How bout this "give & take" idea...
- every hunter gets a free wolf tag with every elk/ deer tag
- each wolf brought in gets an extra doe/ cow tag
(this may require everyone to keep their German Shepherds in the house for a while though)

The only way that would work is for every wolf KILLED you get a buck or bull tag. Wolves require too much time and/or luck to make doe/cow tags an incentive.