New MT Mule Deer Rifle Season

[Formidilosus]

simple.. when you have a desired amount of hunters then every year more bucks escape. lets say a unit produces 300 bucks a year with unlimited hunters Otc. You then give out 200 permits and say 60% are successful. do this every year for 5 years and the quality and number of bucks will be substantial higher

That’s not “helping” bucks out. That’s just making it more likely for you to see higher scoring deer. There’s a difference. “Helping” bucks out, would be reducing predator populations dramatically, and for houses to stop being built on wintering grounds.

 

[Formidilosus]

Do you also get archery season in your state because here we get 6 weeks of archery 6 weeks of rifle and 10 days of the heritage muzzleloader season. I know it will never be shortened on this state you can see peoples reactions. The I’ve always hunted thru the rut. So why not tweak tags and weapon restrictions to keep this long season everyone wants so much

The long season in most of the state isn’t in jeopardy unless the “I want to see people shoot normal 4x4’s” crowd get their way. The herd numbers are determined by the amount of females. If the herd size is too small, stop issuing doe tags.

 

[Formidilosus]

What 30-50 year old man they all died in the war of thanksgiving last year


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So again it’s not- “it’s for the deer!” Instead it’s- “I don’t like people shooting smaller bucks”.


At no point have I commented on this forum about seasons or hunting in general with regards to tags until this year. However it is becoming more obvious for the push by “trophy” hunters and the “I want a special season just for me” hunters, to change the seasons/structure to fit what they want. And more and more people are being disingenuous about the reason why. Stop lying and claiming that it is about herd “health”. It is 100% only, and solely about not liking to see people shoot bucks that you don’t believe are big enough.

 

[Clark33]

Looked at a popular mule deer unit it WA just for some numbers.
General rifle season is Oct. 16-26:
Number of Hunters: 1,551
Deer Harvested: 198
Success Rate: 13%

The unit also has a limited quota rut hunt, Rifle is Nov 1-20 with 15 permits, Archery is Nov 21-30 with 30 Permits. State website didn't break up those hunts when giving the data. But they had the total Limited quota harvests at 20 bucks harvest. So...
Number of Hunters: 45
Bucks Harvested: 20
Success Rate: 44%


Pretty big difference in success rate between the two seasons. Shouldn't they be the same?

If the general rifle season ran through Nov. 20 would there still only be a total of 220 give or take a few harvested? I'm struggling to see how a shorter general season means same amount of deer harvested in a smaller window, especially if you take the rut out of the season. Where could I read up on these studies that confirm so?

 

[sneaky]

Looked at a popular mule deer unit it WA just for some numbers.
General rifle season is Oct. 16-26:
Number of Hunters: 1,551
Deer Harvested: 198
Success Rate: 13%

The unit also has a limited quota rut hunt, Rifle is Nov 1-20 with 15 permits, Archery is Nov 21-30 with 30 Permits. State website didn't break up those hunts when giving the data. But they had the total Limited quota harvests at 20 bucks harvest. So...
Number of Hunters: 45
Bucks Harvested: 20
Success Rate: 44%


Pretty big difference in success rate between the two seasons. Shouldn't they be the same?

If the general rifle season ran through Nov. 20 would there still only be a total of 220 give or take a few harvested? I'm struggling to see how a shorter general season means same amount of deer harvested in a smaller window, especially if you take the rut out of the season. Where could I read up on these studies that confirm so?

The November hunts are rut hunts, that's why you see the jump from 13% success to 44% success. I'd guess that the majority of those 20 bucks killed in Nov were with a rifle. If you turned 1500 rifle hunters loose in that unit during Nov you'd have far more than 220 deer killed.

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[S.Clancy]

This is just a sample of the bucks we've killed in the last 5 or so yrs in MT. Obviously we need to change the seasons up....

 

[cgasner1]

This is just a sample of the bucks we've killed in the last 5 or so yrs in MT. Obviously we need to change the seasons up....

Nice bucks. So do I post pictures of the ones I’ve killed in October now? To show they don’t need to be killed in the rut


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[Sioux33]

So again it’s not- “it’s for the deer!” Instead it’s- “I don’t like people shooting smaller bucks”.


At no point have I commented on this forum about seasons or hunting in general with regards to tags until this year. However it is becoming more obvious for the push by “trophy” hunters and the “I want a special season just for me” hunters, to change the seasons/structure to fit what they want. And more and more people are being disingenuous about the reason why. Stop lying and claiming that it is about herd “health”. It is 100% only, and solely about not liking to see people shoot bucks that you don’t believe are big enough.

This isn't about "trophy hunters" or "I want a season just for me" hunters. It's about MT FWP ignoring the downward trend of the past 10 years, skyrocketing number of new resident hunters and new age technology. It's not a sustainable season long term and a lot of people believe we should be proactive, not reactive.

Again, if it's such a great idea, why aren't we requesting WY, ID, and CO to open the floodgates all through November. Or is it just that some folks want a rut hunt with a rifle to extend their season after they're home state shuts down? If so, isn't that an "I want a season just for me" approach?

 

[S.Clancy]

Nice bucks. So do I post pictures of the ones I’ve killed in October now? To show they don’t need to be killed in the rut


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Sure, I like looking at nice bucks!

 

[ewade07]

This is just a sample of the bucks we've killed in the last 5 or so yrs in MT. Obviously we need to change the seasons up....

Don’t forget these ones cuz!

 

[cgasner1]

One of these I shot during rifle with my bow
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[cgasner1]

I’ve killed a couple once in a lifetime bucks. Been very fortunate to capitalize on some opportunities those are public land. I realize I’ll probably never kill a bigger one and don’t care but with what I’m seeing in the woods right now I don’t see how this is sustainable. I want those changes for my boys because proactive is going to be a much better choice


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[Formidilosus]

This isn't about "trophy hunters" or "I want a season just for me" hunters. It's about MT FWP ignoring the downward trend of the past 10 years, skyrocketing number of new resident hunters and new age technology. It's not a sustainable season long term and a lot of people believe we should be proactive, not reactive.

There are way more deer across Montana now than 2010. The deer numbers are literally higher than objective in most regions.

Again, if it's such a great idea, why aren't we requesting WY, ID, and CO to open the floodgates all through November. Or is it just that some folks want a rut hunt with a rifle to extend their season after they're home state shuts down? If so, isn't that an "I want a season just for me" approach?

Because those states are filled with people that would rather not hunt some years, and draw every once in a while- as long as they don’t have to work hard to see a big buck.

 

[cgasner1]

There are way more deer across Montana now than 2010. The deer numbers are literally higher than objective in most regions.




Because those states are filled with people that would rather not hunt some years, and draw every once in a while- as long as they don’t have to work hard to see a big buck.

Pretty sure all those states literally have otc opportunities for both residents and non


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[Formidilosus]

I’ve killed a couple once in a lifetime bucks. Been very fortunate to capitalize on some opportunities those are public land. I realize I’ll probably never kill a bigger one and don’t care but with what I’m seeing in the woods right now I don’t see how this is sustainable. I want those changes for my boys because proactive is going to be a much better choice


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Proactive for what? The deer numbers are just fine in the vast majority of the state.

 

[S.Clancy]

One of these I shot during rifle with my bow
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Those are some nice bucks!!! Man, I cant wait till hunting season!

 

[cgasner1]

Proactive for what? The deer numbers are just fine in the vast majority of the state.

How long have you been hunting this state? I’ve noticed a decline in numbers a significant decline I believe it’s from multiple reasons and if you wanna shoot a deer so bad get some b tags in a over objective unit because soon enough there won’t be enough bucks to get the does breed


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[Sioux33]

There are way more deer across Montana now than 2010. The deer numbers are literally higher than objective in most regions.




Because those states are filled with people that would rather not hunt some years, and draw every once in a while- as long as they don’t have to work hard to see a big buck.

There's a huge difference between over objective and over objective on public land. Public land gets beat to death for 11 weeks here, unlike states that actually manage their seasons.

All those states allow residents to draw a tag every year, they just don't go balls to the walls thru Nov like MT does. Again, if it was such a great idea, they'd be adopting it too...

 

[cgasner1]

Those are some nice bucks!!! Man, I cant wait till hunting season!

Thanks like I’ve said I’m not against hunting the rut I just hate the free for all on our state I’d love to see either draw tags or a weapon restrictions. And move that youth hunt into the thanksgiving break and let the kids have it I feel like they would have a much better hunt with bucks moving during the rut


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[Formidilosus]

There's a huge difference between over objective and over objective on public land. Public land gets beat to death for 11 weeks here, unlike states that actually manage their seasons.

So you’re not seeing deer during the season?