New MT Mule Deer Rifle Season

[MT257]

I think we could accomplish a lot by drastically reducing vehicle pressure on public lands during hunting season. This would maintain opportunity, albeit walking, and give animals more security cover. Imagine the Custer, or any big BLM piece, with only 10-20% of the roads....

FWP has worked with land managenment agencies in the past on MVU's, why not take that step?

Well you better start by contacting your offices in D.C. nothing will happen in that regard outta Helena.

 

[cgasner1]

I think we could accomplish a lot by drastically reducing vehicle pressure on public lands during hunting season. This would maintain opportunity, albeit walking, and give animals more security cover. Imagine the Custer, or any big BLM piece, with only 10-20% of the roads....

FWP has worked with land managenment agencies in the past on MVU's, why not take that step?

I’ve asked that and the response I got was most hunters only hike a mile or so by closing roads in that forest you’ll crest busy trail heads such as in Colorado and cause a bottle knock of people only hunting certain areas


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Schaaf]

I could be completely off base but I believe the general perception among the majority of hunters that are asking for a change is simply based on the increase, perceived or real, amount of hunters on the landscape-specifically public land.

Would a season structure change something along the lines of a pick your weapon along with a prerut and rut season increase the age diversity? I think it probably would while in reality keeping the same amount of deer harvested each year.

 

[Montana Slim]

I think we could accomplish a lot by drastically reducing vehicle pressure on public lands during hunting season. This would maintain opportunity, albeit walking, and give animals more security cover. Imagine the Custer, or any big BLM piece, with only 10-20% of the roads....

FWP has worked with land managenment agencies in the past on MVU's, why not take that step?

This would be fantastic... just in general

 

[S.Clancy]

I could be completely off base but I believe the general perception among the majority of hunters that are asking for a change is simply based on the increase, perceived or real, amount of hunters on the landscape-specifically public land.

Would a season structure change something along the lines of a pick your weapon along with a prerut and rut season increase the age diversity? I think it probably would while in reality keeping the same amount of deer harvested each year.

I think you could look at other states and make an informed decision, but it would take some significant data crunching.

I also think we make clear that those changes would be for sociological reasons, not biological.

Edit: Here's a similar study from within the department discussing some of those items.

 

[Schaaf]

I think you could look at other states and make an informed decision, but it would take some significant data crunching.

I also think we make clear that those changes would be for sociological reasons, not biological.

Like I told @brocksw this morning. The conversation has to start with, "so you think there are too many hunters on the landscape, here are some of the options."

 

[S.Clancy]

Like I told @brocksw this morning. The conversation has to start with, "so you think there are too many hunters on the landscape, here are some of the options."

Yes

Tho I would add I'd like to avoid managing for sociological reasons, for the most part.

 

[Schaaf]

Yes

Tho I would add I'd like to avoid managing for sociological reasons, for the most part.

To be fair, that’s what our entire season structure is based on- public opinion.

 

[S.Clancy]

To be fair, that’s what our entire season structure is based on- public opinion.

 

[Lawnboi]

Everyone advocating for more strict buck harvest (whatever method you choose) should take note of the last paragraph. If that guy can't make a strong argument for more mature bucks on the landscape providing a measurable benefit to the population, there isn't one to be made. Dr. Monteith is a top shelf mule deer researcher.

Did you read the same last paragraph I did?

 

[Lawnboi]

I think we could accomplish a lot by drastically reducing vehicle pressure on public lands during hunting season. This would maintain opportunity, albeit walking, and give animals more security cover. Imagine the Custer, or any big BLM piece, with only 10-20% of the roads....

FWP has worked with land managenment agencies in the past on MVU's, why not take that step?

This could fix all the problems in a lot of areas.

 

[S.Clancy]

Did you read the same last paragraph I did?

I think so, Dr. Monteith basically said there may be some small benefits to more mature bucks (big maybe) but biologically females are much more important than bucks.

 

[Lawnboi]

I think so, Dr. Monteith basically said there may be some small benefits to more mature bucks (big maybe) but biologically females are much more important than bucks.

He really only mentions that in a few sentences but the other two paragraphs say it really dosnt matter. Sounds like he is unsure if age of the males makes any difference.

“So, from that biological aspect, it doesn’t matter too much.”

“Often, desires to maintain mature age structure of males is driven by stakeholder desires”

Dr. Monteith solidified a few points people have brought up against changes, and addressed some of the complaints in this thread. From what I read, the gist of it is that it dosnt make a huge difference and is mainly for stakeholders.

I like shooting big deer too I just don’t think we should limit opportunity to do so.

But complaints are across the board. Too many does, too many does killed. Long season, short season.

That said mark my words if Montana did a season like Wyoming does. With that amount of tags. It would be absolutely insane out there.

 

[Clark33]

The November hunts are rut hunts, that's why you see the jump from 13% success to 44% success. I'd guess that the majority of those 20 bucks killed in Nov were with a rifle. If you turned 1500 rifle hunters loose in that unit during Nov you'd have far more than 220 deer killed.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

I know the Nov season is a rut hunt, been trying to draw one myself lol. I agree the harvests would be higher if general season was extended through the rut. I was trying to gain an understanding of how shortening a season (especially if the rut is removed) would result in the same number of deer harvested.

 

[cgasner1]

I know the Nov season is a rut hunt, been trying to draw one myself lol. I agree the harvests would be higher if general season was extended through the rut. I was trying to gain an understanding of how shortening a season (especially if the rut is removed) would result in the same number of deer harvested.

Because a lot of people shoot a buck the last weekend or last day. When you shorten a season it still has a last weekend or last day and those people will always kill whatever they see because they need to kill a deer. Just part of it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Clark33]

Because a lot of people shoot a buck the last weekend or last day. When you shorten a season it still has a last weekend or last day and those people will always kill whatever they see because they need to kill a deer. Just part of it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If the rut is removed from that equation I have a real hard time believing that. I could be wrong, but I’d like to see some studies or statistics that back this up.

 

[cgasner1]

If the rut is removed from that equation I have a real hard time believing that. I could be wrong, but I’d like to see some studies or statistics that back this up.

Guy would just shoot bucks sooner instead of passing on them. I do agree though like I said earlier because those study’s have never been done on a insane long season such as this that removed the rut


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BearGuy]

I think we are really lucky to have all of the hunting opportunities we have.

 

[Erict]

Guy would just shoot bucks sooner instead of passing on them. I do agree though like I said earlier because those study’s have never been done on a insane long season such as this that removed the rut.

I agree. If the season was shortened, public land overcrowding would increase, the average NR hunter would lower expectations, increase the number of days they plan to hunt or both. They may only get to draw every other year, spend a lot of money to travel, on licenses, etc. and often have that need to go home with meat - any meat.

Requiring every kill to be reported would be a valuable addition to other data and would show what dates deer are taken, where, etc. I have hunted deer 6 years in MT and not once have I ever been required to report my kill and never got a phone call asking about my hunt.

NY has had mandatory reporting for many years. It's easy to do over the phone, smart phone or online. It is automated/computerized so it's inexpensive to do. The estimated report rate for 2020 was about 45% on over 250,000 deer killed. Combined with other data they figure they get within 2% accuracy of the actual totals. Doesn't fix the problem, but helps support "science based decisions".

 

[Clark33]

I agree. If the season was shortened, public land overcrowding would increase, the average NR hunter would lower expectations, increase the number of days they plan to hunt or both. They may only get to draw every other year, spend a lot of money to travel, on licenses, etc. and often have that need to go home with meat - any meat.

Requiring every kill to be reported would be a valuable addition to other data and would show what dates deer are taken, where, etc. I have hunted deer 6 years in MT and not once have I ever been required to report my kill and never got a phone call asking about my hunt.

NY has had mandatory reporting for many years. It's easy to do over the phone, smart phone or online. It is automated/computerized so it's inexpensive to do. The estimated report rate for 2020 was about 45% on over 250,000 deer killed. Combined with other data they figure they get within 2% accuracy of the actual totals. Doesn't fix the problem, but helps support "science based decisions".

I think you're underestimating the amount of NR hunters that only hunt MT because its a general season rut hunt. Remove the rut and I'd assume (much like alot of opinions in this thread... assumptions) that NR pressure would reduce. If ruts removed there are other states to hunt in OCT that provide the same if not more public land and some may argue better genetics.

I don't know any NR hunter that hunts MT in October for mule deer with a rifle.