New MT Mule Deer Rifle Season

[S.Clancy]

I'm pretty sure the 40% decrease was in R7, due to extreme drought conditions. Same reason they decreased antelope tags in R7. R6 mule deer populations are above average at this time.

 

[MT257]

I'm pretty sure the 40% decrease was in R7, due to extreme drought conditions. Same reason they decreased antelope tags in R7. R6 mule deer populations are above average at this time.

No it was R6, they had the biologist from Glasgow get on there and explain it. It was when they had technical diffucuties with the communication and was later asked to clarify what that 40% meant.

 

[S.Clancy]

Data from FWP. Note the nearly 40,000 aninal decrease from 2020 to 2021 in R7. Numbers are still above the years after the winter of 2010.

 

[S.Clancy]

No it was R6, they had the biologist from Glasgow get on there and explain it. It was when they had technical diffucuties with the communication and was later asked to clarify what that 40% meant.

I just posted mule deer trend data, it was R7.

 

[MT257]

Well its on the recorded stream from the commission meeting. Not sure that a R6 bio would be reporting R7 information.

 

[S.Clancy]

Well its on the recorded stream from the commission meeting. Not sure that a R6 bio would be reporting R7 information.

I haven't listened to whole recording, but the bio could have mispoke or been referencing some other data (fawn recruitment, hunter harvested deer, etc)

 

[MT257]

I haven't listened to whole recording, but the bio could have mispoke or been referencing some other data (fawn recruitment, hunter harvested deer, etc)

Well from looking at the document you posted, it was generated 9-18-21. They had not conducted their aerials they spoke about in the meeting as it is done after season in December/January time frame. So from that I would guess the most current counts arent in those tables/charts/graphs.

 

[cgasner1]

Would also add after having many conversations with a forest service guy here that happens to be a mule deer nut he told me that deer are like people. Most bucks will peak in the 150-160” due to genetics. There is a reason we all aren’t walking around looking like Arnold in his prime and it’s the same for deer.


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[cgasner1]

Ok. Well his statement was that he wants seasons changed so shooting animals which are dumb due to the rut doesn’t happen. If it’s the deer are “dumb” during November, and that’s the reason for no season, then so are all animals during the rut.

I’m not against hunting them in the rut I’m against the absolute free for all this state allows to happen this time of should either be hunted on a draw tag or with some weapon restrictions. The state has like 4 mule deer draw tags would be nice to see some tag that a guy could draw and help those bucks out


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[bigsky2]

The way Montana has been managing deer is not sustainable. I’m in my early 30’s and even just in my lifetime I have seen the quality of the mule deer hunting decrease drastically. I know NR tags are capped, but people are coming and hunting longer and harder now. People have long range guns and range finders. There’s more people moving here. There were 20,000 more resident hunting licenses sold this year. Add on the fact that college students can get resident tags, NR native Montanan tags which are unlimited, come home to hunt program, etc., something has to give.

 

[Spoonbill]

I'd be curious to know how many folks in favor of the rifle rut hunt are non-residents.

It's pretty easy to be in favor of it when it extends your season another month after your home state is wrapped up.

Hell, if it's such a good idea, maybe we should start requesting every state in the west to adopt MT's seasons.

I live one state over and I wish we had a longer season, even if it was just another week.
I think habitat loss and competition with whitetails are a bigger issue than longer seasons.

 

[S.Clancy]

Well from looking at the document you posted, it was generated 9-18-21. They had not conducted their aerials they spoke about in the meeting as it is done after season in December/January time frame. So from that I would guess the most current counts arent in those tables/charts/graphs.

Thats possible. I thought they usually did their aerials in Feb-March, but its possible they do it earlier. We wont know until they release the next population data

 

[Formidilosus]

I’m not against hunting them in the rut I’m against the absolute free for all this state allows to happen this time of should either be hunted on a draw tag or with some weapon restrictions. The state has like 4 mule deer draw tags would be nice to see some tag that a guy could draw and help those bucks out


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How is draw tags “helping bucks out”?

 

[Huntnnw]

How is draw tags “helping bucks out”?

simple.. when you have a desired amount of hunters then every year more bucks escape. lets say a unit produces 300 bucks a year with unlimited hunters Otc. You then give out 200 permits and say 60% are successful. do this every year for 5 years and the quality and number of bucks will be substantial higher

 

[cgasner1]

I live one state over and I wish we had a longer season, even if it was just another week.
I think habitat loss and competition with whitetails are a bigger issue than longer seasons.

Do you also get archery season in your state because here we get 6 weeks of archery 6 weeks of rifle and 10 days of the heritage muzzleloader season. I know it will never be shortened on this state you can see peoples reactions. The I’ve always hunted thru the rut. So why not tweak tags and weapon restrictions to keep this long season everyone wants so much


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[bigsky2]

Shooting bucks does not reduce the herd. All the females will get bred regardless. Shooting females certianly does however. All that eliminating the rut portion, or shortening the season does is make it where people that hunt only a few days each season, see bigger deer, easier. That’s it.
It’s the same nonsense that sheep hunting is. People would rather hunt less, but see bigger rams, rather than hunt each year, but see smaller rams. It’s selfish. I say this as someone who didn’t kill a buck this year because I didn’t see one I wanted. In fact I am about 50/50 each year on bucks. If the season were shorter would I see more deer I want or bigger deer? Of course. But that is silly. Every other state does that, I could easily go hunt somewhere else, or put in for LE units if that’s what I wanted.


Not only that, but shortening the season concentrates the same amount of people into smaller windows which will greatly and noticeably increase the amount of pressure and people you see. It also causes more people to shoot the first animal they see because they feel they don’t have enough time to let one pass. That’s real, and it’s noticeable. Shortening season has the exact opposite effect of what people thinks it does.

MT’s season structure is good and different than most. Opportunity over “trophy”. People that want to hunt big deer are free to do so, people that just want to hunt are free to do so, and people that want to hunt more than a week or two are free to do so as well.

This should say "people that want to hunt unicorns on public land are free to do so." Everyone always says, "we don't want our seasons to be like Colorado". Well there's a lot of changes that could be made short of making our seasons like Colorado that would make a huge difference. Montana could restructure their general season to be the the entire month of October, and it would still be more opportunity than every other mule deer state. Hell even leaving the season length the same and just shifting the dates forward a couple weeks would be a huge improvement. Hunting deer in October is actually hunting. Driving around on Thanksgiving weekend and shooting a buck that has its nose up a doe's ass with no care in the world is easy.

I said it on another forum- I equate Montana's mule deer population to what it would be like if our human population was sustained by teenage boys screwing 30-50 year old women. Sure you can maintain a population that way, but it doesn't mean it's right.

 

[Cascade340]

This should say "people that want to hunt unicorns on public land are free to do so." Everyone always says, "we don't want our seasons to be like Colorado". Well there's a lot of changes that could be made short of making our seasons like Colorado that would make a huge difference. Montana could restructure their general season to be the the entire month of October, and it would still be more opportunity than every other mule deer state. Hell even leaving the season length the same and just shifting the dates forward a couple weeks would be a huge improvement. Hunting deer in October is actually hunting. Driving around on Thanksgiving weekend and shooting a buck that has its nose up a doe's ass with no care in the world is easy.

I said it on another forum- I equate Montana's mule deer population to what it would be like if our human population was sustained by teenage boys screwing 30-50 year old women. Sure you can maintain a population that way, but it doesn't mean it's right.

So you want to change the season dates because it’s too “easy”? If it’s that easy for you then you have the freedom to only hunt in October before the rut when it’s “real hunting”.
And I’m pretty sure teenage boys are more fertile than a 30-50 year old man lol.

 

[cgasner1]

So you want to change the season dates because it’s too “easy”? If it’s that easy for you then you have the freedom to only hunt in October before the rut when it’s “real hunting”.
And I’m pretty sure teenage boys are more fertile than a 30-50 year old man lol.

What 30-50 year old man they all died in the war of thanksgiving last year


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[Ryansven]

The problem with the way states manage wildlife especially species that are more sensitive then other species, or less resilient, is they manage on the reactive prospective instead of being proactive. By the time management decisions are made it is to the point of no return to what it used to be. Now obviously their are multiple other factors to this however, this is a factor we can address better then we have historically. What Montana has set up now is not sustainable in the long run.

 

[sneaky]

You sure about this? Most states east of the Mississippi river have their rifle season during the rut as does Texas. I really don’t see the disadvantage to having a rifle season for bucks during the rut outside of people thinking it’s not “fair”.

Because comparing whitetail populations and habitat carrying capacity to mule deer just doesn't work. Whitetail populations are exploding, mule deer populations are declining.

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