New MT Mule Deer Rifle Season

[Spoonbill]

It just seams like people are upset when they don't see giant bucks day after day. If you're not seeing what you're looking for, look harder. I haven't killed a giant buck but I've killed mature bucks that I've been happy with. And I know people that hunt much harder than I do that do kill real nice bucks year after year.

That seems to be an issue in other western states as well. Everyone remembers the “glory” days of shooting a giant deer 1/2 mile from the truck. Idaho has a 3 week general season in most of the state and I have heard the same complaints about our deer herds.
As hunters we should be more focused on habitat loss, predator management and other problems affecting herd health rather than limiting hunting opportunities.

 

[Dirtbag]

As hunters we should be more focused on habitat loss, predator management and other problems affecting herd health rather than limiting hunting opportunities.

Couldn't agree more. I hunted Montana in 2021 and had a great hunt. The idea of constantly limiting opportunity is already starting to bite us in the rear end across the west.

I promise you have a better chance killing a big buck in Montana when you have a tag than in all the other states you dont have a tag for, combined.

 

[cgasner1]

I guess I don’t get how people think a 3 month deer season with so much of the state is sustainable. Just out of curiosity did any of you guys catch that news article this week that Fwp actually sold almost 60k non resident tags last year. Seems like that is a issue that should also be addressed


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[sneaky]

I guess I don’t get how people think a 3 month deer season with so much of the state is sustainable. Just out of curiosity did any of you guys catch that news article this week that Fwp actually sold almost 60k non resident tags last year. Seems like that is a issue that should also be addressed


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A lot of that number was from coming home to hunt tags. Actual NR tags are capped, but NR who were born in MT come there to hunt and those tags aren't capped. That's where the discrepancy is coming from. I already read that article btw.

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[deadwolf]

I work with a guy here in alaska who’s originally from Montana. He goes back every year with an elk and deer tag in his pocket but hasn’t lived in MT for over 25 years.


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[PablitoPescador]

A lot of that number was from coming home to hunt tags. Actual NR tags are capped, but NR who were born in MT come there to hunt and those tags aren't capped. That's where the discrepancy is coming from. I already read that article btw.

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Come home to hunt is capped at 500 tags and it has never sold out

 

[Erict]

A lot of that number was from coming home to hunt tags. Actual NR tags are capped, but NR who were born in MT come there to hunt and those tags aren't capped. That's where the discrepancy is coming from.

HTH does not explain the discrepancies, not even close. I am not sure if they added all of the outfitter freebie licenses from last year but the increase in 2021 is stunning. Look at MT 2012-2021 NR Combo License stats

 

[Southforkguy]

Non res here. Keeping a rifle deer hunt open to general public during the rut is absolutely crazy to me. Never hunted Montana but sounds alot like it needs to be cut off Oct 31 and buck tags limited during the rut like every other place in the US

 

[deadwolf]

Come home to hunt is capped at 500 tags and it has never sold out

Are you 100% certain on that number? It used to be 1000 in the not so distant past. I’ll admit I haven’t looked recently

Edit: just looked it up, you are correct, it is now capped at 500. Interesting and I wonder if they reduced it since they weren’t getting enough applicants or if it was for another reason.

But in a way is it still 1000 each of deer and elk tags total?
There are 500 combo, and 500 each of elk and deer. That to me reads like 1000 total of each could be issued.

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[cgasner1]

So why don’t you just hunt with a “primitive weapon” then? Why do you, or anyone needs a special just for me season?

How about you get a tag. The season runs from this date to this date. Have fun.

I don’t want a special just for me season between the resident growth and the weapon advancement just seems crazy to hunt the entire rut for 80% of this state with a general tag. Region 6 had a small decline in population of 40% this year according to fish and game. We are a couple bad winters from our deer really being in a bad way, but let’s not do anything about it now and we can wait another 10 years while things continue to decline


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[beauhunter]

As hunters we should be more focused on habitat loss, predator management and other problems affecting herd health rather than limiting hunting opportunities.

Couldn't have said it better. The landscape here in NW MT has changed a lot in the last 20 years due to fire suppression efforts, the economics of the timber industry, as well as the increase in population. These habitat changes have almost exclusively been detrimental to mule deer.

I was looking through FWP's harvest surveys for the district that I typically hunt in NW MT. Harvest surveys are completed by phone and check station. The check stations are only open Sat & Sun from 11 am until sunset and are spread very thin across the state. The phone surveys are dependent on hunters that are willing to speak w/ FWP. All numbers are reliant on the honesty of those surveyed. Nobody would ever lie about their experience hunting right? So take these numbers for what they are. Since 2004 the average days in the field per hunter has increased from 6 to over 7. The number of hunters afield has stayed fairly constant and perhaps even slightly declined. Tough to imagine but that is what the "data" says. People are spending more time hunting these days, with better equipment and technology at their disposal. Success rates have also declined though from almost 9% to below 5% presumably due to the decrease in mule deer numbers. *There are outliers that appear to coincide with snowfall*

It's not hard to determine why quality deer are becoming more difficult to find with the additional human pressure and decrease in herd numbers. That being said, since 2004 on average ~42% of mule deer harvested are 4 point or better (30.9% up to 56.8% depending on the year). The percentage of 4+ point bucks appear to reflect more on weather patterns than numbers of hunters or days afield.

Go ahead and argue about how hunting bucks during the rut w/ a rifle will impact the population but the bottom line is that does drive population. Deer trapping here in Region 1 has shown that over 90% of mule deer does are being bred every year. The issue is not how many bucks are being shot, it's the fact that the survival rate on does is not high enough to sustain a stable population let alone grow the herd. The loss of suitable habitat and increase in predators, particularly lions, are the issues that must be addressed (in NW MT at least). I understand this may not be the problem in the eastern part of the state and I don't mean to discount my neighbors out there, I just haven't hunted Eastern MT in a long time. If FWP is killing too many does out there then let your local biologist and Helena know what you think of the management plans. From my experience the majority biologists are more than happy to discuss things and are genuinely interested in what hunters have to say.

 

[Erict]

Come home to hunt is capped at 500 tags and it has never sold out

HTH appear to have "sold out" in 2020 and 2021 and are 500 total as shown in MT 2012-2021 NR Combo License stats

 

[PablitoPescador]

HTH appear to have "sold out" in 2020 and 2021 and are 500 total as shown in MT 2012-2021 NR Combo License stats

Guess I’m not seeing it. HTH totals appear to be 480 for both 2020 and 2021. What am I missing?

 

[Erict]

Guess I’m not seeing it. HTH totals appear to be 480 for both 2020 and 2021. What am I missing?

I was wrong. I thought I added them to 500. Thanks.

 

[Cascade340]

Non res here. Keeping a rifle deer hunt open to general public during the rut is absolutely crazy to me. Never hunted Montana but sounds alot like it needs to be cut off Oct 31 and buck tags limited during the rut like every other place in the US

Just because every other state is doing this makes it the right thing to do? Is there data that shows it has drastically improved the mule deer populations in other states? If the doe’s are getting bred what is so crazy about it? Montana has been managing like this for a while and the population numbers have been sustainable. And there are plenty of states that don’t have many rut hunts with struggling mule deer numbers.

In response to other posts,
If people are wanting to shoot a bigger buck then they probably should go elsewhere in the state or spend more time further from the road. There are plenty of big bucks to be had if you are willing to put in the work. Just because you didn’t see the same amount of deer in your normal spot doesn’t mean the population numbers are down. That’s just hunting. Deer move around and hunting pressure changes things. Where I was in eastern MT this year there was plenty of deer around. The overall population data is what we should base our management on. Not wether or not a guy sees 180” buck from his side by side on a given year. If populations are declining then we should first look at number of doe tags and predator control vs just limiting opportunity for hunters. Every other state that has gone down this road seems to keep limiting opportunities more and more.

 

[Formidilosus]

I don’t want a special just for me season between the resident growth and the weapon advancement just seems crazy to hunt the entire rut for 80% of this state with a general tag. Region 6 had a small decline in population of 40% this year according to fish and game. We are a couple bad winters from our deer really being in a bad way, but let’s not do anything about it now and we can wait another 10 years while things continue to decline

So you don’t want to limit the amount of deer taken, you just don’t want it to happen during the rut? Again, how does shooting bucks during the rut (versus October or December, or during the rut with your special seasons) materially effect “herd health”? Not “big buck health”, herd health and numbers?

 

[Spoonbill]

Non res here. Keeping a rifle deer hunt open to general public during the rut is absolutely crazy to me. Never hunted Montana but sounds alot like it needs to be cut off Oct 31 and buck tags limited during the rut like every other place in the US

You sure about this? Most states east of the Mississippi river have their rifle season during the rut as does Texas. I really don’t see the disadvantage to having a rifle season for bucks during the rut outside of people thinking it’s not “fair”.

 

[deadwolf]

HTH appear to have "sold out" in 2020 and 2021 and are 500 total as shown in MT 2012-2021 NR Combo License stats

Man, the more I look at that spreadsheet, the more I scratch my head.


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[cgasner1]

What cracks me up about this is the amount of you can’t shoot a trophy buck from the sxs and to get over it and hunt harder. Yet I would like to see the weapons restrictions changed so that people can’t shoot deer that are so dumb from the rut you can honk at them before shooting them.


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[Formidilosus]

What cracks me up about this is the amount of you can’t shoot a trophy buck from the sxs and to get over it and hunt harder. Yet I would like to see the weapons restrictions changed so that people can’t shoot deer that are so dumb from the rut you can honk at them before shooting them.

So no Turkey season in spring? And archery elk season not during the rut correct? And no bear hunting during late may and June? And no archery, muzzleloading or any other special season during the rut, correct?